Terrible Album Remixes

[phantom_power]

I am in the minority in really liking REM's "first shit album" Monster but the 2019 remix on the 25th anniversary set is truly dire. It smooths off all the interesting corners off an album that is pretty much all interesting corners and just leaves a smooth globe of half-arsed songwriting and lyrics.

What other remixes shit all over the legacy of albums?

[non capisco]

Fucking hell, they've managed to actually make Monster worse?!

[Egyptian Feast]

The CD version of Frank Zappa's Cruisin' With Reuben And The Jets replaces the original bass and drums with new recordings from the 1980s which sound completely shit and pointless, considering the album was meant to sound like authentic 1950s doo-wop right up until the guitar solo in the final track. It's an album that should only ever be heard on the original vinyl or MP3 rips of that version.

He did the same with We're Only In For The Money, though at least that version hasn't been available since the mid-90s reissues.

[Rizla]

I prefer the original mixes of L.A.M.F and Raw Power to the various 80s and 90s remixes I've heard. I was sort of blown away by the new Abbey Road mixes but I don't necessarily approve of them, I mean where does one stop with these things? Didn't Giles Martin "fix" the duff bass notes on Fixing A Hole?

Yeah, and those the 80s Mothers reissues are horrible.

[Famous Mortimer]

The Residents re-recorded...maybe "Third Reich n Roll"?...for a DVD release and you could pick the soundtrack you wanted. Original sounded great, obviously, but the new version sounded like a really awful session band, a session band who also hated the Residents.

[Egyptian Feast]

The Residents re-recorded...maybe "Third Reich n Roll"?...for a DVD release and you could pick the soundtrack you wanted. Original sounded great, obviously, but the new version sounded like a really awful session band, a session band who also hated the Residents.

That sounds like the Icky Flix DVD. They re-recorded everything on it, but you could choose the soundtrack. I don't think I ever bothered with the new versions, though I saw them play along to the DVD live when it was released back in 2001. It was a great gig, but I certainly didn't feel like they'd improved anything.

[Famous Mortimer]

That sounds like the Icky Flix DVD. They re-recorded everything on it, but you could choose the soundtrack. I don't think I ever bothered with the new versions, though I saw them play along to the DVD live when it was released back in 2001. It was a great gig, but I certainly didn't feel like they'd improved anything.

Thanks for that, and I knew I should have looked it up beforehand. That new soundtrack for Icky Flix was really awful, like they'd forgotten why all those songs were so good.

[Egyptian Feast]

Thanks for that, and I knew I should have looked it up beforehand. That new soundtrack for Icky Flix was really awful, like they'd forgotten why all those songs were so good.

I recall talking to a few fans who were meeting at a local pub before the gig and none of them seemed to be into the old stuff at all, or even that familiar with it, which I found bizarre. One even slighted the glorious Meet The Residents when I brought it up as my favourite. Perhaps that's who the re-recordings were aimed at.

[Pauline Walnuts]

The CD version of Frank Zappa's Cruisin' With Reuben And The Jets replaces the original bass and drums with new recordings from the 1980s which sound completely shit and pointless, considering the album was meant to sound like authentic 1950s doo-wop right up until the guitar solo in the final track. It's an album that should only ever be heard on the original vinyl or MP3 rips of that version.

He did the same with We're Only In For The Money, though at least that version hasn't been available since the mid-90s reissues.

I think, and I have no evidence to back this up, and it's not true, he did that to stop the bass player (convicted wrong un') and drummer getting any performance rights money off those albums.

[Egyptian Feast]

I think, and I have no evidence to back this up, he did that to stop the bass player (convicted wrong un') and drummer getting any performance rights money off those albums.

Ha, interesting theory! Well, the 'official' version was that the master tapes were damaged, but subsequent CD reissues of Money have the original bass & drums and there was a recent-ish box-set of the Reuben sessions, so the damage can't have been irrevocable.

He made a LOT of changes to his back catalogue when he reissued them on CD, so much so the original vinyl releases are highly prized. Some of the decisions are truly mind-boggling, like snipping 'Willie The Pimp Part 2' from Fillmore East - June '71 (it's one of the best bits on the album!) and shitting up the gorgeous instrumental LP Sleep Dirt with new, completely unnecessary vocals. Clearly not the greatest judge of his own work.

[Pauline Walnuts]

Ha, interesting theory! Well, the 'official' version was that the master tapes were damaged, but subsequent CD reissues of Money have the original bass & drums and there was a recent-ish box-set of the Reuben sessions, so the damage can't have been irrevocable.

He made a LOT of changes to his back catalogue when he reissued them on CD, so much so the original vinyl releases are highly prized. Some of the decisions are truly mind-boggling, like snipping 'Willie The Pimp Part 2' from Fillmore East - June '71 (it's one of the best bits on the album!) and shitting up the gorgeous instrumental LP Sleep Dirt with new, completely unnecessary vocals. Clearly not the greatest judge of his own work.

I think that Willie the Pimp was from a difference performance than part 1, which is why it was on two sides, because they couldn't make it match up for the expected edit where they flowed into one when it went to CD. I didn't know they'd just dropped the second part for the CD.

[Johnny Textface]

Yep the Monster remix is a bit gash but found it an interesting curio. Why would you take out the tremolo guitar from the chorus of Kenneth? His excuse was something like "it was an overdub", so the backwards guitar lead wasn't? The King of Comedy is truly terrible.

You can compare them here if you wish:
Explore R.E.M.'s Monster 25 by A/B'ing the original mix with the 2019 complete album remix by original producer Scott Litt. https://monster25.remhq.com/

I don't know much about The Manic Street Preachers but didn't one of their albums get remixed for the American market?

[phantom_power]

The worst affected is Let Me In which has gone from an anguished scream to a muddy dirge

[a duncandisorderly]

Ha, interesting theory! Well, the 'official' version was that the master tapes were damaged, but subsequent CD reissues of Money have the original bass & drums and there was a recent-ish box-set of the Reuben sessions, so the damage can't have been irrevocable.

He made a LOT of changes to his back catalogue when he reissued them on CD, so much so the original vinyl releases are highly prized. Some of the decisions are truly mind-boggling, like snipping 'Willie The Pimp Part 2' from Fillmore East - June '71 (it's one of the best bits on the album!) and shitting up the gorgeous instrumental LP Sleep Dirt with new, completely unnecessary vocals. Clearly not the greatest judge of his own work.

didn't he, in his latter years, decide to do what jeff lynne has since done with the ELO classics, & re-record them all on his synclavier out of either perfectionism or else diddling the band out of money?

[Egyptian Feast]

I think that Willie the Pimp was from a difference performance than part 1, which is why it was on two sides, because they couldn't make it match up for the expected edit where they flowed into one when it went to CD. I didn't know they'd just dropped the second part for the CD.

Ahh! That makes sense. I think it's been reinstated to the latest CD reissue, presumably as a separate track as on the original LP with the fades masking the mismatch. My CD (first Zappa album I ever bought, fact fans!) is the Zappa Records version and I never heard the missing track until I found a battered old vinyl copy years later. 'Do You Like My New Car?' comes in really abruptly after the fade-out on 'Willie The Pimp Part 1', but that's still what I expect to hear next.

What does everyone think of Tony Visconti's new version of Lodger? I like some of the new versions, but he fucked up 'Boys Keep Swinging' so it was a waste of time in my book.

[Egyptian Feast]

didn't he, in his latter years, decide to do what jeff lynne has since done with the ELO classics, & re-record them all on his synclavier out of either perfectionism or else diddling the band out of money?

Not really. He mostly used the synclavier to compose new material. I can't think of any re-recordings of classic songs, certainly not the crowd-pleasing stuff, though he may have re-recorded some of his classical pieces that he felt weren't played accurately enough by various orchestras (the London Symphony Orchestra particularly annoyed him and he unsurprisingly blamed booze and unions).

[a duncandisorderly]

Not really. He mostly used the synclavier to compose new material. I can't think of any re-recordings of classic songs, certainly not the crowd-pleasing stuff, though he may have re-recorded some of his classical pieces that he felt weren't played accurately enough by various orchestras (the London Symphony Orchestra particularly annoyed him and he unsurprisingly blamed booze and unions).

yes, I'd read of his disenchantment with orchestral musicians... I thought I'd remembered something else- have to get the book out again.

[purlieu]

Not getting the purpose of the Monster remix at all. It's not a top-tier R.E.M. album, but even the lesser songs feel like they at least have a purpose covered in all the guitar scuzz. Making it sound more polished doesn't fit the feel of the bulk of the tracks in the slightest. The most ludicrous thing is this isn't just an interesting curio in the 6-disc boxset, but it was chosen as the second disc in the standard expanded version, over the demos and live tracks. Utterly daft.

I don't know much about The Manic Street Preachers but didn't one of their albums get remixed for the American market?

The Holy Bible had a different mix for the US, and it's frequently considered to be the better version. It's maybe slightly less raw, but more atmospheric and with more emphasis on the rhythm section. I definitely prefer it, and have mostly only listened to it since it became easily available on the deluxe editions of the album.


One thing that fucks me off is that the above versions are largely considered to be 'alternate' mixes, while occasionally you get a remix that actually supplants the original. Mike Oldfield is a fucker for this. His first three albums, widely regarded as his best, are now impossible to buy in their original mixes, unless you buy the deluxe edition downloads. The physical and standard digital editions of Tubular Bells, Hergest Ridge and Ommadawn are all remixed by Mike in the 2000s. Given that I'd had the original albums for about 15 years when I first heard them, it's impossible to make a properly objective judgment on them, but they certainly don't improve the originals, and it just seems like pointless revisionism. Again, if they're presented as bonus discs on deluxe editions, I can understand, but by replacing the originals it's just bollocks. Oldfield already did it once by using a stereo mixdown of his quad mix of Hergest Ridge as the go-to version of the album from 1978 onwards.

Tangerine Dream have the even worse legacy of Edgar just going back over old material and putting new synth and guitar parts over the original mixes and calling them "new recordings". They're not new, Edgar, you've just thrown a techno beat and some very dated synth preset over it. Not an issue when the album is labelled Phaedra 2005 or Tangram 2008, but the three Melrose Years albums have been out of print for a long time, and Edgar bought back the rights, meaning for the last 15-or-so years, the only versions in print have been these cluttered "re-recordings".

[Famous Mortimer]

That sort of thing makes me wonder how much of the music I love from that era is a result of the technology available, rather than the musicians. Like, if Edgar Froese had had all digital recording and infinite tracks and that, would he have made music as shite as every digital-recording-era Tangerine Dream record?

[Epic Bisto]

One thing that fucks me off is that the above versions are largely considered to be 'alternate' mixes, while occasionally you get a remix that actually supplants the original. Mike Oldfield is a fucker for this. His first three albums, widely regarded as his best, are now impossible to buy in their original mixes, unless you buy the deluxe edition downloads. The physical and standard digital editions of Tubular Bells, Hergest Ridge and Ommadawn are all remixed by Mike in the 2000s. Given that I'd had the original albums for about 15 years when I first heard them, it's impossible to make a properly objective judgment on them, but they certainly don't improve the originals, and it just seems like pointless revisionism. Again, if they're presented as bonus discs on deluxe editions, I can understand, but by replacing the originals it's just bollocks. Oldfield already did it once by using a stereo mixdown of his quad mix of Hergest Ridge as the go-to version of the album from 1978 onwards.

I prefer the 'quad' mix of Hergest Ridge.  This is the version I'm more familiar with.  There's so much space and it's wonderfully atmospheric, like a foggy morning, and it was always a headscratcher that the album got slagged off at the time.  When I had a chance to listen to the original mix I understood why it had a bad rep - it was way too cluttered and unnecessarily busy.  Where most people tend to add stuff for a remix, he actually took stuff out and it made such a difference.

[Absorb the anus burn]

That sort of thing makes me wonder how much of the music I love from that era is a result of the technology available, rather than the musicians. Like, if Edgar Froese had had all digital recording and infinite tracks and that, would he have made music as shite as every digital-recording-era Tangerine Dream record?

Interesting....

I came her to mention the versions of Aqua and Epsilon that Froese released in the new millennium which are truly awful. Remixed, recorded and ruined.

[Bently Sheds]

Heaven Born and Ever Bright by forum favourites Cardiacs sounded well shit when it first came out, but later on they re-mixed it to make it better and it just made it worse. So much so that the original Beggars Banquet releases are quite sought after by fans (which is a fact i just made up in my head).

The Fountain of Salmacis by Genesis was remixed for some Anthology box set. The final bit with Steve Hackett's fantastic soaring guitar solo (which made Peter Gabriel comment that it was the exact point that he felt that - with Hackett - they were at last a proper band) was basically smothered by Tony Banks slyly sliding the Mellotron faders on the mixing desk right up whilst no-one was looking so they blotted everything out. They're CHORDS, Tone. Anyone can play chords. Let's hear the really good guitarist do his bit to cement his place in the band, eh?

[phantom_power]

What does everyone think of Tony Visconti's new version of Lodger? I like some of the new versions, but he fucked up 'Boys Keep Swinging' so it was a waste of time in my book.

I haven't heard it but probably will now I am more familiar with the original version. I liked the Harry Maslin remixes for Station to Station

[Glebe]

Hasn't a remix been included with the Monster anniversary reissue because Scott Litt wasn't happy with his own original mix?

Saw REM at Slane Castle on the Monster tour in '95, actually. About 19, I was. Oasis supported, among others.

[Egyptian Feast]

Heaven Born and Ever Bright by forum favourites Cardiacs sounded well shit when it first came out, but later on they re-mixed it to make it better and it just made it worse. So much so that the original Beggars Banquet releases are quite sought after by fans (which is a fact i just made up in my head).

They had original vinyl copies for sale on the website until a few years back. My copy had spots of mould all over the cover from presumably being stored in someone's attic or basement. Genuine Cardiac mould. If I ever sell it on eBay (I won't), that will be listed as a feature.

[SteveDave]

What does everyone think of Tony Visconti's new version of Lodger? I like some of the new versions, but he fucked up 'Boys Keep Swinging' so it was a waste of time in my book.

I was all in until "Boys Keep Swinging". Now I've decided I prefer the murk of the "rushed" original.

[Phil_A]

Heaven Born and Ever Bright by forum favourites Cardiacs sounded well shit when it first came out, but later on they re-mixed it to make it better and it just made it worse. So much so that the original Beggars Banquet releases are quite sought after by fans (which is a fact i just made up in my head)

There were boring legal reasons for that remastering, at the time the entity formerly known as Rough Trade Records held the rights to the original master necessitating a brand new one had to be done before the band could re-release it on their own label. No idea how the new version ended up so bad, but my guess is they rushed it in order to get it out in time for the grand reissuing of their back catalogue in 1995. Every subsequent reissue has used the Rough Trade mix, which is far from perfect, but at least it isn't completely brickwalled.

I get the sense some in the Cardiacs camp would be keen to have a go at remixing the old albums but don't want to tread on Tim's toes by doing it without his involvement.

[Petey Pate]

The CD version of Frank Zappa's Cruisin' With Reuben And The Jets replaces the original bass and drums with new recordings from the 1980s which sound completely shit and pointless, considering the album was meant to sound like authentic 1950s doo-wop right up until the guitar solo in the final track. It's an album that should only ever be heard on the original vinyl or MP3 rips of that version.

The original vinyl mix was officially released in 2010 on the compilation Greasy Love Songs. I don't know why they kept the 80s version on all the subsequent CD reissues of Reuben and the Jets though, including the most recent remasters which are the copies used for Spotify, which did revert Sleep Dirt and Hot Rats to their original vinyl mixes. There was no need to re-record anything, as the master tapes weren't damaged, it was just done because Zappa insisted on it. The bassist who played on the overdubs tried to talk him out of it, to no avail.

If you really want to nerd out on the minutia of differences between Zappa vinyls and CDs, this website provides a very extensive guide.

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/index.html

[Bently Sheds]

I get the sense some in the Cardiacs camp would be keen to have a go at remixing the old albums but don't want to tread on Tim's toes by doing it without his involvement.

Thanks for clearing that up. It would be cool if Steven Wilson had a pop at the whole back catalogue, seeing as he's a fan of Tim and a highly respected remixing dude.

[purlieu]

I prefer the 'quad' mix of Hergest Ridge.  This is the version I'm more familiar with.  There's so much space and it's wonderfully atmospheric, like a foggy morning, and it was always a headscratcher that the album got slagged off at the time.  When I had a chance to listen to the original mix I understood why it had a bad rep - it was way too cluttered and unnecessarily busy.  Where most people tend to add stuff for a remix, he actually took stuff out and it made such a difference.

I actually agree here, although it might be at least partly due to familiarity. But yes, the original sounds like a rough mix, some bits too low in the mix, some bits way too high, just a bit of a mess.

The 2000s remixes are weird, though, as they're more than just fiddling with the levels, the actual structures are different, with some sections extended. These are effectively compositional changes and thus going well beyond what a remix - in this sense - usually entails.

Interesting....

I came her to mention the versions of Aqua and Epsilon that Froese released in the new millennium which are truly awful. Remixed, recorded and ruined.

Oh yes, I forgot about those. They're done in the exact same way as the Melrose Years albums (Edgar thinks adding loads of new sounds on top will somehow improve them), right down to them pretty much replacing the originals in terms of what's for sale*.

That sort of thing makes me wonder how much of the music I love from that era is a result of the technology available, rather than the musicians. Like, if Edgar Froese had had all digital recording and infinite tracks and that, would he have made music as shite as every digital-recording-era Tangerine Dream record?

There's some really good stuff from the digital era (a few of my favourite TD records are actually from this century), the real problem is Edgar never had much sense of quality control: when TD were working as a band, and having to pass things through a decent label, they remained largely consistent in quality. Once it became Froese & Son in 1990 and they started working with new age labels, and especially once he set up his own label, TD just became a production line of samey, bland electronica. Tellingly, the good moments in the last 15 years were almost all at points he was working closely with Thorsten Quaeschning and, later, Ulrich Schnauss, who undoubtedly helped rein in his worst impulses (temporarily, at least). Edgar was only as good as those he was working with, so I reckon with modern gear, the classic Virgin Years line-up would still have made some excellent music.


*the only way to buy the originals new now is on this box set which, in order to use as few discs as possible, ends up with the albums split uncomfortable over discs. You fancy listening to the absorbing and engaging Epsilon in Malaysian Pale? Put in disc one, skip to track 6. Once that's finished, put in disc 2 for the second track. Make sure to stop the CD before Ages starts two tracks later! Utter bollocks.