Author Topic: The Tory Book of Lies  (Read 9509 times)

Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #150 on: November 08, 2019, 02:38:24 PM »
lol at the aircraft carrier in her banner. #BeViolentAtSea

She is the MP for Portsmouth, where that aircraft carrier is being fitted out. There are many other reasons to hate her than that

NJ Uncut

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #151 on: November 08, 2019, 02:58:47 PM »

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #152 on: November 08, 2019, 06:31:09 PM »
Quote
A video has emerged showing Boris Johnson telling concerned business people in Northern Ireland that they will not have to fill in any forms to export goods to Great Britain.

The Prime Minister states: “There will be no forms, no checks, no barriers of any kind. You will have unfettered access.”

But his claim is at odds with comments from the Brexit secretary last month and from Michael Gove this morning, as well as the government’s official assessment of the Withdrawal Agreement...

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-johnson-contradicts-own-cabinet-on-northern-ireland-trade

Paul Calf

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #153 on: November 08, 2019, 06:33:27 PM »
Lie, lie, lie until no-one knows what the difference is between lies and truth, or is even sure whether there is one.

Fortunately, this didn't work for Trump.

Oh wait.

Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #154 on: November 08, 2019, 07:15:25 PM »

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #155 on: November 08, 2019, 07:32:42 PM »
TROPE

I bet there are people who’ll claim the long nose is an anti-Semitic gesture, even though Johnson isn’t Jewish.

MiddleRabbit

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #156 on: November 08, 2019, 11:42:15 PM »
Re: UC, here’s my thoughts - just as there’s a strong tendency in the right-wing press to pretend everyone on benefits is living the life of riley, at the bookies every morning/watching chat shows on their 50 inch TV, so there’s an equal tendency in the left-wing press to behave as though everyone on UC is literally on the brink of starvation. The media as a whole tends toward hysteria. It sells papers; it drives traffic. The reality (for most people) probably lies somewhere between the two. Most people on benefits are neither living it up nor dying in a corner.

Now, there are obviously nonetheless cases where the latter is true. In those instances, if the papers really are a fourth estate and not just a money-printing business, they have a moral duty to report on them. At the same time, there’s a corresponding duty to help people understand that most people are navigating the system just fine. A. Because the people on the ground sorting out the payments deserve the recognition. And B. It actively discourages people from using the system because people come away with the impression that adequate help isn’t available.

Personally speaking, there’s not a day that goes by where I don’t thank my lucky stars I was born in the UK. I think it’s amazing we have a benefits system at all because, if you’re unemployed in places like China/South America/India, you’re pretty much left to your own devices - and no one is going to bother to report your plight either.

My wife works full time for Citizens' Advice as a crisis worker. There are four in Hull.  All of her work is related to sorting out people who are on the brink of homelessness as a result of UC either being denied, not being issued on time or being issued insubstantially.

She's in at hearings for UC a couple of times a week because assessors have incorrectly denied claimants.  They are, without exception, overturned.

Many of these people evidently have mental and/or physical disabilities who would have been in some form of full time care before most of those places were closed down and now it's 'Care In The Community'.  Those people are often the most vulnerable in society and suffer further.  A lot of the time, they don't take advice because they're not rational.  One chap tried to burn his house down a few months ago, a rented semi that damaged next door, a young family narrowly escaping.  Such people can't cope and don't have the capacity to exist reasonably in society and are left to get in with it, on their own, to everybody else's cost.

Regardless of which, people are always worse off on UC than on the previous system, which some people are still on.  Those people tend to be aggressively 'encouraged' to move onto UC.

I teach in the poorest ward in the third poorest region in Britain.  A lot of the kids are carers for disabled parents, because the poorest places are where disabled people tend to end up.  A lot of kids are also the main carers for younger siblings.  These kids are similarly affected by UC being unfit for purpose, so I witness the detrimental effect it has on the children of those who suffer most.  And it's not too lovely.

Other kids have parents who are the ones the right wing press would have a field day with.  Several generations of never being employed ever, stay at home getting stoned, pissed, smacked up and selling illegal items, fenced or drugs because UC doesn't pay them enough for their 'needs'.  Some of these people don't give a fuck about their kids and have plenty of them.  Again, the older kids are de facto parents.  However, these people would have worked on the docks or in factories and now there's not much call for unskilled labour.  And a certain portion of society is unskilled and incapable of developing any.  What are these people going to do?  Work in shops?  They're all closing down.  What it leads to is crime.

The housing estates that these people live in are similarly fucking horrible places.  Where I work looks like I imagine Poland did in 1973.  As they are undesirable places to live, they are also cheap and consequently where the Eastern Europeans are housed.  As they tend to send their money home where it worth a lot more, they can undercut the local 'native' population's wages while living next door to them, leading to the attitude that it's the EU that's the problem and they don't give a shit about getting a deal because, as far as they're concerned, there'd be more opportunities for them - legal and illegal - if they were 'all sent back to where they came from'.  Not UC, no, but as most UC is issued to people who are 'in work' (1 hour per fortnight, isn't it?) they believe these people are getting UC as well, whether they are or not.  People on the brink of homelessness who see Polish people moving in next door tend not to look much further and that's how you make the working classes right wing.

So, from my second hand experience, I'd say that I can see how you might draw the conclusions you have and, I daresay some people on UC can cope with it and suffer less pissing about but not necessarily legally.  Which costs everybody more money as well. 

However, the problem is that UC has had serious consequences on the most vulnerable people in society.  It's stinginess has increased crime, again primarily against other people who can't afford it.

I suppose in some countries, these people would be dead now.  To be frank, some of the victims in the UK are dead, so maybe we're getting there, eh? 

These are surface of the cuts made to the poorest people in society in orde to placate the right wing press and those people who subscribe to the same mentality.  The overall effect is that everybody suffers due to drastic measures that the sufferers go to in order to cope.  Which has been exacerbated by the death of the manufacturing industry, the high street and the lack of affordable housing.

It's not entirely UC, but a hell of a lot of it is entirely down to that and all of it is down to the Conservative party. 

In short, no, not really.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 12:12:11 AM by MiddleRabbit »

Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #157 on: November 08, 2019, 11:48:26 PM »
I've zero experience of UC, but a friend of mine was in a meeting with the people in Manchester who aid homeless families. And their workload has doubled since UC was brought in round here. Perhaps just a coincidence.

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #158 on: November 11, 2019, 10:50:55 PM »
Quote
Boris Johnson has been accused of U-turning on his fracking ban after the Government opened the door to more shale gas drilling in future.

The Tories announced they would stop all fracking in England at the start of the general election campaign - but just three days later, they quietly issued a document which contradicts that promise, i can reveal.

Civil servants said that "future applications will be considered on their own merits" despite the supposed ban. And they also said there was "considerable merit" in loosening planning laws so local councils would no longer be able to block firms from drilling for shale gas...

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-fracking-ban-u-turn-shale-gas-general-election-921414

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #159 on: November 19, 2019, 09:15:16 PM »
Quote
The Conservatives have been accused of misleading the public after they rebranded their official Twitter account as “factcheckUK” during the televised leaders’ debate and used it to publish anti-Labour posts.

The public have increasingly turned to factchecking websites, such as the independent Full Fact, the BBC’s Reality Check, Channel 4 News’ FactCheck and the Guardian’s Factcheck, to verify claims made by politicians.

During Tuesday night’s debate between Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn, the Conservative party renamed their main media account as “factcheckUK”, changed its logo to hide its political origins, and used it to push pro-Conservative material to the public...

Although the Twitter handle remained as @CCHQPress, all other branding was changed to resemble an independent factchecking outlet, meaning it may not have been immediately apparent to an individual who saw the account’s tweets in their feed that it was a product of Conservative party HQ.

On clicking through, they would have seen a disclaimer that factcheckUK was “fact checking Labour from CCHQ [Conservative campaign headquarters]”.

Full Fact, which is run by a charity, said it had complained to Twitter and said the account should not be allowed to be used in this way while verified. “It is inappropriate and misleading for the Conservative press office to rename their Twitter account ‘factcheckUK’ during this debate. Please do not mistake it for an independent fact checking service.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/19/tories-tweet-anti-labour-posts-under-factcheckuk-brand

Noonling

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #160 on: November 19, 2019, 09:23:31 PM »
Was about to post that. Insane.

Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #161 on: November 19, 2019, 09:26:27 PM »
fact me till i fart

imitationleather

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #162 on: November 19, 2019, 09:37:44 PM »
That is utterly disgraceful.

Buelligan

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #163 on: November 19, 2019, 09:41:54 PM »
Heheh.  How much more disgraceful do they need to be before we get out the pitchforks?

Rich Uncle Skeleton

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #164 on: November 19, 2019, 09:47:29 PM »
are you fucking shitting me

Twitter should block them changing their name during an election or something that's fucking ridiculous.

Cuellar

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #165 on: November 19, 2019, 09:48:45 PM »
Can twitter not just shut down entirely? Surely everyone knows that would be best.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #166 on: November 19, 2019, 10:03:20 PM »
The pit of an infinite void

greencalx

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #167 on: November 19, 2019, 10:07:08 PM »
Hopefully Twitter will ban the account. Clear violation of terms of service.

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #168 on: November 20, 2019, 08:09:51 AM »
Twitter have decided not to do anything this time but will take "decisive corrective action" if something similar happens again.

BlodwynPig

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #169 on: November 20, 2019, 08:12:10 AM »
Twitter have decided not to do anything this time but will take "decisive corrective action" if something similar happens again.

"Twitter have banned the official Labour twitter account due to accusations of anti-semitism, it has been revealed today..."

Norton Canes

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #170 on: November 20, 2019, 09:43:59 AM »
Make them play the next debate behind closed doors

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #171 on: November 20, 2019, 10:46:43 AM »
Good point made by someone on Twitter

https://twitter.com/ParisDaguerre/status/1197050301339111424

Quote
The Tory press office’s rebranding of their Twitter account as #FactCheckuk is more sinister than seems at face value, because it casts doubt on the veracity of all #FactCheck accounts.

Straight out of the Trump playbook

Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #172 on: November 20, 2019, 10:59:40 AM »
I am not sure that is out of any playbook, more an unintended consequence

Norton Canes

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #173 on: November 20, 2019, 11:09:18 AM »
The BBC's Media Editor allaying people's fears:

"It is perhaps arguable that, like the doctored video of Sir Keir Starmer a fortnight ago, the re-branding of CCHQ as a fact-checking service falls into the broad category known as satire"

BlodwynPig

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #174 on: November 20, 2019, 11:11:07 AM »
Come again?


Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #175 on: November 20, 2019, 11:11:33 AM »
“It was banter. Harmless banter.”

Dr Rock

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #176 on: November 20, 2019, 11:33:31 AM »
The BBC's Media Editor allaying people's fears:

"It is perhaps arguable that, like the doctored video of Sir Keir Starmer a fortnight ago, the re-branding of CCHQ as a fact-checking service falls into the broad category known as satire"

To be fair, in full

Quote
It is perhaps arguable that, like the doctored video of Sir Keir Starmer a fortnight ago, the re-branding of CCHQ as a fact-checking service falls into the broad category known as satire.

But that is a stretch. The effect will have been to dupe many unknowing members of the public, who genuinely thought it was a fact-checking service when it gave opinions on Jeremy Corbyn.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #177 on: November 20, 2019, 11:43:49 AM »
seems the bbc are trying to say the fact check uk thing is funny and memes and doesn't matter. all forgotten about by lunchtime.

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #178 on: November 20, 2019, 11:54:03 AM »
People, such as Ralf Little, who are parodying the CCHQ twitter account calling itself factcheck uk are being suspended, apparently. One rule for them and another for the Tories.

Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #179 on: November 20, 2019, 03:55:15 PM »
To be fair, in full


It's not a stretch though. It is fucking ridiculous. What is the satirical intent? The humour? It is clearly misinformation

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