Author Topic: The Tory Book of Lies  (Read 8328 times)

Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2019, 03:18:40 PM »
Yeah, I saw that, Jesus, it's shocking stuff.  I sometimes feel like something's slipped in the cogs of reality.  Like today, story about no houses built, money spent, promises unfulfilled, everyone shrugs.  Story about Rees Mogg not giving a solitary fuck, criticising, the victims of Grenfell, everyone shrugs.  Story about Government suppressing a report into Russian attacks on British elections and referendum, everyone shrugs.  Story about Tory worker and prospective parliamentary candidate undermining a rape trial for a mate and his tory bosses shrugging, everyone shrugs... 

That's just one random day.  Something is wrong.  Very wrong.

Unfortunately, we live in a cruel and uncaring society. We haven't lived through 40 years of race-to-the-bottom Thatcherism by mistake. We've done it because that's what the public at large want. Sure, we could help other people, we could all be better off as a result but that's not as easy and cheap as punishing people less fortunate than ourselves.

That is your biggest hurdle to getting a Labour government this election. People aren't voting Tory, BXP or Lib Dem because they've been tricked. They are voting for those parties because they like what they offer.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2019, 03:22:44 PM »
Balls. They've been brainwashed.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2019, 03:36:44 PM »
Yeah, I saw that, Jesus, it's shocking stuff.  I sometimes feel like something's slipped in the cogs of reality.  Like today, story about no houses built, money spent, promises unfulfilled, everyone shrugs.  Story about Rees Mogg not giving a solitary fuck, criticising, the victims of Grenfell, everyone shrugs.  Story about Government suppressing a report into Russian attacks on British elections and referendum, everyone shrugs.  Story about Tory worker and prospective parliamentary candidate undermining a rape trial for a mate and his tory bosses shrugging, everyone shrugs... 

That's just one random day.  Something is wrong.  Very wrong.

They've always been like this.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2019, 03:39:10 PM »
Tories editing BBC interview to make Keir Starmer look bad. https://twitter.com/BBCDanielS/status/1191732381306277890

With obligatory non-defence from Tory tweeter at the bottom

Christ, what a reply

"I saw this live and this is exactly what happened! I thought you were meant to be impartial working for the BBC"

People are pointing out the unedited video is right there to compare it to and the dickhead's just digging his heels in..

Edit, never mind they've gone and deleted their entire account!

Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2019, 04:18:08 PM »
Baldy sex pervert still making a dick of himself though

https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1191748173800165377?s=19

Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2019, 05:14:06 PM »
Tories editing BBC interview to make Keir Starmer look bad. https://twitter.com/BBCDanielS/status/1191732381306277890

With obligatory non-defence from Tory tweeter at the bottom

Can't Labour use this against the Tories and to their own advantage?  A viral video showing the original footage next to the Tory edit, the message being: you can't trust them not to misrepresent a simple message, how can you trust anything they say?

Anyway, this thing of Labour having to have a united position on Brexit is nonsense - it's not like the Tories did.  A new deal with a referendum attached, and freedom for MPs to campaign on one side or the other is the mature way to handle this.  Why should they even try to pretend that this most divisive issue of our times isn't going to have people on both sides of the argument?

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2019, 05:20:59 PM »
Balls. They've been brainwashed.

No. Thats your fellow countryman on average

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2019, 05:24:55 PM »
Can't Labour use this against the Tories and to their own advantage?  A viral video showing the original footage next to the Tory edit, the message being: you can't trust them not to misrepresent a simple message, how can you trust anything they say?

Both the Tory edit and the original interview are good enough at supporting the prevailing narrative about Labour's position. (And even if they weren't there's a decent chance that the Tory edit, even in the immediate context of contradiction, would reinforce that narrative in the minds of many exposed to it.)

Zetetic

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2019, 05:26:18 PM »
Unfortunately a pile of stats mean nothing to people who vote on personalities or converge around slogans (get Brexit done)

You have to work out how their brain works then fit the argument around it.
Mmm. The facts are only of great use if they can be used to support a sufficiently compelling story that helps people make a different sense out of a lot of their existing beliefs.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2019, 10:56:38 PM »
Unfortunately, we live in a cruel and uncaring society. We haven't lived through 40 years of race-to-the-bottom Thatcherism by mistake. We've done it because that's what the public at large want. Sure, we could help other people, we could all be better off as a result but that's not as easy and cheap as punishing people less fortunate than ourselves.

That is your biggest hurdle to getting a Labour government this election. People aren't voting Tory, BXP or Lib Dem because they've been tricked. They are voting for those parties because they like what they offer.

Isn’t the reality more that lots of people know the Tories are a joke, but see they’re a safe pair of hands, are proven to work, and make a proposition far more attractive than introducing unknowns and outliers into the mix?

Or, put another way, isn’t it more likely that most voters are conservative (in the original sense of the word) than unreconstructed Thatcherites and people just out to be nasty?

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2019, 04:35:15 AM »
A safe pair of hands?

Brother...

BlodwynPig

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2019, 06:47:06 AM »
Safe pair of hands!

A SAFE PAIR OF HANDS!!

Ha. Talk about wool over eyes.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2019, 06:52:28 AM »
Balls. They've been brainwashed.

Correct. That's the insidiousness of the neoliberal lie.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2019, 06:53:31 AM »
the Tories ... are proven to work

CHECK OUT THIS DUNCE

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2019, 08:11:25 AM »
Quote
A series of government advertisements claiming to debunk myths about universal credit has been banned for misleading the public.

The Advertising Standards Agency received 44 complaints about six newspaper adverts and a web page.

The adverts included claims people moved into work faster on universal credit, which "did not accurately reflect the evidence", the ASA said...

ther adverts claimed:

"Myth: you have to wait five weeks to get any money on universal credit. Fact: if you need money, your job centre will urgently pay you an advance."
This again, the ASA concluded, was misleading, saying it was not always made clear enough in the adverts the advance was a loan to be repaid within 12 months, or that the advance payments were not necessarily available immediately.

...And others said:

"Myth: universal credit doesn't work. Fact: it does. People move into work faster on universal credit than they did on the old system."
The ASA said it considered that readers would interpret the wording "move into work faster" to refer to secure ongoing employment, but in fact the 2017 study the claim was based on had included "people who had worked for only a few hours on one occasion during the relevant period"...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50304322

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2019, 08:55:17 AM »
But they've already been seen by thousands, if not millions of people so they've done their job.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2019, 09:10:05 AM »
Isn’t the reality more that lots of people know the Tories are a joke, but see they’re a safe pair of hands, are proven to work, and make a proposition far more attractive than introducing unknowns and outliers into the mix?

Or, put another way, isn’t it more likely that most voters are conservative (in the original sense of the word) than unreconstructed Thatcherites and people just out to be nasty?

What kind of "joke" intentionally undermines a rape trial for a friend?  What kind of "joke" suppresses reports into attacks by other sovereign states on its own democracy?  What kind of "joke" promises homes to young people who cannot get onto the housing ladder, spends £174 million of taxpayer's money in a time of Austerity to get the land and then allows that land to be used for houses that do not fulfill those requirements (expensive houses)?  What kind of privileged uncaring pointless "joke" lolls on the benches of the HoC and sees itself as completely superior and removed from the people that are living and dying needlessly in their care?

This is just a snapshot illustration, one day, of humour from these funny people.

If you think they're a "safe pair of hands", you're a fool, confusing them not screwing you personally over yet for some kind of good intention.  Some kind of decent plan.  They don't give a fuck about you (apart from your vote) any more than they care about all the other millions of anonymous people they damage and destroy.  The thing that's preserved you so far is that you haven't been in their way.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2019, 09:43:15 AM »
Quote
Isn’t the reality more that lots of people know the Tories are a joke, but see they’re a safe pair of hands, are proven to work, and make a proposition far more attractive than introducing unknowns and outliers into the mix?

Or, put another way, isn’t it more likely that most voters are conservative (in the original sense of the word) than unreconstructed Thatcherites and people just out to be nasty?
vote Tory because it makes them feel posh. Also they trust them most to keep out brown people.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2019, 09:47:57 AM »
More on those DWP ads the ASA found to be misleading, which ran in the Metro (that people which a lot of bus companies put in the luggage racks therefore reducing the space for people to put their luggage, and it also slows getting off when people dither about whether to take a paper or not).

Quote
The DWP’s own filings show that £225,000 was paid to the Metro to run ads now declared “misleading”, “unsubstantiated” and “exaggerated”. Almost a quarter of million pounds was taken off us to lie to us...

...Approached for comment, the DWP has not offered even an apology to the public, merely saying it is “disappointed with this decision”. It further claims that “we consulted at length with the ASA as we created the adverts”. I asked the obvious follow-up: how then do you explain the fact that you’ve breached so many of its guidelines? There was no response. Nor was there any response on whether the DWP is running any more ad campaigns on UC, as several sources both in and out of Westminster have claimed to me...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/06/government-universal-credit-deception-asa-taxpayer-funded-features

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2019, 09:50:56 AM »
Wondering if the DWP ads should have their own thread - if so, should I edit my posts in this thread to avoid posting the same thing twice?

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2019, 10:07:03 AM »
I think you could create a separate thread, in line with Neil's guidelines on creating new threads for specific discussions, and leave those interesting posts here.  There are duplicate postings all over this board on various things (where a thing relates to more than one topic of conversation or where people haven't read all of the posts), all perfectly acceptable IMHO.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2019, 10:26:19 AM »
Good idea. I'll do that now.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2019, 06:36:13 PM »

Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2019, 07:03:35 PM »
What is bbc reality check and when did they start doing it. Shouldnt it just be. Journalism

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2019, 07:06:10 PM »
Typical hysteria from the usual quarters  re: my Tories comment.

The fact is, whether it's pallitable or not, all most people want to see is that their bins are collected on time, there's food on the shelves in the supermarket, and that, should they lose their job, there's some kind of safety net in place. That's it. All theses basic elements are there with the Tories. This isn't anything to do with thinking the Tories are good or actively liking them, it's about understanding the thought process of the average functional adult. Most people aren't ideologues. They don't give a shit about Thatcher and probably couldn't even spell 'neoliberalism'. They just want to see the wheels of industry turning and people who can give them a plausible chance at self-betterment. It's really no more complicated than that.

N.B. for the truly thick who need it spelling out: I'm not advocating voting for the Tory party. I'm spelling out why people vote for them. I'll repeat that: I'm spelling out why people vote for them, not making an argument for why they should be in power.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2019, 07:08:00 PM »
Typical hysteria from the usual quarters  re: my Tories comment.

The fact is, whethere it's pallitable or not, all most people want to see is their bins collected on time, there's food on the shelves in the supermarket, and that, should they lose their job, there's some kind of benefits system in place. That's it. All theses basic elements ar ethe Tories. This isn't anything to do with thinking the Tories are good or actively liking them, it's about understanding the thought process of the average functional adult. Most people aren't ideologues.They don't give a shit about Thatcher and probably couldn't even spell 'neoliberalism'. They just want to see the wheels of industry turning and people who can give them a plausible chance at self-betterment. It's really not any more complicated than that.

N.B. for the truly thick who need it spelling out: I'm not advocating voting for the Tory party. I'm spelling out why people vote for them. I'll repeat that: I'm spelling out why people vote for them, not making an argument for why they should be in power.

You haven't got a clue.

Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2019, 07:08:35 PM »
People vote tory to keep their status quo. They have their property and an idiot yappy dog to protect it. I think this Thatcherite appeal is finally starting to crumble though as cuts and inequality hit harder and wider.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2019, 07:10:29 PM »
People vote tory to keep their status quo. They have their property and an idiot yappy dog to protect it. I think this Thatcherite appeal is finally starting to crumble though as cuts and inequality hit harder and wider.

Pretty much @the first part. It’s a conservative impulse in essence - hence the party name.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2019, 07:15:24 PM »
People don't think people aren't going to have their bins collected. Plenty are obsessed with immigration and the 'muslim menace'. Many Tory voters number one reason for voting Tory is they think Labour will give their money to scroungers and migrants.

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Re: The Tory Book of Lies
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2019, 07:15:33 PM »
Isn’t the reality more that lots of people know the Tories are a joke, but see they’re a safe pair of hands, are proven to work, and make a proposition far more attractive than introducing unknowns and outliers into the mix?

Or, put another way, isn’t it more likely that most voters are conservative (in the original sense of the word) than unreconstructed Thatcherites and people just out to be nasty?

Well if they're paying attention to how the original sense of conservatism is now irrelevant, they understand Tory policies and are still voting Tory then they are very obviously pretty nasty people, yeah. 

I'm sure there are people so staggeringly ignorant that the opinions outlined in your first paragraph apply, though.  Just don't think it's particularly useful to dwell on whether it is okay for people to make a silly choice during this once-in-a-generation opportunity to persuade them to make the right one.