Author Topic: Justified (late to the game thread)  (Read 1854 times)

kngen

  • Member
  • **
  • Fighting sleep's deathlike grip
Justified (late to the game thread)
« on: November 06, 2019, 01:28:44 PM »
Just blitzed through six seasons of this in a couple of weeks. It was good, wasn't it? The kind of show Sons of Anarchy could have been if it wasn't written by fucking morons. Or if Pinckney Benedict had written a TV show (although he would have dialled back the obvious neo-Western aspects a bit, as enjoyable as they were, and amped up the Southern Gothic.)

I know Elmore Leonard had an EP credit, but was that just because they used his short story, or did he have any hand in the story arc beyond that?

And between finishing this and The Righteous Gemstones, I need more Walton Goggins in my life. He's great, isn't he? I'll probably go back and watch Vice Principals, although it never really grabbed me after a couple of episodes.

On Halloween, I wore a mesh trucker's hat, drank Maker's Mark and nearly got in a fight with some college kids who were being dicks. I didn't think I'd dressed up that night (I never do), but clearly I was channelling some kind of Harlan County scumbag for the occasion.

Currently looking at house prices in Kentucky.

touchingcloth

  • Member
  • **
  • She is hot in the arse.
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2019, 01:29:46 PM »
Late? You could say you're justified and ancient.

kngen

  • Member
  • **
  • Fighting sleep's deathlike grip
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2019, 01:36:14 PM »
Har!

Funcrusher

  • Been shot up more times than Tom Mix
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2019, 01:37:30 PM »
It's totally ace and majorly underrated. I'm a big Leonard fan and it absolutely does his writing justice.

Old Nehamkin

  • Dance, Jimmy!
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2019, 01:42:43 PM »
It rules.

Old Nehamkin

  • Dance, Jimmy!
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2019, 01:46:50 PM »
Love it when Boyd Crowder is like:

WELL WELL WELL, AS I LIVE AND BREATHE,
RAAAAYLAN GIVENS!
TO WHAT DO I OWE THIS UN-EX-PECCCTED PLEASURE


kngen

  • Member
  • **
  • Fighting sleep's deathlike grip
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2019, 02:10:54 PM »
Not sure when I became aware of Dickie Bennett's singular physical presence, but when I did, I knew never to take my eyes off the screen when he popped up. What a performance!




Neomod

  • Oh my genitals | I'm a janitor
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2019, 04:01:06 PM »
Yeah, I re-watched the lot earlier this year. Also fun spotting the ex Deadwood alumni.

Mister Six

  • Half-masted, bass-boosted, sling-backed
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2019, 05:10:48 PM »
I think Leonard outright wrote a couple of episodes, didn't he?

Anyway, yeah, a fantastic show. I've said it before but I love how every character, even one-scene exposition monkeys like a bank clerk or a secretary will have a personality. Nobody's just there to deliver a line and walk off.

The season that opened with the parachutist was weak, but I appreciate them trying something different, and even the worst season of Justified is packed with gems.

kngen

  • Member
  • **
  • Fighting sleep's deathlike grip
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2019, 06:05:53 PM »
The season that opened with the parachutist was weak, but I appreciate them trying something different, and even the worst season of Justified is packed with gems.

Yeah, that one never quite held together, did it? I don't think I fully understood everything that went on in that one. Why was everyone so desperate for the bag when there were no drugs in it?

BeardFaceMan

  • Safely ensconced on top of the bathroom cabinet
    • mixes'n'mashes
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2019, 08:50:29 PM »
I need more Walton Goggins in my life.

Then you should watch The Shield if you haven't seen it, it's pretty bloody ace. And Goggins is fantastic in it.

Quote
He's great, isn't he?

He really is.

Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2019, 10:38:49 PM »
I read somewhere that Boyd was originally supposed to die in the first episode, but the producers liked Goggins' performance so much they had it rewritten.

I get the feeling that Goggins' raised profile is the only pop cultural impact the show really had. Well deserved by him (justified, you might say) but it's a bit of a shame that the show as a whole never seemed to catch on as much as it could/should have. I guess it was never as sensational as Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad, but it could be just as good as they ever were.

kngen

  • Member
  • **
  • Fighting sleep's deathlike grip
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2019, 12:11:35 AM »
Then you should watch The Shield if you haven't seen it, it's pretty bloody ace. And Goggins is fantastic in it.

He really is.

Oh I have. I had no idea he was in Justified until a couple of months ago, which was what made me finally get round to watching it. But yeah, he's great in The Shield - that bit with Lem. Oh man ….

Mister Six

  • Half-masted, bass-boosted, sling-backed
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2019, 05:18:19 AM »
And a similar thing happened with the Shield - the network wanted to minimise Goggins (and the guy who played Lem, IIRC) but the producers pushed for him to remain prominent.

Moribunderast

  • What is your place in my glorification?
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 07:57:24 AM »
I think it can be argued Justified had the best ending (or at least best ending scene) of any of the big dramas of this golden TV era. There's been a few but it's always the one I think back to.

Mister Six

  • Half-masted, bass-boosted, sling-backed
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2019, 01:06:15 PM »
I think The Shield had the absolute best ending, I think, but I dunno if that was pre-Golden Age.

kngen

  • Member
  • **
  • Fighting sleep's deathlike grip
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2019, 02:33:38 PM »
I think The Shield had the absolute best ending, I think, but I dunno if that was pre-Golden Age.

I enjoyed it, but it felt like a bit of purgatorial thing that was already familiar: 'I asked for spaghetti with marinara sauce. They gave me noodles with ketchup'

Agree with Moribunderast. The ending, which is still swilling around my brain, had a lovely symmetry and emotional heft that rounded off things perfectly.

kngen

  • Member
  • **
  • Fighting sleep's deathlike grip
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2019, 03:25:58 PM »
Another thing I enjoyed: Dewey Crow, like Freddie Starr's Hitler in his boxers, combat boots and swastika tattoos on full display, constantly having his sexy fun time ruined by people bursting into the caravan of love. It was like a Viz comic strip come to life.

Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2019, 05:32:00 PM »
I stopped watching around season 2 or 3 because I lost the DVR that it was recorded on. It is all on Amazon now so I have started a rewatch from the start spurred on by this thread. It really is a great series and Olyphant is the perfect Givens, and Walton Goggins is great. Can't wait for (esteemed character actor) Margot Martindale to turn up

robotam

  • Member
  • **
  • 0-1-1-0-1-fun!!
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2019, 11:12:34 PM »
I also watched this all the way through for the first time very recently.
One thing that was helpful was that everyone was constantly referred to by their first and last names. Really drills them into your head. Great names they were too. (Also good acting and fun story)

Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2019, 03:11:01 AM »
got recommended this after blowing through Deadwood in a fortnight, made it two episodes in before i absolutely could not handle the theme song. offensively shit.

just need to psyche myself up for another run. like many others here i loved Goggins in The Righteous Gemstones so his prolonged involvement is definitely of interest.

kngen

  • Member
  • **
  • Fighting sleep's deathlike grip
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2019, 01:30:18 PM »
, made it two episodes in before i absolutely could not handle the theme song. offensively shit.

That's where the 'skip intro' button on Amazon Prime et al really comes into its own

chveik

  • I will monetize your eyeballs
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2019, 01:08:20 AM »
finally watched the lot this year. it is indeed great, and hilarious at times (Dewey Crowe particularly, as mentionned earlier, and that Danny Crowe scene!). 

I think that Tim and Rachel were a bit underused though.

Ant Farm Keyboard

  • 60 percent of the time, it works every time
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2019, 09:38:57 AM »
Elmore Leonard wrote the short story "Fire in the Hole", which was the base for the pilot, except that the producers actually decided to reshoot the ending, to make Boyd Crowder live. As Goggins was already scheduled to shoot Predators in Hawaii, they were only able to get him in a limited capacity during the first season. After the pilot, Leonard served as a consultant on the show (he commented for instance that he had a different hat in mind for Raylan, more porkpie than regular Stetson), and decided to contribute new material, usually stuff he was working on for what turned out to be his last novel, Raylan. For instance, the famous episode involving Dewey Crowe and his kidneys was co-written by Leonard. In Raylan, the book, Boyd Crowder is also alive.

Almost every lead female character on the show was underwritten. Rachel (and it's a pity that Erica Tazel got about as much to do in the first series of The Good Fight) was basically a side character, Nathalie Zea (Winona) decided to leave the main cast after a few seasons (she was credited as a guest star in the episodes she appeared in later seasons) because she considered, quite accurately, that the writers had very little idea what to do with her.

https://twitter.com/nataliezea/status/429808242462445568

Out of the three, only Ava had a really substantial character arc.

That said, between Margo Martindale, Kaitlyn Dever (Loretta), Abby Miller (Ellen May, the hapless prostitute) and Mary Steenburgen, they definitely knew how to write interesting female parts. They even had Carla Gugino to reprise her part of Karen Sisco (the character played by Jennifer Lopez in Out of Sight) from a short-lived TV show, except that Karen didn't want to say her last name because of her divorce (more accurately rights to the full character and her name belonged to Universal).

I don't know why you're so down about season 4, the one with the wild-goose chase, while it was the fifth season that was the show's low point, with a predictable intrigue that moved very slowly and an uncharismatic villain played by Michael Rappaport. In Justified, the even seasons tended to be better than the odd ones.

And, regarding the hat, the scene from the finale where Raylan gets his own hat shot and gets as a trophy the hat from his final victim in the duel, was a way for Graham Yost to finally address Leonard's complaints.

Mister Six

  • Half-masted, bass-boosted, sling-backed
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2019, 12:53:45 PM »
And yet Raylan looked awful in that new hat.

The wild goose chase season felt like a wild goose chase for me, the handsome viewer. Meandering and plodding, with the characters all fretting over a mysterious character whose anonymity meant there was very little sense of investment or stakes in what happened, other than it involved a few characters we'd been watching for a few years.

I really liked Rappaport in that fifth season, and thought he was a great (awful) baddie. Horses for courses.

kngen

  • Member
  • **
  • Fighting sleep's deathlike grip
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2019, 02:18:10 PM »
Rachel (and it's a pity that Erica Tazel got about as much to do in the first series of The Good Fight) was basically a side character

I thought some of her line deliveries were a bit ropy, truth be told. Got to the point when I started to dread her appearing on screen (not quite to the extent of Kelly Macdonald in Boardwalk Empire, but getting there).

Quote
They even had Carla Gugino to reprise her part of Karen Sisco (the character played by Jennifer Lopez in Out of Sight) from a short-lived TV show, except that Karen didn't want to say her last name because of her divorce (more accurately rights to the full character and her name belonged to Universal).

Ah, interesting. I had a feeling there was more substance to that appearance than was immediately obvious. That's quite a neat wee trick.

Quote
An uncharismatic villain played by Michael Rappaport.

I'm with Mister Six – I thought he was a great 'big bad' - and the internalised rage at having to defer to Boyd Crowther was palpable. Created some great tension in their scenes.

phes

  • Member
  • **
  • operating as a shape
Re: Justified (late to the game thread)
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2019, 11:38:23 AM »
Justified is probably my favourite prestige drama and I think it deserves the same reverence as those shows that are considered the best. What it does, it does almost flawlessly. The dialogue is a joy from start to finish, it's sharp and functional but absolutely packed with subtext and information. The supporting cast probably has the highest number of brilliant bit-part/recurring characters I've seen in any show outside of the Simpsons. And the main characters as mentioned are perfect.

Season two is my second least favourite season - definitely not a popular opinion. I find it's the most memorable season and on first watch stuck in my mind as the favourite, but on subsequent rewatches it was so slow to get going that it's as close to being bored as I've ever been watching the show. Conversely, 3 was one of my least favourite, but if forced to pick a favourite now I'd  choose that

Something like 6/1/3, 4, 2, 5
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 11:51:30 AM by phes »