The Nolan Batmen

[popcorn]

I remember thinking The Dark Knight Rises was quite good - had some daft stuff but on the whole another solid Nolan piece. But I've just started watching it again and bloody hell it's got some bizarre shite in it.

Example: Catwoman breaks into Bruce Wayne's safe. Alfred arrives.

BRUCE: We've been robbed.
ALFRED: Why are you dusting for prints?
BRUCE: I'm not. She was.

Why is Alfred asking why Bruce is dusting for prints? They've just been robbed. It's a perfectly reasonable thing for the world's greatest detective to do.

BRUCE: We've been robbed.
ALFRED: Why are you dusting for prints?
BRUCE: ??? Hello? Old man? Do I need to buy you some new Bat-hearing aids? WE'VE JUST BEEN ROBBED

Then in the next scene Bruce is in the batcave running Catwoman's prints through the batcomputer. So he was dusting for prints after all?!

NEXT EXAMPLE: Catwoman apparently fucks up someone's wrist by doing a cartwheel on them. This is possibly the lamest moment I can think of in a modern blockbuster film. It is dazzlingly unconvincing.

I haven't even finished the film yet.

[Old Nehamkin]

I think the dark knight rises is truly mental for a major blockbuster, but in a weirdly subdued way that creeps up on you as you watch it. It's got a kind of surreal, ambient incoherence that underlines every single plot beat and line of dialogue. There are so many bizarre little "hang on a minute..." moments that the whole thing almost starts to feel subversive. Also I've watched the notorious opening scene ten or eleven times and I still can't make any sense of the sequence of events presented, or what the fuck Bane is playing at with that blood transfusion.

[Replies From View]

I didn't mind that third film at the time; I haven't seen it since it was on at the cinemas but I do remember being unsatisfied by the ending.  Was it setting up a continuation of the franchise?  It felt like it.  There was a load of peculiar open-ended stuff about the character who - GASP! - had the nickname Robin somewhat randomly and then the film kind of stopped.  Yeah the music was telling us the film was wrapping everything up and ending, but the movie as a whole seemed to miss that particular memo.

After watching a trilogy I want to feel like a cycle has ended.  There needs to be a satisfying conclusion of an arc there.  If you're not going to do that, then don't pretend you've set out with a specific trilogy in mind and instead keep going with more films in the series.  I enjoyed the Nolan Batman films and I'd have been perfectly happy with the series continuing from that point, even under different directors and with different directors.

[popcorn]

Also I've watched the notorious opening scene ten or eleven times and I still can't make any sense of the sequence of events presented, or what the fuck Bane is playing at with that blood transfusion.

Yes, it's fucking mental. I remember finding it fairly dazzling in the cinema, but under any kind of scrutiny it falls apart. It's utterly senseless. Even the dialogue is mad.

CIA Agent: If I pull that off, would you die?

Bane: It would be extremely painful.

CIA Agent: You're a big guy!

Bane: For you.

It's clear what this exchange is trying to do but it doesn't really work. Every moment in it is contrived and slightly confusing. "I'm a big guy for you."

I do like Bane's weird vocal mannerisms and counter-intuitive RAF poshness, but the way he's so clearly overdubbed is distracting, like a director's commentary from the world's maddest director.

[Replies From View]

Does he mean "to you"?


Not in a Chucklevision sense, I  mean.

[bgmnts]

It's Nolan though; overcomplicated, pretentious,poop drivel.

Except Memento, Memento is ace.

[druss]

Yes, it's fucking mental. I remember finding it fairly dazzling in the cinema, but under any kind of scrutiny it falls apart. It's utterly senseless. Even the dialogue is mad.

It's clear what this exchange is trying to do but it doesn't really work. Every moment in it is contrived and slightly confusing. "I'm a big guy for you."

I do like Bane's weird vocal mannerisms and counter-intuitive RAF poshness, but the way he's so clearly overdubbed is distracting, like a director's commentary from the world's maddest director.

I always took that to mean Bane was just ignoring the other guy and was saying it would be painful for the guy pulling his mask off and not for Bane.

Not that I'm defending it, it's still batshit.

[popcorn]

I always took that to mean Bane was just ignoring the other guy and was saying it would be painful for the guy pulling his mask off and not for Bane.

Not that I'm defending it, it's still batshit.

Yeah that's definitely what's intended. It's just so creaky and daft.

Even the question - "if I take off your mask, will you die?" - is so contrived, such an obvious setup for what they thought was a cool line.

[greenman]

Generally Nolan attempt this strange thing known as "wit" doesn't tend to end well, some of the stuff from Oldman in Begins was so bad it was almost into self parody.

[SavageHedgehog]

I like it just fine but I think it does show the limits of having a "realistic as possible" approach for something like Batman, because you still eventually end up using sub-Filmation bullshit like "hello, I just found the notes from a confessional speech someone was never planning to deliver and I'm going to read them all to you now".

[A Hat Like That]

I like that the ending was an extended riff on the 1960s film

[NJ Uncut]

You can take any segment from the script and it just comes off as hilariously clunky. I've seen it once: I couldn't see past this stilted bollocks the second time.

----

Alfred enters, to find Wayne kneeling at the safe.

                          ALFRED
           Miss Tate was asking to see you
           again.


                          WAYNE
           She's very persistent.

                          ALFRED
           And quite lovely, in case you were
           wondering.

                         

                          WAYNE
           I wasn't.

Bruce Going His Own Way
---

I think I found Catwoman pretty jarring. She refers to herself in the third person, albeit as a girl, a lot. If it had a laugh track, it'd work. She's basically Jimmy from Seinfeld.

CATWOMAN
           Wayne wasn't kidding about a
           'powerful friend'. I sold his
           prints to Daggett. For something
           that doesn't even exist.

                          BATMAN
           I doubt many people get the better
           of you.

                          CATWOMAN
           Hey, when a girl's desperate...
--

BLAKE
           I showed your picture to the
           Congressman and guess what?

                          SELINA
           Don't tell me, still in love?

                          BLAKE
           Head over heels. Pressing charges,
           though.
          Blake lays a police file down with a thump.
           You've made some mistakes, Ms.
           Kyle.

                         

                          SELINA
           Girl's gonna eat.

                          BLAKE
           You have an appetite.

[popcorn]

Catwoman generally reads like a "sassy, sexy female character" as imagined not by horny teenage boys but by robots who have had the idea explained to them but are not programmed to understand their appeal.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

It's clear what this exchange is trying to do but it doesn't really work. Every moment in it is contrived and slightly confusing. "I'm a big guy for you."

This is the first time I've seen anyone express any confusion over that exchange.

[popcorn]

I don't think it's confusing, I know what it's supposed to be, it's just weird. It would be so easy to fix. Have the CIA go just scoff or smirk or do some non-verbal response instead of that weird line. NOLAN

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Alright then. It's the first time anyone has thought it was weird.

[popcorn]

I see. A simple lampoon.

[NJ Uncut]

Catwoman generally reads like a "sassy, sexy female character" as imagined not by horny teenage boys but by robots who have had the idea explained to them but are not programmed to understand their appeal.

Catautomatonwoman. She's a pleasure model.

                          WAYNE
           You think that justifies stealing?

                          SELINA
           I take what I need to from those
           who have more than enough. I don't
           stand on the shoulders of people
           with less.

                          WAYNE
           Robin Hood?

                          SELINA
           I'd do more to help someone than
           most of the people in this room.
           Than you.

                       
                          WAYNE
           Maybe you're assuming too much.

                          SELINA
           Or maybe you're being unrealistic
           about what's really in your pants
           other than your wallet

[popcorn]

I had to check that last line is actually in the film. Bloody hell. This screenplay is the definition of It Just Doesn't Quite Scan.

[Twed]

This is the first time I've seen anyone express any confusion over that exchange.

Yes I have not seen this movie and came to this thread because I thought I had missed something about The Nolan Sisters doing work on a Batman thing, but just reading that it makes perfect sense and is straight from the book of standard tough guy tropes.

[NJ Uncut]

Yes I have not seen this movie and came to this thread because I thought I had missed something about The Nolan Sisters doing work on a Batman thing, but just reading that it makes perfect sense and is straight from the book of standard tough guy tropes.

I'm sure that exchange works better in the film than script but being in the Big Book of Action Movie Clichés isn't a huge positive really.

It all seems so fucking first draft though.

[popcorn]

I'm sure that exchange works better in the film than script

It actually doesn't. The delivery of both actors is really fucking weird, even accounting for the deliberately odd Bane line readings generally. The audio mixing is also bizarre.

I dislike "this was clear to me, so I don't see the problem" arguments. Yes, I also understood it, it's just that It Doesn't Really Scan and could have been easily touched up to make it snappier and less vulnerable to silly alternative interpretations. I think the "if I take off your mask, will you die" line is as bad as the rest of it - the character only asks that question, in that strange stilted way, to set up Bane's response.

And it might seem like a nitpick, but the entire film is full of bits like that, where It Just Doesn't Really Scan.

[Twed]

It's a mainstream movie, they're all just sequences of recognisable sass interspersed with action and sex to keep people engaged. Nothing scans, it's content generated by 24 different writers.

https://twitter.com/nsilverberg/status/1140300647922831361

[Kelvin]

It all seems so fucking first draft though.

That sums the film up, really; a lot of interesting ideas and themes, but none of it fleshed out beyond the initial first pass. As a result, the film's only really entertaining when Bane's on screen - and even then, only because his voice is so genuinely fantastic, not because he's well written or doing anything cool. I'm absolutely certain that the film has only maintained a place in pop culture because Bane was so fun to do impressions of.     

[popcorn]

It's a mainstream movie, they're all just sequences of recognisable sass interspersed with action and sex to keep people engaged.

Oh no - the dreaded "well what did you expect" response.

[Twed]

Sounds like you were expecting it.

[popcorn]

Sounds like you were expecting it.

This sounds cool but Does Not Quite Scan.

[chveik]

https://twitter.com/nsilverberg/status/1140300647922831361

haha, that's great

[chveik]

I'm absolutely certain that the film has only maintained a place in pop culture because Bane was so fun to do impressions of.   

love the Gelman one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4F_9ios4jU

[rasta-spouse]

And it might seem like a nitpick, but the entire film is full of bits like that, where It Just Doesn't Really Scan.

How do you feel when watching anything by Aaron Sorkin?