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Green Party Party

Started by The Boston Crab, November 12, 2019, 06:32:58 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Jasha

Quote from: ZoyzaSorris on November 12, 2019, 08:51:13 AM
I'm not against the Greens at all. I used to be a Green member and voter. Their recent dallying with the Dems, helping to detoxify that neoliberal anti-environmental entity, has been pretty unforgivable. And right now, when Labour actually represents a genuinely radical new green hope, and the alternative is the exact opposite, it is sheer indulgence. And probably basically for those who don't want any actual change but want to feel slightly like they aren't part of the problem. But they are.

In my neck of the woods last time out the incumbent Tory with 50% Labour 40% and Green 1.5% ish (all 750 votes), I really can't see how I'm helping keep a Tory in mud.

NoSleep

Depends how many also voted LibDem (or Brexit Party/UKIP).


canadagoose

For fuck's sake. Labour follows in the SNP's shitty footsteps. Just makes me want to vote SGP* even more. At least they don't have this sort of problem.

* Separate from the Greens of England and Wales and N Irish Greens. No Lib Dem pacts up here (I think the LDs would baulk at the thought, or probably boke, more likely)

pancreas

Quote from: canadagoose on November 12, 2019, 11:39:55 AM
For fuck's sake. Labour follows in the SNP's shitty footsteps. Just makes me want to vote SGP* even more. At least they don't have this sort of problem.

* Separate from the Greens of England and Wales and N Irish Greens. No Lib Dem pacts up here (I think the LDs would baulk at the thought, or probably boke, more likely)

We have to deal with this at a local level. It's all driven by an assortment of demented boomers. Fuck em. No-one's listening to them. Just don't get drawn into it.

canadagoose

Anyway, back to the script

Y r use standin for westminster in stirling 😤😤😤 use are splitting eh indy vote eh!!! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 #GreenTories #UsetheMandate #UDINow

canadagoose

Quote from: pancreas on November 12, 2019, 11:48:15 AM
We have to deal with this at a local level. It's all driven by an assortment of demented boomers. Fuck em. No-one's listening to them. Just don't get drawn into it.
Very true. To be fair, I don't see many Edinburgh names on it. But it's sickening how quickly it seems to have spread through the SNP, and apparently now Labour (probably to a lesser extent, despite the list of names there - Labour are, of course, far bigger).

Edit: Also please don't let that put you off voting Labour if they're the best way to get the Tories out. The Tories are, of course, the absolute pits.

Noonling

Quote from: The Boston Crab on November 12, 2019, 09:04:30 AM
If you vote Green your a Tory.

I knew someone who said if she didn't vote Tory she'd vote Green. Very strange woman. Also very nice woman, was most surprised she votes Tory. I don't understand when nice people vote Tory.

Buelligan

It's like Qu'ils mangent de la brioche... can you really hate someone who hasn't the first idea of what the real world's like for normal humans living in it?  Because of it?

Poor old Marie Antoinette, I mean it too, I can't utterly condemn someone because they're born and have lived in their safe privileged little bubble (unless they start constantly lecturing those outside of course).  I mean, sure, they're lazy and unquestioning and probably weak but who isn't (and wouldn't be more so, given half a chance)?


biniput

Quote from: Buelligan on November 12, 2019, 10:22:30 AM
Absolutely this.  And LD is the party of choice for all those people who want to keep on flying and using palm oil products whilst ostentatiously waving their recycling bags at the poor.  The Greens lost my respect the moment they jumped into bed with that shower.

What a load of fucking crap.  I have noticed this rather odd, nasty, desperate and unreasonable attitude towards the Greens of the last week and had been wondering what it is all about. The sheer ridiculousness of it all seems to be out of proportion to what ever is going on in reality. I have had a little look around and found this at least:

https://leftfootforward.org/2019/11/exclusive-the-greens-tried-to-form-a-progressive-alliance-with-labour-heres-why-it-didnt-work-out/

The Greens stood aside in so many places in 2017 they lost half the votes they got in 2015 and didn't get shit in return or even acknowledgement. Now they are offering a pact and have had zero response in return and even now are getting nothing from Labour HQ. Well what are they to do? Only unilateral seat by seat action or go with the other partys. Going with the LD and PC group has at least woken some in Labour up this situation is something I suppose. To treat the Greens as some sort of pariah all of a sudden is making Labour supporters look entitled and a bit dictatorial. I am thinking can the Greens actually stand anywhere your fucking lordships? The only acceptable position from Labour types seems to be just fuck off out of it and it looks very unreasonable. I am saying this as someone who is a Green voter but going Labour tactically. What makes any of you think that where it is needed we won't vote for the right people on the right day?

Finally the idea that the Greens around the world who have been going on about issues like global warming FOR 50 FUCKING YEARS are suddenly the problem is grossly insulting. The idea that we are supposed to take lessons in purity from a party who have woken up to GND within 2 months of an election when the whole global warming action looks like being too late is seriously fucking amazingly arrogant.

Where were you lot 50 , 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, 4, 3, 2 or 1 year ago? FUCK OFF YOU ENTITLED CUNTS.  Soon there will be no more places to stand aside in.

biniput

#41
Quote from: pancreas on November 12, 2019, 11:48:15 AM
We have to deal with this at a local level. It's all driven by an assortment of demented boomers. Fuck em. No-one's listening to them. Just don't get drawn into it.

I would have some in the party watch out for this like a hawk. From what I have found out about this subject it seems that money from evangelical churches in the US and other think-tanks/money funnels is behind this. The point of keeping an eye out is that if these supposedly Labour people are letting outsiders pay them for this shit then party "security" isn't working. This smacks of entryism and behind the scenes covert action to get various members of various partys to change policy for what they want. this is clearly a form of not just lobbying but party within a party funding. If you want the members to set policy then shut this shit down as it isn't as innocent or badly organised a bunch of "boomers" as it looks.

Quote from: canadagoose on November 12, 2019, 11:51:00 AM
..............I don't see many Edinburgh names on it. But it's sickening how quickly it seems to have spread through the SNP, and apparently now Labour (p..............

Yeah funny that isn't it. Keep an eye on it.

ZoyzaSorris

Quote from: biniput on November 12, 2019, 03:25:35 PM
Where were you lot 50 , 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, 4, 3, 2 or 1 year ago? FUCK OFF YOU ENTITLED CUNTS. 

Quote from: ZoyzaSorris on November 12, 2019, 08:51:13 AM
I'm not against the Greens at all. I used to be a Green member and voter.

Loads this is meant to be a party. No wonder the Left is effed.

Party on.

NoSleep

Quote from: biniput on November 12, 2019, 03:25:35 PM
Where were you lot 50 , 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, 4, 3, 2 or 1 year ago? FUCK OFF YOU ENTITLED CUNTS.

35 years ago I was raising money for my local Green Party and attending their meetings (whilst being a member of another party).

Buelligan

Yes, I too have supported the Greens. 

What's "fucking crap", biniput, about saying that the moment they jumped into bed with the LDs, they lost my respect?  If they've been angling for a pact with Labour and have been rebuffed does that mean they can shack up with anyone and it's absolutely A-OK?  What if they'd chosen UKIP or Farage's new company or the tories?  Would it be OK not to respect them then?

There's nothing "fucking crap" about losing respect for someone/thing that you respected for holding onto their principles when they stop.  That's not fucking crap, that's sane.

Dr Rock

I voted Green the first time I had a chance, back in 1987. They got 0.3% of the vote that year. Probably without my help they would've given up.


touchingcloth

Quote from: NoSleep on November 12, 2019, 05:04:44 PM
35 years ago I was raising money for my local Green Party and attending their meetings (whilst being a member of another party).

35 wasn't an option.

Quote from: biniput on November 12, 2019, 03:25:35 PM
Where were you lot 50 , 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, 4, 3, 2 or 1 year ago?

ANSWER THE QUESTION

NoSleep

Quote from: Buelligan on November 12, 2019, 05:36:04 PM
Yes, I too have supported the Greens. 

What's "fucking crap", biniput, about saying that the moment they jumped into bed with the LDs, they lost my respect?  If they've been angling for a pact with Labour and have been rebuffed does that mean they can shack up with anyone and it's absolutely A-OK?  What if they'd chosen UKIP or Farage's new company or the tories?  Would it be OK not to respect them then?

There's nothing "fucking crap" about losing respect for someone/thing that you respected for holding onto their principles when they stop.  That's not fucking crap, that's sane.

If something or somebody can't be questioned what does that make them?

Buelligan

A tree?  Wait... wait... I know this...

Dr Rock

Remember that awful Australian woman they had as leader a few years ago? Where is she now?


edit: House Of Lords/Sheffield apparently.

Can't wait for GREEN to actually win the Election and bump this thread.

biniput

Where were you lot 50 , 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, 4, 3, 2 or 1 year ago? FUCK OFF YOU ENTITLED CUNTS. 

That bit about where were you isn't about anyone on here but about this odd thing in which the whole GND has been taken by those like Labour as if it had never existed before. Recently I see that "Stats for Lefties" has been on twitter ranting about "What is the Green party for?".  Isn't it in the name? They spend all this time campaigning and then suddenly and particularly from Labour types it's all "who are you" when time is running out. All this JUST because of one move they have been pushed into.

Quote from: Buelligan on November 12, 2019, 05:36:04 PM
Yes, I too have supported the Greens. 

What's "fucking crap", biniput, about saying that the moment they jumped into bed with the LDs, they lost my respect?  If they've been angling for a pact with Labour and have been rebuffed does that mean they can shack up with anyone and it's absolutely A-OK?  What if they'd chosen UKIP or Farage's new company or the tories?  Would it be OK not to respect them then?

There's nothing "fucking crap" about losing respect for someone/thing that you respected for holding onto their principles when they stop.  That's not fucking crap, that's sane.

Are you even reading what I say? The thing you said about "The Greens lost my respect the moment they jumped into bed with that shower" they have not suddenly become the LD you know. Just because they are in a "pact" for 2 seconds through having almost zero options should not have you panicking. It is panic that seems the root of this in terms of getting every vote possible. Panic that the Greens never got votes from previous non-voters and ONLY Labour. Panic about our situation at the mo.

Quote from: ZoyzaSorris on November 12, 2019, 08:51:13 AM
I'm not against the Greens at all. I used to be a Green member and voter. Their recent dallying with the Dems, helping to detoxify that neoliberal anti-environmental entity, has been pretty unforgivable. And right now, when Labour actually represents a genuinely radical new green hope, and the alternative is the exact opposite, it is sheer indulgence. And probably basically for those who don't want any actual change but want to feel slightly like they aren't part of the problem. But they are.

What the hell is this? One supposed mistake and they are Satan or something. The whole point here is Brexit is it not and getting the Tories to lose yes? This is NOT a policy thing but a tactical vote thing isn't it. Why all this crap talk? Do you really think the Green party would support policy or narrative of the LDs? it isn't like this is for no reason and all is it? Get some perspective and give them a little room here. If they cannot co-ordinate with Labour or the Lib Dems then they co-ordinate with no-one? What do they do? What options?

Fuck em, bini lad.

OH WHEN THE GREENS
GO MARCHIN IN
OH WHEN THE GREENS GO MARCHIN IN
I WANNA BE IN THAT NUMBER
OH WHEN THE GREENS GO MARCHIN IN

When we get in, we'll have all these bastards shot.

bgmnts

Can we borrow and arrow them instead of shooting them? That seems more environmentally friendly.

Buelligan

Quote from: biniput on November 12, 2019, 06:12:00 PM
Are you even reading what I say? The thing you said about "The Greens lost my respect the moment they jumped into bed with that shower" they have not suddenly become the LD you know. Just because they are in a "pact" for 2 seconds through having almost zero options should not have you panicking. It is panic that seems the root of this in terms of getting every vote possible. Panic that the Greens never got votes from previous non-voters and ONLY Labour. Panic about our situation at the mo.

Zero options for what?  How does propping up the LDs give them more options?  Surely, the point of the Green Party is to move the country/world closer and closer to a genuinely Green world.  Something I live for.  The other thing that really means anything to me is making the world a safe place where no one gets exploited and everyone has enough.  That's why I want Labour to win and it's why I can't respect the Green Party for supporting Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats, who aren't about any of those things.

Quote from: bgmnts on November 12, 2019, 06:22:12 PM
Can we borrow and arrow them instead of shooting them? That seems more environmentally friendly.

Greenest way is to bury them alive.

NoSleep

It does appear very odd how the Greens have stuck with this pact despite the apparent lying, selfish behaviour of Swinson and her party. I thought the writing was on the wall way back when Caroline Lucas implored the LibDems to work together with Labour after the previous attempt to bypass Corbyn had rightly failed. Seems an error of judgement to ally with another party that have incessantly shown so much bad faith and seem more bent on destroying Labour and gaining seats for themselves than preventing Brexit. The LibDems are behaving irresponsibly and it's clear they were only using "pro-remain" for how useful it is to their own ends; what a fucking shower.


biniput

Quote from: Buelligan on November 12, 2019, 06:26:29 PM
Zero options for what?  How does propping up the LDs give them more options?  Surely, the point of the Green Party is to move the country/world closer and closer to a genuinely Green world.  Something I live for.  The other thing that really means anything to me is making the world a safe place where no one gets exploited and everyone has enough.  That's why I want Labour to win and it's why I can't respect the Green Party for supporting Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats, who aren't about any of those things.

Are you this numb through practice? What have I been on about this whole time? Now I assume that all this tactical voting thing is about stopping Brexit and the Tories yes? So then how can the Greens contribute is the question I have to spell out. So then I assume this is about how this is achieved. For the voters this is obviously about who to vote for yes? Now then about the parties themselvs what can they do. I assume some sort of tactical set up there? If not then the usual candidates stand in the usual seats yes? Now then this has been decided as not good enough yes? So It has been decided very unselfishly by Labour types that all must make way for them because pragmatism yes? Now if the Greens offer some sort of pact or whatever and is rejected then surely we have to ask why Labour would do that. Do they want Greens to stand against them? So if the Greens A: have to be tactical and B: cannot get Labour onside then they have only 1 or 2 parties left yes? Ok so in wales it would be Plaid and in England there is what? ONLY the LD. If they cannot touch the LD then what. How the fuck do you not understand this is the question. You lot want them to achieve what with whom? There are no other options other than what you cowards seem unable to say in that they should just field no one anywhere. What effect would a Green and PC pact achieve? Very Little. Basically it was this:

Everyone: Please help us to avoid Tory and Brexit

Green party:  OK So how do you want Co-operation:

Labour: Fuck off

Green:  Ok so we do something with other parties just for now then:

Everyone: Fuck off greens you LD scum

Green: ........