Better Call Saul - Season 5

[Petey Pate]

Also, Nacho and Lalo are probably not uncommon names so it could be referring to someone else. I don't think the show runners will feel beholden to a minor bit of continuity from a different show with some characters that didn't exist when the original show was written

It's definitely the same character.

How did Lalo become such an essential character?
Not easily. Gilligan and Gould are usually in sync on major creative decisions, but Lalo — the clever Salamanca cousin played by Tony Dalton, who was introduced late in the season and quickly become a fan favorite — was a big sticking point between the two for years. The character was mentioned by Saul Goodman in his first Breaking Bad episode, in a context that suggested Lalo was some kind of bogeyman, but that was all we knew. And after a few years of struggling to figure out who Lalo would be on this show and how he would fit in with the story, Gilligan felt that was all there was to know.

"I'm embarrassed to admit this now," Gilligan says, "but back in Season One or Two, when I was more active on the show, Peter kept saying, 'We've gotta answer who Lalo is,' and I finally said, 'I don't know that we need to answer every single question.' And, man, I was wrong. If Peter hadn't pushed, we wouldn't have Tony Dalton. We wouldn't have this amazing character. So, some of the ones that I found the most frustrating to deal with, that I said, 'Ah, the hell with them. Who cares?' tend to be the best ones of all."

[Blue Jam]

I don't think the show runners will feel beholden to a minor bit of continuity from a different show with some characters that didn't exist when the original show was written

Well, they did invent a second wife for Jimmy to explain one throwaway line of Saul's from BB:

we realised that in an episode of Breaking Bad, Jimmy mentions his second wife at a certain point to Walt – a completely throwaway line written years before we ever thought there'd be a spinoff. [Season three, episode four: "I caught my second wife screwing my stepdad!"]

Those lines make you want to go back in a time machine and kick yourself in the butt for writing them. Those moments present challenges, to say the least.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/jul/14/vince-gilligan-on-better-call-saul-we-dread-the-future-as-much-as-the-fans-do

[Wayman C. McCreery]

Well, they did invent a second wife for Jimmy to explain one throwaway line of Saul's from BB:

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/jul/14/vince-gilligan-on-better-call-saul-we-dread-the-future-as-much-as-the-fans-do

I'm surprised they're that bothered by this. It could easily be explained as Saul exaggerating for effect.

I've just read that Jimmy refers to a previous wife as part of the "Chicago Sunroof" incident, so we know that Kim is at least his second.

[Blue Jam]

I'm surprised they're that bothered by this. It could easily be explained as Saul exaggerating for effect.

The same could have been said about the Kevin Costner anecdote...

[samadriel]

I'd forgotten Saul's mention of Lalo, so the big reveal of Lalo last season completely went over my head, I was just, "who the hell is this guy doing the cooking?" It really crippled the pacing for me to have to be told "Oh yeah, Saul didn't just mention Nacho when Walt and Jesse kidnapped him, he also mentioned this guy". I think that's the only time they've leant too hard on continuity to do the dramatic heavy lifting for them, most of the time the show is impeccable.

[kalowski]

Also, Nacho and Lalo are probably not uncommon names so it could be referring to someone else. I don't think the show runners will feel beholden to a minor bit of continuity from a different show with some characters that didn't exist when the original show was written

That's a bit of a stretch. Saul just happens to be referring to two other guys called Lalo and Nacho? I think at least one of them is going to die during season 6, but Jimmy doesn't know.

[phantom_power]

If they both live or both die or only dies I won't care how it ties in with that throwaway line from BB as long as it is dramatically satisfying

[Pseudopath]

I'd be happy if the next season is just 13 episodes of Rhea Seehorn talking to a camera under a bedsheet.

[Blue Jam]

I've just been struck by the irony of Howard suggesting Jimmy was pulling the strings Re: Kim's big career choice. Howard? The man whose entire career was mapped out by his father before he was born?

I agree that Howard's not a bad person, he's just someone who was born into a very sheltered life of great privilege and can't comprehend other people's struggles and the motivations behind their decisions. He won't have had to work in a post room so a sponsor could pay his law school fees, or take a dodgy correspondence course because that's all he could afford. He won't have had to make any major personal decisions or big sacrifices regarding his career because he's had a plum job waiting for him all his life. It didn't even matter that he wasn't any good at that job because Daddy just reassigned him from litigation to client development, jobs a good'un. He simply can't relate to the Kims and Jimmys of this world and he has no idea how insulting his behaviour is to them. Howard is someone who has breezed through life because success is the only option for guys like him. He's like David Cameron or Boris Johnson or Donald Trump- too big and too rich to fail.

Thinking about it, Howard's downfall could be a great arc for series 6. If Kim doesn't make good on her promise to bring about his downfall, the only way Howard will experience a crisis will be when he retires and wonders if the law was really what he wanted to do with his life.

[Puce Moment]

Good overview there BJ. I think the way the drama has moved away from Howard and that firm makes him seem like an unlikely figure for Kim's ire. But thinking back on the first couple of seasons, he was a real twat. I am delighted by the idea of the pompous prick being taken down, and I'm wondering if Kim's going to bring out the big guns.

And by 'big guns' I mean a tawdry and horrid sexual harassment case.

[Blue Jam]

Cheers! Howard really does seem very good at (inadvertently) pushing all of Kim's berserk buttons, in particular the one she has for people putting Jimmy down and the one for people treating her like a naive and fragile damsel who has been taken advantage of and corrupted by Jimmy and who needs rescuing from him. "You don't save me. I save me." and all that- which is why I'm convinced that only Kim could be the architect of her own demise.

I really don't get that popular fan theory that Kim will end up with Howard somehow- she obviously finds him repellent and his behaviour insulting. Contrast Jimmy doing a lot of soul-searching before sheepishly asking Kim "Am I bad for you?" with Howard just coming straight out and telling Kim that Jimmy is bad for her. You can see why she has more respect for Jimmy, and that she has more in common with him.

I also loved Howard spitefully trying to get Jimmy into trouble with the missus by tattling on his antics with the bowling balls and the prostitutes, only for his efforts to backfire when Kim was actually amused and impressed by Jimmy's behaviour. Yes, it was partly because of her relief that it wasn't something worse, after the big secret Jimmy kept from her about being ambushed in the desert, but it was also laughter at Howard trying to unnerve Kim andshowing how little he understands her. Also he was patronising her again- nice to see that backfire too.

The wonderful irony being that just as she wants in on a bit more japery, Jimmy is put off and now scared of playing with fire, after his traumatising experiences with the cartel. They're actually still out of step with each other, only in a different way. The dynamics constantly shift. The attention to detail in the characterisation in this is truly exceptional.

Also this. Great analysis, and I'm wondering if Jimmy might end up getting overprotective of Kim and her being insulted by his behaviour and that might be what drives them apart.

[cliggg]

I've been re-watching Breaking Bad recently and Lalo and Nacho are mentioned in Season 2 but in Season 4 when Gus visits Hector in the nursing home after Gus, Mike and Jesse killed all the cartel members Gus tells Hector that the Salamanca name will die when Hector does. Obviously Lalo is a Salamanca and he did say to Nacho in the last BCS episode that he was halfway to becoming one too.

I don't think I've ever obsessed over any show as much as I do with Better Call Saul.

[cliggg]

[NoSleep]

Mark E Smith has let himself go.

[Excellent_Biscuits]

My Dad has let himself go, to Alberque

[Excellent_Biscuits]

No idea where Alberque is

[lankyguy95]

Who knew in the long run that working for Gus was so good for your skin?

[Sebastian Cobb]

I really don't get that popular fan theory that Kim will end up with Howard somehow- she obviously finds him repellent and his behaviour insulting. Contrast Jimmy doing a lot of soul-searching before sheepishly asking Kim "Am I bad for you?" with Howard just coming straight out and telling Kim that Jimmy is bad for her. You can see why she has more respect for Jimmy, and that she has more in common with him.

Saul searching, more like!!

[jobotic]

Been watching this after saving it up. Just the last episode to go.

Fucking superb.

Wish I'd watched it when you lot did though as I'm still confused about things you've already figured out.

[Poobum]

Not entirely relevant, but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPSWvpUiETY.

Finished re-watching Breaking Bad last week, and got me feeling quite teary. Great program, and just admiring the achievement of writing such a brilliant program.

[Blue Jam]

Good bit of Mike there. While we're at it, Patrick Fabian's impersonation of Jonathan Banks cracks me up. 4.40 here:

https://youtu.be/H7THFRe2qxI

[non capisco]

^ Ha, that's a spot on three word imitation!

[Blue Jam]

Might have to take a look at this:

https://houseseats.live/2020/05/03/tickets-mrshow513/amp/

[wooders1978]

I get the impression that to make a really good, soulful story about Jimmy, they had to sacrifice a lot of breaking bads Saul - it wouldn't surprise me if they don't end next season with him being the fully fleshed out sleaze bag Saul we see in BB

Firstly as others have said, it's too much to achieve over a single season from where he is now, I can't see Jimmy advocating people kill someone in jail to keep them silent, especially if they are his client
The genuinely awful way he behaved toward skyler, again, can't see Jimmy doing that, ever

I think the outcome will be us fans will need to accept quite a lack of continuity when it wraps up, which personally I'm ok with. 

[Puce Moment]

Having rewatched some BB episodes recently, I have to say that I assume that some kind of existential trauma is required to make Jimmy become the Saul we know and despise. At the moment it could not be described as incremental change, as the BB Jimmy is just a different animal completely from BCS Jimmy. I think it's going to take something truly horrible to make Jimmy give up on the world in favour of accruing cash from scumbags.

[lankyguy95]

It seems foolish to doubt Gould and co. but I am a touch sceptical how possible it will be to link BCS and BB Saul. Agree at this stage it's going to take some pretty devastating moments for that transition to feel genuine.

I think the outcome will be us fans will need to accept quite a lack of continuity when it wraps up, which personally I'm ok with. 

I wouldn't be. That's the whole point of the gradual build in this show. If it wraps up with the pieces out of place then it doesn't show the rest of the show in the best light either.

[buttgammon]

I've been watching Breaking Bad again and have two main thoughts about Saul. First of all, I agree with some of the posts in this thread - something big has to change to make him such a cunt, which in turn makes me worry about where they're going with Kim. Secondly, what the hell is the voice he does in Series 2? It's weirdly deep and affected, but soon slips into his normal voice thankfully.

[Blue Jam]

Secondly, what the hell is the voice he does in Series 2? It's weirdly deep and affected, but soon slips into his normal voice thankfully.

Wasn't Saul originally only meant to be in three episodes of season 2 before it was decided he'd become a regular character? That might have something to do with it.

I rewatched some of BCS lately too. That deep, growly laugh Saul does is incredibly sleazy. In his first meeting with Skyler he's positively shuddersome too. Jimmy has still got a long way to fall.

[buttgammon]

Wasn't Saul originally only meant to be in three episodes of season 2 before it was decided he'd become a regular character? That might have something to do with it.

I rewatched some of BCS lately too. That deep, growly laugh Saul does is incredibly sleazy. In his first meeting with Skyler he's positively shuddersome too. Jimmy has still got a long way to fall.

That's right - maybe Odenkirk worried he couldn't keep the voice up and moved back to one that was more natural?

He's incredibly sleazy in Breaking Bad, even harassing poor Francesca in the car park after work one day. It's a strange watch in the light of BCS.

I'm only up to Series 3 so the other jarring thing is seeing how youthful and sprightly Mike is.

[mrfridge]

If the next season is essentially covering the destruction of Kim (be it figuratively or literally) it's going to be a pretty grim slog. I can't see how else Jimmy can transition into Saul though.

If she's killed that could tip him over the edge but that's the obvious route isn't it? I can't see her sloping off with Lalo, so would her going to prison or being disbarred be enough to create Saul? I can't see it somehow, so maybe her death is the only way to tie things up. Grim speculation eh?!