Author Topic: We need to talk about Behringer...  (Read 3897 times)

the

Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #90 on: May 23, 2020, 11:33:55 PM »
I play a lot of instruments, used to work as a session musician and playing in a band for a few years before realizing I couldn’t afford the twin luxuries of both eating food and paying rent doing that.

The allure of these mad noise-box things is that I have no idea how they work so I’d like to get (an idiot-proof) one and figure it out.

Well that's a valid approach, but the reason for also considering 2) and 3) in my original post was to assemble some sense of what kind of music you think you'd like to be making. Because if you have an idea of that, it reduces the risk of what you buy not having the right capabilities/workflow for what you want to be creating.

Worth bearing in mind of course that you can rent a device to try it out rather than committing.

Also don't make the assumption that, just because something's hardware, it's gonna propel you more quickly towards making music than software will. Software is a much wider field/more open-ended, but it will lend you more flexibility of workflow than one particular hardware device will.

Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2020, 06:57:51 PM »
I play a lot of instruments, used to work as a session musician and playing in a band for a few years before realizing I couldn’t afford the twin luxuries of both eating food and paying rent doing that.

The allure of these mad noise-box things is that I have no idea how they work so I’d like to get (an idiot-proof) one and figure it out.

I see a lot of musicians rather than electronic musicians seem to favour things like the akai mpx these days.

Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2020, 07:51:34 PM »
As someone who spent years using Cubase then Ableton but then gave it all up for 5 years before coming back to music making with an MPC live I'll say this. I find it much easier to do the initial creative stuff and get ideas up and running on the MPC, but fuck me it's an absolute cunt to flesh out ideas and turn them into finished tracks. Not only that but I frequently find myself wishing I had access to soft synths with their infinite polyphony and mutitimbrality. Yes I could use the MPC in conjunction with a laptop but that would defeat the entire object of using something self contained.

On the other hand I love the thing and find it quite addictive to use.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2020, 08:17:15 PM »
I see a lot of musicians rather than electronic musicians seem to favour things like the akai mpx these days.

These look nice and simple for an idiot like me. As much as I like the idea of getting some incomprehensible noise machine I have no handle on operating and figuring it out, I worry it’d just sit in a draw if I couldn’t work out a way to “learn” it.

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Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #94 on: May 25, 2020, 01:15:18 PM »
I've been getting deeper into the RD-8 and changing some of the settings that are "global" by default to "pattern", so I can have swing (50-75%), tempo (20-240 BPM), step size (1/8, 1/8T, 1/16, 1/16T, 1/32) & probability (0-100%) set for each pattern, i.e. that pattern that sounds good at 140bpm plays at 140bpm when you select it, etc.

One disappointment with the above is that moving from patterns with different step sizes causes a slight hiccup in the tempo, even on something straightforward, like going from 1/16 to 1/32. Fortunately, in that instance, just setting both to 1/16 and doubling up the the tempo of the formerly 1/32 pattern gives a glitch free transition.

Not yet dabbled around with song mode to see if that gives it more backbone in those cases.

Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #95 on: May 25, 2020, 01:23:38 PM »
Looking forward to the day you can change firmware using an app on yer phone.

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Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #96 on: May 25, 2020, 01:37:33 PM »
Via wireless? That could be a nightmare. Fortunately, in this case you have to hard set the machine to "receive firmware mode".

Mine came with the latest firmware installed; I'm just playing with a few settings that default to global out of the box.

Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #97 on: May 26, 2020, 06:25:42 PM »
I used to be really into electronic music about 15-20 years ago but sold all my gear when I realised I'd produced nothing of worth and wasn't really getting any joy out of it.

So imagine my surprise, when I had the idea to get an analogue synth to twiddle on during lockdown, looked at what was getting the mentions on the forums and saw that Behringer (of all companies) were making these reissues. Great sounding (and cheap) as they are, none really made me want to get one, just fancied something more up to date having had a bunch of the originals in the past. So I picked up a tiny Korg Monologue and have been having a blast with it, sounds fantastic and the sequencer is addictive, all for just over £200. And it runs on batteries, perfect!

But as soon as I saw that Behringer had added the Korg Mono/Poly to their stable - just knew I'd have to get one. The Monopoly was by far my favourite vintage analogue I'd owned, just something endlessly fascinating about it, great memories of messing around with the chord memory function (every synth should have this!) and cross modulation, it was the one I most regretted selling so definitely going to get one of the Behringers whenever it comes out. Sounds great on the demos, far more interesting sonically to me than the Moog reissues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ6Gd8_qkEM

buzby

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Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #98 on: May 27, 2020, 11:10:15 AM »
One disappointment with the above is that moving from patterns with different step sizes causes a slight hiccup in the tempo, even on something straightforward, like going from 1/16 to 1/32. Fortunately, in that instance, just setting both to 1/16 and doubling up the the tempo of the formerly 1/32 pattern gives a glitch free transition.
I noted that in one of my previous posts - it's mentioned in the Gearslutz thread as having been there since the first units shipped in September so they presumably haven't got round to fixing it yet.

So imagine my surprise, when I had the idea to get an analogue synth to twiddle on during lockdown, looked at what was getting the mentions on the forums and saw that Behringer (of all companies) were making these reissues.
Behringer's products are clones, not reissues. Korg/ARP and Moog have made reissues of their own products. Dave Smith has made enhanced recreations of some of his own Sequential models (Prophet 08, Pro 3) and did the OB-6 with Tom Oberheim.

Behringer have seen there is money to be made and are undercutting the original companies or other clone manufacturers though their vastly lower R&D and manufacturing costs. They also own the chip cloning company that some of the other manufacturers rely on for supply, including DSI. An engineer from DSI posted this comment about Behringer's sharp business practices on that specific issue on the Gearslutz forum (where Ulli Behringer also posts)
Quote
To my understanding, Cool Audio did not disclose that they were owned by Behringer when we inquired with them directly. That was super great of them

We are actively moving away from using Cool Audio parts now that we know.
Another DSI employee made a post on Gearslutz about Behringer's blatant disregard for IP (which is one of the reasons the company moved from Gemrany to China) which caused Ulli to issue a lawsuit against DSI and 20 members of the Gearslutz forum for defamation, which was eventually thrown out of court.

There was also the unpleasant 'KIRN CorkSniffer' episode from March this year, as an attack at the musician and journalist Peter Kirn, who had been critical of the company's practices (the original video was taken down, but has been re-uploaded here), which included a trademark application of his name to deny him the ability to use it.
Quote
But as soon as I saw that Behringer had added the Korg Mono/Poly to their stable - just knew I'd have to get one. The Monopoly was by far my favourite vintage analogue I'd owned, just something endlessly fascinating about it, great memories of messing around with the chord memory function (every synth should have this!) and cross modulation, it was the one I most regretted selling so definitely going to get one of the Behringers whenever it comes out. Sounds great on the demos, far more interesting sonically to me than the Moog reissues.
In the specific case of the Mono/Poly, Korg asked if customers wanted a reissue of it in October 2018, but seem to have got sidetracked with their ARP reissues and never mentioned it again until the summer of 2019. Behringer then jumped in to pre-empt them (they trademarked the 'Monopoly' name in November 2019). I doubt Korg will bother continuing with their version now.

the

Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #99 on: May 27, 2020, 11:15:48 AM »
Funnily enough I was re-reading the Beastie Boys Book earlier, and there'a photo of them in a studio from around the time of Hello Nasty. To my alarm, on the desktop is not only an MC-303 but a Quasimidi Rave-O-Lution 309 :)

Just an addendum to this - later in the book there is a list of various pieces of equipment they've used with a brief summary for each. The Quasimidi is in there:

Quote from: Adam Horovitz
27. Rave-O-Lution drum machine
This thing is pretty fuckin' cool. I did a live remix of every rap song on Hello Nasty while we were mixing the record. I have a cassette tape of it. Wanna hear it sometime?

NoSleep

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Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #100 on: May 27, 2020, 11:36:28 AM »
I noted that in one of my previous posts - it's mentioned in the Gearslutz thread as having been there since the first units shipped in September so they presumably haven't got round to fixing it yet.

On the TR-808 you have to hard set the step size for the machine (called pre scale) by a selector switch and only gives you the choice of 1/8T, 1/16T/, 1/16 & 1/32. So it's beyond how the 808 could function in that respect. They added a fifth choice, 1/8, on the RD-8, which would only be useful if you want to swing (again, something the 808 doesn't do) 1/8th notes, which you could  also do by halving the tempo whilst set on 1/16, but the RD-8 lacks the 808's big tempo wheel and its fine-tunable sidekick, so keeping the tempo up to speed gives you slightly finer tuning (pity it doesn't give at least one decimal place for the BPM).

NoSleep

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Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #101 on: May 27, 2020, 12:20:37 PM »
Just run a test, slaving the RD-8 to an external clock via MIDI and that overrides the sloppy tempo changeover when changing between patterns with differing step-size/pre-scale, which is a usable get out. Preserves the swing amount for individual patterns, too.

buzby

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Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #102 on: May 27, 2020, 02:05:10 PM »
On the TR-808 you have to hard set the step size for the machine (called pre scale) by a selector switch and only gives you the choice of 1/8T, 1/16T/, 1/16 & 1/32. So it's beyond how the 808 could function in that respect. They added a fifth choice, 1/8, on the RD-8
Setting the scale per pattern (and the 1/8 option) is something else 'inherited' from the Yocto's firmware.
The tempo slip on pattern change bug was reported by someone to Behringer in last September (with this accompanying video to show it). Someone else also reported it to them again in April after the most recent firmware update didn't contain a fix and got the response that it was being passed onto the developers.
Just run a test, slaving the RD-8 to an external clock via MIDI and that overrides the sloppy tempo changeover when changing between patterns with differing step-size/pre-scale, which is a usable get out. Preserves the swing amount for individual patterns, too.
Though you then run the potential of running into the MIDI Slave sync issue instead.

There is another interesting issue that's cropped up on the Gearslutz thread recently regarding the Master Out output being polarity inverted compared to the Individual Outs when the internal FX are disabled, so they can't really be used at the same time. This was apparently done so that they could use phase inversion as a shortcut for removal of individual sounds from the onboard FX loop.

Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #103 on: May 27, 2020, 02:48:08 PM »
I doubt Korg will bother continuing with their version now.

That's a shame, I would think plenty of people still have the money and the inclination to get their hands on something closer to the real deal and authentically "Korg" while leaving Behringer to mop up the budget-end of the market.

That said, if the Poly D is selling for £600+ and the Mono/Poly is in the same case I can see that being priced similarly, so not really that budget at all, particularly if they're not built to last.

NoSleep

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Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #104 on: May 27, 2020, 03:02:01 PM »
Though you then run the potential of running into the MIDI Slave sync issue instead.

Seemed fine from a MIDI-out (generated by Logic Pro X) via an RME Fireface 400, at least the couple of times I tried it.

Quote
There is another interesting issue that's cropped up on the Gearslutz thread recently regarding the Master Out output being polarity inverted compared to the Individual Outs when the internal FX are disabled, so they can't really be used at the same time. This was apparently done so that they could use phase inversion as a shortcut for removal of individual sounds from the onboard FX loop.

If you look at those images I posted of the bass drum glitch earlier (recorded via the "Mono" output), you can see its waveform is inverted. Something to bear in mind if recording from the "Mono" output (and slightly naff if not made optional).

Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #105 on: May 28, 2020, 01:08:54 AM »
i bought a behringer um2 so I could play guitar into computer without latency and I love it because I can't see what else would do the job for thirty quid

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #106 on: May 28, 2020, 01:30:05 AM »
lmao “play guitar into computer“ what next mate gonna play golf into your fridge?

Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #107 on: May 28, 2020, 01:37:38 AM »
YOU FUCKER IM GO NNA FUCK you ROTTEN

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Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #108 on: May 28, 2020, 05:35:17 AM »
Fuck him into computer?

I can't see what else would do the job for thirty 85 quid

There's other options at that price, but the UM2 is fine.

Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #109 on: May 29, 2020, 12:43:22 AM »
i dont have 85 pounds for guitar into computer

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Re: We need to talk about Behringer...
« Reply #110 on: May 29, 2020, 06:10:39 AM »
So you couldn't afford a UM2? You must have gone for the UCA202 instead.

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