Author Topic: No Time To Die (Bond 25)  (Read 8477 times)

Rolf Lundgren

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2019, 07:58:20 PM »
It won't be a good Bond film unless somebody says the title in it. Preferably the very last line of the film and then looks straight down the barrel of the camera and winks.

Thomas

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2019, 08:29:40 PM »
I wonder if they'll incorporate the change of Bond actor into the continuity of the Craig films. They've put a lot of effort into emphasising that the past four films have been set in the same universe, it'd be jarring if they didn't address it.

They might very decisively just begin a new continuity (perhaps set in the 1950s, jettisoning the Bourne trappings of the 21st century), or this one will end with Bond passing his birth name on, for whatever reason, fulfilling the long-running (and rubbish) fan theory about a useless codename.

I think this one might end with Bond at least faking his death. He sort of already did that in Skyfall, but they're not above recycling major plot points.

Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2019, 10:45:07 PM »
You mean like the end of Dark Knight Rises? Anyway, Rami Malek's character is now rumored to be Dr No.

chveik

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2019, 11:21:13 PM »
they should end the franchise, we've got jack reacher now!

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2019, 12:28:05 AM »
I see some parallels with Sherlock, and the things that went wrong in that series.

Thomas

  • please describe an encounter with a squirrel
Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2019, 01:17:49 AM »
Arrogant to wear a hat of his own name.

You mean like the end of Dark Knight Rises?

There is a bit of a Dark Knight Batman vibe to the latest Bonds. They're obviously feeling around, trying to work out what a modern Bond franchise should be. Since the superb reboot of Casino Royale (me fave) it's mainly been meta-commentary on how fucking clapped out and worn down the character is.

'Are you ready to get back to work, 007?'
'Not really, to be honest.'

Even in Skyfall, the second best Craiger, all of Bond's actions only worsen the situation. Barely has any lines, either, only nodding gravely whenever anybody comments about the bags under his eyes.

Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2019, 01:28:51 AM »
Arrogant to wear a hat of his own name.

There is a bit of a Dark Knight Batman vibe to the latest Bonds. They're obviously feeling around, trying to work out what a modern Bond franchise should be. Since the superb reboot of Casino Royale (me fave) it's mainly been meta-commentary on how fucking clapped out and worn down the character is.

'Are you ready to get back to work, 007?'
'Not really, to be honest.'

Even in Skyfall, the second best Craiger, all of Bond's actions only worsen the situation. Barely has any lines, either, only nodding gravely whenever anybody comments about the bags under his eyes.

everyone is incompetent or shit in that movie, no-one does anything remotely intelligent in the whole boorish contrived thing. its like both hero and villain have down syndrome. especially the women, they either fuck up or get fucked in a shower after their husband gets killed. makes quantum of whotsit look like citizen dane.

Ant Farm Keyboard

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2019, 08:02:08 PM »
I've watched a few extras for Star Trek: Nemesis (don't judge me!), which was an early script by John Logan, who did some polishing on Skyfall (basically, the same responsibility Paul Haggis had on Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, except that he had to stop for the second due to the writers strike).

John Logan explains that he loves having the antagonist being somewhat related to the hero, which is exactly what he did in Nemesis. And also in Gladiator. The parallels between Bond and Silva actually help Skyfall.
For Spectre, he handled the first drafts alone, using requests by Sam Mendes (who also loved the foster brother angle), then EON and MGM bought the rights to Spectre and Blofeld, then there was some frustration over the script which caused Logan to leave (he was even contracted at some point for two films) and Purvis and Wade to be called back, with Jez Butterworth doing some more polishing. I guess that there were several camps that fought for or against elements such as using Bond's foster brother, putting Blofeld at the forefront, etc., and it looks like the worst version of these choices prevailed.

I also suspect that EON and MGM really wanted to have Blofeld as a central figure, because it allowed them to make Sony foot part of the bill for the deal over the rights.

This time, there's no pressure to recoup on the investment, and it's more a matter of tying up a few loose ends and allowing Craig to complete his run with some continuity. Besides, Craig had a falling-out with Mendes during production of Spectre, and he wanted to leave the part on a higher note.

Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2019, 09:49:41 PM »
John Logan explains that he loves having the antagonist being somewhat related to the hero, which is exactly what he did in Nemesis. And also in Gladiator. The parallels between Bond and Silva actually help Skyfall.

I hate this increasing trend of the hero and villian being brothers in some way. Especially when they just crowbar it into the new version of iconic characters. It was really stupid in Joker

Zetetic

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2019, 10:17:22 PM »
John Logan explains that he loves having the antagonist being somewhat related to the hero, which is exactly what he did in Nemesis.
Did he explain why? Something about emphasising that we are moulded by our experiences?

Which at least seem relevant in thecuriousorange's example, if not actually thoughtful.

Kryton

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2019, 10:41:32 PM »
That's why I have no interest in modern Bond movies.  I liked the old movies for being a daft old bit of frivolous fun.  I don't want to watch a dark and gritty James Bond, full of introspection and moody brooding.  Just shove a fella in a wheelchair down a chimney and call it a day.  Is that too much to ask?

To be fair some chap got mauled to death by a Komodo dragon in a recent one. Now't wrong with that.

Kryton

  • Disregard the Constabulary
Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2019, 10:42:23 PM »
I hate this increasing trend of the hero and villian being brothers in some way. Especially when they just crowbar it into the new version of iconic characters. It was really stupid in Joker

Except in that film you mentioned, it didn't happen and was a delusion.

Thomas

  • please describe an encounter with a squirrel
Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2019, 12:27:10 AM »
Yeah, it was ultimately rug-pulled in that, but the character's delusion lasted just long enough before the reveal that, as I was watching, it unfortunately had the same Annoyance Impact for me as though it had been played straight.

Remember Sherlock's secret sister on Mad Island?

Jim Bob

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2019, 05:58:27 AM »

Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2019, 02:13:05 PM »
Had a bit of a Partridge weekend and watched all the Daniel Craig Bonds and I really don't think it would be a shame if in the future they completely scrapped any Bond girl/romantic subplots.

They're all incredibly rushed, creepy and have an awful power dynamic. I remember Craig's scene with Monica Bellucci causing a bit of a stir because he was 'with a woman his age for once' but even in that scene he's clearly coercing a woman who's just buried her husband a few hours earlier.

Casino Royale's the worst offender  - solid first two thirds and then all of a sudden he and Vespa are in love, spouting cringey dialogue at each other, after only speaking to each other in smarmy quips.

It's not like they need to be preachy, with Bond being sent on an HR course about enthusiastic consent, but who really gives a shit about a middle-aged man with a tiny head making whoopie with 20 year olds?

Mister Six

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2019, 02:41:33 PM »
Shurely the worst is in Quantum of Solace, when he sneaks up on a sex trafficking victim while she's in a shower, then starts groping her?

Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2019, 02:43:40 PM »
That's Skyfall.

gilbertharding

  • Not even the rudest man in the Beatles
Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2019, 04:07:20 PM »
Since the superb reboot of Casino Royale (me fave) it's mainly been meta-commentary on how fucking clapped out and worn down the character is.

'Are you ready to get back to work, 007?'
'Not really, to be honest.'

Even in Skyfall, the second best Craiger, all of Bond's actions only worsen the situation. Barely has any lines, either, only nodding gravely whenever anybody comments about the bags under his eyes.

Can't believe it isn't online fully - but the Alan Coren spoof piece (Dr No will see you now) which begins with the line "Bond tensed in the darkness, and reached for his teeth..." predicted this perfectly.

Bleeding Kansas

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #78 on: December 10, 2019, 07:37:49 PM »
Shurely the worst is in Quantum of Solace, when he sneaks up on a sex trafficking victim while she's in a shower, then starts groping her?

Pretty sure James Bond was at a Pizza Express that night.

Blumf

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #79 on: December 10, 2019, 09:49:54 PM »
Pizza Hut! Bond may be good, but he's not royalty.

machotrouts

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Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #80 on: February 14, 2020, 06:44:16 AM »
The Billie Eilish theme has popped up in the generic Bond megathread but it should probably go here instead.

https://youtu.be/GB_S2qFh5lU

That's it.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

  • National program director of the chum group
Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #81 on: February 14, 2020, 06:51:58 PM »
They clearly should have got Adam Buxton to make it:
https://youtu.be/iN86LixkkrU
https://youtu.be/iAXVeKdrDOM

Thomas

  • please describe an encounter with a squirrel
Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #82 on: August 28, 2020, 07:09:20 PM »
Recently rewatched Casino Royale (the best) and Quantum of Solace.

Despite my recollections, and collective received wisdom, the latter has really leapt up in my estimation. I join that small crowd of positive voices. Really rather a good addendum to Casino. It maintains a surprisingly reflective strain of character work for Bond himself, gives another Bond girl some proper motivation (and allows her to make a point of silently rejecting Bond's depressive, shallow advances at the end), and the action sequences (though often far too choppy) are lean and impactful. Love Bond dropping blokey off the roof. Oddly artful for a Bond flick in the vaunted opera scene. Craig's Bond and Dench's M are a perfect match, and she gets a few scathing jibes and moments of near-maternal fondness (paving the way for Skyfall).

The villainous schemes of Quantum are quite novel, too. Assisting exploitative corporations in their national takeovers. It's a task to come up with villains in the post-Snowden era, when the intelligence services themselves are so frequently known to be the Bad Guys, but they manage it here. Believably sinister, and provides Felix an interesting dilemma in his CIA role. Such a shame Spectre retroactively trampled all over it, chalking everything in the world up to Blofeld's personal grievance rather than systemic political maneuvering. Hopefully that gets explained away in a couple of lines of the upcoming film.

Also dipped into classic Bond with The Living Daylights, the best of the oldies. Dalton and Craig are the boyos for me.

Neomod

  • I'll never make that mistake again
Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #83 on: August 28, 2020, 07:17:47 PM »
Dalton came second to Connery in a recent best Bond poll didn't he.

Good on him, oh and Smiert Spionam!

Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #84 on: August 28, 2020, 08:12:36 PM »
I liked Dalton, particularly The Living Daylights, and he's convincing as an action man, but I think he didn't quite have the charm/humour down (see also: Lazenby). For me, Connery and Craig have the 3 vital components, the aforementioned charm and humour and also believability as tough guys. Brosnan and Moore had the aforementioned in spades but lacked the latter.

I like Quantum of Solace, I'm actually really into Spectre but it seems to be universally hated. I'd probably put Skyfall last out of Craig's four so far.

Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #85 on: August 28, 2020, 08:24:14 PM »
Hopefully that gets explained away in a couple of lines of the upcoming film.

BOND: Say, Blofeld. You look like you've got something to say. Do you?
BLOFELD: Ja I certainly do! I HAVE TO GO NOW. MY PLANET NEEDS ME.
[NOTE - Blofeld died on his way back to his home planet.]

Thomas

  • please describe an encounter with a squirrel
Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2020, 08:32:19 PM »
I liked Dalton, particularly The Living Daylights, and he's convincing as an action man, but I think he didn't quite have the charm/humour down

I like the way Dalton tosses off (ooh) some of his quips. '... Piss off.' Even his introductory 'Bond, James Bond' couldn't give a shit.

Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #87 on: August 28, 2020, 08:45:03 PM »
I like the way Dalton tosses off (ooh) some of his quips. '... Piss off.' Even his introductory 'Bond, James Bond' couldn't give a shit.

Yes! Old post by me on this very subject:


I like the way Dalton delivers the Bond one-liners. All the other actors relish it, camp it up a little or a lot, but Dalton delivers them through gritted teeth. At one point he actually just sighs "piss off".

Dalton was also very good at the "for God's sake, woman!" Bond angle, an oft-overlooked part of the character.

"Switch the bloody machine off!"

"Why didn't you learn the violin?"

Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #88 on: August 29, 2020, 01:29:11 PM »
I love his "Piss off"! I remember finding that so jarring as a kid. Licence To Kill has to be the nastiest, most violent of all the Bond films, surely?

Re: No Time To Die (Bond 25)
« Reply #89 on: August 29, 2020, 01:35:31 PM »
Yeah, they were trying to make it like the kind of 18-certificate action movies that were popular in the 80s. The original version was cut by about 30 seconds by the BBFC, only released uncut in the mid 2000s. Felix Leiter getting eaten by the shark was in the original Live and Let Die novel. I quite like it though.

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