ANTI-SEMITISM IN THE LABOUR PARTY? [Split topic]

[Zetetic]

My hope is that ... the majority of British Jews will find that their fears has been largely drummed up by a rightwing media.

I think that's the case whatever.

But the answer to the very small number of people for whom opposition to Israeli Nationalism and Israel's apartheid has degenerated into racism still isn't "They'll stop being racist here when the government of Israel stops being racist over there.". It's "Get a grip, and stop being a daft counterproductive wanker".

[Funcrusher]

At least we should wait for Labour to lose and wait for instances of blaming the Jews.
And if Labour wins we should wait for the legalised anti-Semitism, violence and the ghettos. Then do something to stop either of those scenarios.

You'll wait until infinity for either of those things as this is all a concoction to destroy a political project that threatens the establishment and nothing more.

[New folder]

OH LETS HAVE THIS DISCUSSION AGAIN GROBBINS ANTISEMITE PAULIE WHERE ARE YOU TELL US WHAT HITLER CROBBINS SAY, WILL THE LAST PERSON TO LEAVE BRITAIN PLEASE SNUFF OUT THOSE JEWISH CANDLE THINGS THEY HAVE

<---- ANTI-SEMITE

[garbed_attic]

Okay, we should leave it. It is best to be positive. While I think claims of abuse seem legitimate, I sincerely doubt Labour would enact any anti-Semitic policies, whereas the Tories are guaranteed to enact policies that continue to kill the disabled and stigmatise Central-Eastern Europeans. So it's not a devil's gambit at the end of the day.

[Zetetic]

Corbyn himself has never said anything that could reasonably be regarded as antisemitic

And parliamentary colleagues, not just those sympathetic to him or from the Labour party, have spoken very clearly of him personally, that he is not.

[Thomas]

Only posting in this thread because it keeps getting bumped anyway. I'm in Ireland and everyone thinks Corbs is a great bunch of lads. IRA shit is complicated and the smears are transparent.

My hope is that Labour will win and that the majority of British Jews will find that their fears has been largely drummed up by a rightwing media.

Correct. Antisemitism exists across society and has been committed by a small number of Labour members (and members of all other parties). It's not institutional to the Labour party, Corbyn himself is not antisemitic, and it certainly doesn't need a caps-lock title thread pinned to the main page on election day.

[New folder]

MURAL RIGHT WING RABBI HATE CRIBBONS SINISTER CONCERNS ALL OVER BRITTEN

[Zetetic]

I'm pretty sure bumping this thread isn't going to tip the election, and that gout_pony isn't an MI5 plant.

(Unless you've been using the XR stuff to get your end away, in which case I might need to reassess whether this has been deep cover for the last few years.)

[chveik]

I'm pretty sure bumping this thread isn't going to tip the election, and that gout_pony isn't an MI5 plant.

yeah obviously, it's just a bit of a cunt move

[Buelligan]

I'm pretty sure bumping this thread isn't going to tip the election, and that gout_pony isn't an MI5 plant.

(Unless you've been using the XR stuff to get your end away, in which case I might need to reassess whether this has been deep cover for the last few years.)

No, but this is pure idiocy.  Dreadful, thoughtless, self-obsessed, idiocy.

Okay, we should leave it. It is best to be positive. While I think claims of abuse seem legitimate, I sincerely doubt Labour would enact any anti-Semitic policies, whereas the Tories are guaranteed to enact policies that continue to kill the disabled and stigmatise Central-Eastern Europeans. So it's not a devil's gambit at the end of the day.

We all have our bad moments, I know gouty's a good and caring person but this conversation is about as negative and poorly timed a thing as is possible.  I'm not contributing to it again.

[Chuck Armstrong]

On second thoughts, not going to bother.

[New folder]

I'm pretty sure bumping this thread isn't going to tip the election, and that gout_pony isn't an MI5 plant.

[imitationleather]

Add me to the list of people who thinks this conversation is really not needed during this twenty-four hours.

[bgmnts]

Corbyn himself has never said anything that could reasonably be regarded as antisemitic

Fucked then.

[ZoyzaSorris]

Right, to summarise, Gouty has unfortunately made a right tit of himself, hopefully we can move on from this and not reply to this thread again.
- END -

[Funcrusher]

On second thoughts, not going to bother.

I thought your post was fine.

[garbed_attic]

Add me to the list of people who thinks this conversation is really not needed during this twenty-four hours.

Apologies. And I am happy not to bump it if others don't reply. I wouldn't post this kind of thing on social media tbh as I know my FB and Twitter friends are potentially swayed by soundbites and have not all been invested in this election. But I know you posters aren't going to be influenced either way by my neuroses. It's probably just pre-election jitters and having been at a funeral with relatives/people I find awkward to talk to anyway.

[garbed_attic]

Apologies. And I am happy not to bump it if others don't reply. I wouldn't post this kind of thing on social media tbh as I know my FB and Twitter friends are potentially swayed by soundbites and have not all been invested in this election. But I know you posters aren't going to be influenced either way by my neuroses. It's probably just pre-election jitters and having been at a funeral with relatives/people I find awkward to talk to anyway.

Right, to summarise, Gouty has unfortunately made a right tit of himself, hopefully we can move on from this and not reply to this thread again.
- END -

[NoSleep]

I mean... the alternative insinuation is that the writer (and many others) is lying about the abuse she's received.

Except you insinuated that "the left" would blame Jews for a Labour defeat in the election today.

[BlodwynPig]

Ugh.

[pcsjwgm]

I am Jewish, I am left-wing and I have examined the evidence for myself and come to the conclusion that Labour, enabled by Corbyn, has become institutionally antisemitic.

No. It really, really is not.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/the-labour-party-institutional-antisemitism-and-irresponsible-politics/

The rest is stuff that's been addressed a thousand times. Most of it is discussed here:
https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4508-antisemitism-and-the-labour-party

One thing that I don't think has been addressed is:

In 2012, during one of his now-infamous appearances on Iran's Press TV, Corbyn baselessly suggests "the hand of Israel" is behind a terror attack on Egyptian police (part of which took place on Israeli soil), alleging that it had been a false-flag attack to "kill Egyptians" and destabilise the relationship between Palestine and the Egyptian government.

This was before the evidence arrived that made clear that this was an Islamist terror attack. So, before all the facts were known, Corbyn was merely speculating that Israel might have been behind it, not asserting that Israel was definitely behind it. Is that necessarily anti-semitic? I don't believe so. In fact, Israel was involved in a well-known (failed) false flag operation in Egypt (the Lavon Affair), which involved a terror attack that was to be blamed on either Islamists, Communists, or Egyptian nationalists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

Israel has also been involved in other terrorist bombing campaigns in the region, particularly in Lebanon:
https://mondoweiss.net/2019/10/it-is-time-to-break-the-silence-on-israeli-terrorist-campaign-in-lebanon-that-killed-100s/

[madhair60]

Way to bump this made-up shite on election day.

[dallasman]

https://medium.com/@sararoseofficial/everything-i-never-wanted-to-have-to-know-about-labour-and-antisemitism-649b5bc1e576?

Thanks for posting, only just finished now. Crikey, this thing is worse than even I thought.

Over the last four years, I have been on the receiving end of a plethora of abuse. I have been told I am in the pay of the Israeli government, I have been called a smear merchant, I have been told I am only trying to protect my money. I have been called a baby murderer, I have been told I am enabling homelessness, I have been mocked and harangued and harassed. I have been told I'm "going on" about antisemitism, that it's getting boring. I have had doubt cast on my political leanings, been met with disbelief and derision when I have explained that I too am left-wing. I have been asked what makes Jews so special that our concerns should be considered above everyone else's (I have never for a moment suggested that they should). I have been called selfish. I have been told to "get over myself" for the "greater good", that thinking about others once in a while ought to make me feel better (this was by someone in my own industry). My fears about antisemitism have been met with replies like "ahh diddums", of having "crocodile tears". Someone tried to arrange a whip-round for a "one-way ticket to Tel-Aviv". I have been told Jews are a cancer on the world. When sharing a story about my childhood, I have had people respond that a Palestinian child would not have the same privilege and nice memories. I have been told I am bringing antisemitism on myself and not helping my cause. I have been told I have mental-health issues (I do, by the way, like most people, but that has nothing to do with anything) I have been called a "boring cunt" (the poster then went on to explain to me how people of all faiths are welcome in Labour — I have never felt so welcome). I have been told to fuck off and join the Tories. I have been told I have it easy compared to the disabled community (I am autistic), I have been on the receiving end of Holocaust denial. When I posted a video of snow falling, someone commented that it was ash from the crematorium. I have been relatively lucky. More prominent Jewish activists (especially women) have been subject to abuse I feel too sick to even list here.

Wow. And she's just made that up, huh? That's weird, because it sounds like a word cloud of the Corbyn threads and their spinoffs. Like the "polite and detailed" thread, which you can read here:

https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,71780.0.html

[Pinball]

Anyway if Labour loses I think it'll put to bed that there is a large coalition of minorities that need to be swayed together.  Elections will be fought on class and racial lines. Further splitting and pitting minorities against each other to get votes. Like in the USA.

I agree. Identity politics is rampant now and the UK has pretty much disintegrated into warring tribes.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

I am Jewish, and cynically weaponising someone's horrible personal experience just to do a bit of trolling on Election day is disgusting and you should be fucking ashamed of yourself. Do not pretend that you actually give a shit about us, because if you did, you wouldn't do it like this

[phantom_power]

The problem is "being told" probably just means some cunt on Twitter has said it, which doesn't reflect well on the amount of awful people on Twitter but doesn't really say anything about the Labour party. It is terrible that people have to face that level of abuse but to equate that with a party that are trying to do good things for all people, Jewish people included, seems a bit of an own goal.

[BlodwynPig]

Thanks for posting, only just finished now. Crikey, this thing is worse than even I thought.

Wow. And she's just made that up, huh? That's weird, because it sounds like a word cloud of the Corbyn threads and their spinoffs. Like the "polite and detailed" thread, which you can read here:

https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,71780.0.html

There is nothing majorly wrong in what she has 'suffered', at worst a bit rude. I see very little anti-semitism - 'jews are the cancer of the world' being the exception. 'Get over yourself' is not anti-semitic.

[Inspector Norse]

To be fair "jews are the cancer of the world" is pretty anti-semitic. On a scale of 1-10 at least a 7 for anti-semitism.

[phantom_power]

Regargless of the veracity of Jewish people's experiences, it is amazing the amount of right wing people who suddenly give a flying fuck about AS, despite apparently not giving a shit pre-Corbyn

[Inspector Norse]

Regargless of the veracity of Jewish people's experiences, it is amazing the amount of right wing people who suddenly give a flying fuck about AS, despite apparently not giving a shit pre-Corbyn

I think it's jealously like when hipsters get all snooty and huffy when Sonic Youth or Bon Iver someone have a hit