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The future of the Labour Party: Where does it go from here?

Started by Nowhere Man, December 13, 2019, 06:20:10 PM

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colacentral

Quote from: Armin Meiwes on February 02, 2020, 09:26:39 PM
Well surely he's below every MP that briefed against Corbyn and that refused to serve in his shadow cabinet (and that's a pretty long list).

I get the impression from Starmer that the only reason he never came out slating Corbyn is that he was keeping his head below the parapet. He's doing the same now, trying to be all things to all people in the name of uniting the party. I find that very concerning.

Buelligan

Quote from: Kelvin on February 02, 2020, 11:15:50 PM
But once they are elected, they don't need to worry about their popularity with the membership. They can pursue their own ideology, the one shared by the media class, the PLP, and a portion of the electorate that they think matters the most - the middle class. Starmers not going to announce a sudden move to Blairism, but at the very least, we will see a move back towards the watered down nothingy politics of Ed Miliband, and even if the left isn't shut out completely (by making it harder for a left-winger to stand in future leadership elections), at the very least, the left will be excluded once more from the machinery of politics, setting us back to the start with any future leader.

Corbyn suffered a defining, permanently damaging hit at the start of his leadership, because he and his team lacked experience in opposition. If you ever want to have the slightest hope of a left wing prime minister, we need the left running the opposition for long enough that they have experience, like-minded MP's, an active, engaged membership, and a public that sees them as the new norm, not a dalliance with a fringe ideology. By electing Starmer, or any centrist, you set the clock back to 0. None of the current leaderships hopefuls have much chance of winning an election after boundary changes (etc), so we might as well back the one who will keep the left in play, rather than the one who sets us back again - most likely for no electoral benefit whatsoever.           

Absolutely, it means all the struggle and loss is for nothing, worse than that, we didn't even learn anything.  thugler speaks of delusion, I can't imagine anything much more delusional than trusting Starmer.  Nandy's the same, of course.  Two people that should be working hard as good constituency MPs, voting with the whip and leaving it at that.

NoSleep

Quote from: BlodwynPig on February 02, 2020, 08:20:38 PM
When's this happening. Remember someone saying this 5 years ago.

Five years ago there was no Brexit.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: NoSleep on February 03, 2020, 08:24:36 AM
Five years ago there was no Brexit.

Not the point. 5 years ago others, maybe you, were saying "just wait, the bovine masses will soon see the light and embrace our values" "the veil will be lifted and the evil at the heart of politics will be revealed for all to see"

jobotic

What's brexit going to do to damage them? All the Tories who didn't want a burn the economy to the ground and remove all employment rights, human rights and environmental protections are gone. He has a huge majority of like minded far-right maniacs cheering him on. And almost all the media on board (and happy that their boy is in).

The only thing that might damage any of them is personal ambition and internal politics.

BlodwynPig

Remember when a rocket was fired through the windows of no. 10 in the 90s. Good old days

QuoteOnce the sound of the explosion and aftershock had died down, John Major said, "I think we had better start again, somewhere else."

NoSleep

Quote from: BlodwynPig on February 03, 2020, 09:45:49 AM
Not the point. 5 years ago others, maybe you, were saying "just wait, the bovine masses will soon see the light and embrace our values" "the veil will be lifted and the evil at the heart of politics will be revealed for all to see"

Five years ago there was nothing on Labour's table except tepid Tory-lite policies and the fear to vote against Tory welfare bills. Those weren't "our" values.

Buelligan

I had my little Monday morning excursion and treat, to the local shop to do my local shopping this morning. 

Interacted with three people.  One eighty-odd French woman, who's taken a shine to me, holding my trolley so's I can't even move on without injuring her, explaining to me how Britain is the "leader of the world", an empire and that, even though its premier ministre may appear to be a clown he's actually extremely intelligent but the world has been taken over by communists and Arabs so France is fucked anyway.  An English man, not much younger, telling me that homosexuality is evil and a mental illness and that Arabs have more rights in France than he has.  And a middle aged French fellow winking and laughing merrily about England's inglorious performance at the rugby in Paris.  This last made the old Brit gammon, I thought he'd have an aneurysm and I'd be forced to pretend not to notice until too late.  All of this entirely unprompted or based on previous interactions.

I hold out little hope for the wisdoming-up of the humans.

Nevertheless, we must continue the fight.  If there is one thing the Brits are good at it's not acknowledging how completely fucked they are and fighting on anyway.  We should harness some of that.  Possibly, a lot of that.

Zetetic

Welsh Labour councillors, AMs and MPs now protesting the shuttering of services at a hospital driven by a programme of Welsh Government (Welsh Labour) and enabled by a scandal enacted by the same.

Wish I could get any of them to actually do anything on privatisation than sign pledges...

bgmnts

Quote from: Zetetic on February 03, 2020, 10:36:36 AM
Welsh Labour councillors, AMs and MPs now protesting the shuttering of services at a hospital driven by a programme of Welsh Government (Welsh Labour) and enabled by a scandal enacted by the same.

Wish I could get any of them to actually do anything on privatisation than sign pledges...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-51339901

Bit of a weird story here .

Wales is so fucked.

BlodwynPig


bgmnts

Quote from: BlodwynPig on February 03, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
fucked since you decided to get into bed with the fucking English scum

In the sense a victim gets into bed with their abuser.

BlodwynPig

in the sense a bald pasty man sunbathes neath a dog on a balcony


imitationleather

Quote from: jobotic on February 03, 2020, 04:03:52 PM
Starmer's done a webchat with mumsnet. The topic of many of these questions is not surprising.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/3810484-Webchat-with-Labour-leadership-contender-Sir-Keir-Starmer-MP-on-Monday-February-3-at-1-30pm

Is it compulsory that this happens to you when you have kids or something?

When my mum gets back from Cuba I'm going to ring her up to see if she's a TERF as well.


imitationleather


machotrouts



Oh you know, that website, for parents. No, not that one, the other one. With the biscuits. And the swearing.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: machotrouts on February 03, 2020, 05:52:41 PM


Oh you know, that website, for parents. No, not that one, the other one. With the biscuits. And the swearing.

Pornhub and Mumsnet, together at last.

Death of humanity right there

Cuellar


king_tubby

I would guess at Netmums, which is Mumsnet for working class mothers.

imitationleather


king_tubby

Not a site I'm aware of. I'll google - what's your username there?

Pink Gregory

Bristol West backed RLB/Butler.

Also learned that I can't really do meetings because I hid in a toilet for most of it.

Also someone called him Keith Starmer.

Sebastian Cobb

Keith would be more apt based on the soundbite I heard from him on the wireless at the weekend. Such hollow, pedestrian, aids-tier 'values of the Carphone Warehouse' rhetoric; political platitudes that inspire about as much excitement as an empty wet bus.

We might have left Europe, but between him and Boris we've got weltschmerz on vocals and ennui on bass.

idunnosomename

seems a bit bad for a labour member to not be familiar with the name Keir

Pink Gregory

To be fair I think it was a slip on the tongue.  The young lad was advocating for him.

idunnosomename

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Young lad, you have 55 seconds on Keir Starmer

greencalx

I believe Dawn is now IN.

Not sure how many parties will ultimately nominate but there's a couple of weeks left. Looking at the numbers I think Murray will make it IN but Thornberry won't.


chveik

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on February 03, 2020, 09:56:26 PM
We might have left Europe, but between him and Boris we've got weltschmerz on vocals and ennui on bass.

very good