Tenet

[Hand Solo]

Haven't seen this yet but I had the same thought when I watched the trailer. With modern filmmaking I felt sure they'd be able to make the effects look slicker, polished or more interesting, but it really does look like the footage is just running backwards and any second Lister is going to shout "unrumble" and dive backwards down a bar.

So Arthur Smith was addressing Christopher Nolan all along? Now that's a twist!

[popcorn]

It does suffer slightly from a lot of footage of, for example, people running urgently in reverse over airfields, and it looking a bit funny.

[SteveDave]

I saw this today and really liked it.

I burst into hysterics when Noel Edmonds turned up as the baddie.

[wasp_f15ting]

Eurgh..

Why did they cut the UK movie.. so annoying.
I am going to have to cancel my preorder now and get the US Disc.

So shady of WB to allow the cut so they get a 12A.. greedy cunts that worked out well for you didn't it

[SteveDave]

What did they cut out? The cheese grater punch? Or Edmonds

Spoiler alert

body hitting the side of the boat as he fell

[close]

?

EDIT- Oh it's when he

Spoiler alert

kicks the giraffe woman when she's on the floor

[close]

. You're not really missing much in those 9 seconds are you?

[surreal]

EDIT- You're not really missing much in those 9 seconds are you?

When they cut the headbutt out of the Matrix on its first release, I'm pretty sure they had to remove the commentary tracks too so it will be interesting to see if the extras are different for the UK.

[frajer]

When they cut the headbutt out of the Matrix on its first release, I'm pretty sure they had to remove the commentary tracks too so it will be interesting to see if the extras are different for the UK.

It is so weird when they do that. Same happened for the first DVD release of Batman Returns when they took out a Cat/Bat headbutt and Tim Burton's commentary had to go too.

Apparently it's something to do with commentary tracks having to be submitted to the BBFC as another "version" of the film (with equivalent costs as submitting the original film) so it's not always simple to justify the cost.

[frajer]

Watched this over the weekend looking for some slick action thrill and spills, but thought it was a bit of a stinker. Not an outright disaster but skirts dangerously close to winning some Razzies.

The complaints about dialogue being unclear are spot-on and I gave up trying to follow the most muffled conversations.

Despite their best efforts the backwards effects look surprisingly cheap and often silly, heightened by the ludicrous seriousness which the film treats them. Since that's its USP, there's not much left over. Cast were decent but they were given sod all to work with.

I have a grudging admiration for Nolan in that he's utterly slavish to how he thinks films "should" be, even when it's at a detriment to the end product. But by far my favourite Nolan films are Memento and The Prestige, the small scale of which he seems determined to get as far away from as possible.

[Alberon]

Finally got to see this myself and thought the dialogue was actually quite clear compared to some films I've watched. Technically it's very well done, and I could follow what was going on, but ultimately it's very hard to care about the film. It raises strong questions about free will - as the world seems as much predetermined going forward as it is going backwards - but is totally unequipped to even begin to answer them. It makes a good stab at time running forward and backwards, but I suspect if you sat down and examined it closely the logic of the thing would totally fall apart.

The whole thing is tied up with a neat little bow as time travel stories often are, but it is easily the least of Nolan's SF films.

EDIT: Looking at all the complaints about inaudible dialogue, perhaps it has been reworked for the digital release because it sounded crystal clear to me.

[popcorn]

I saw it in the cinema (only film I saw in a cinema all year, completely empty). I don't actually remember having problems hearing the dialogue so much as finding the whole thing impenetrable and boring at a sort of fundamental level.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Finally got to see this myself and thought the dialogue was actually quite clear compared to some films I've watched. Technically it's very well done, and I could follow what was going on, but ultimately it's very hard to care about the film. It raises strong questions about free will - as the world seems as much predetermined going forward as it is going backwards - but is totally unequipped to even begin to answer them. It makes a good stab at time running forward and backwards, but I suspect if you sat down and examined it closely the logic of the thing would totally fall apart.

The whole thing is tied up with a neat little bow as time travel stories often are, but it is easily the least of Nolan's SF films.

EDIT: Looking at all the complaints about inaudible dialogue, perhaps it has been reworked for the digital release because it sounded crystal clear to me.

Yeah I didn't have any trouble hearing what they were saying and likewise wondered if they'd redone the mix for home release. I still didn't understand half of what they were talking about though, but that might be more to do with me being thick.

[Custard]

Been reading online that a lot of people are watching this with subtitles on. Might give that a go myself

The opening of the cinema showing I attended was so ridiculously noisy that I almost went to talk to the front desk. But after the first scene it was turned down somewhat. It was excruciating though

[Thomas]

Not seen Tenet, but I watched The Prestige for the first time at the weekend.

Viewed on its own merit, I thought it was brilliant. Viewed with Nolan's trajectory in mind, I could see what the plot mechanics of 'cleverness' were doing. But in The Prestige, at least, he's written them enough emotional padding that the film is enjoyable and involving rather than simply a clinical map of plot points. Fave Nolan film. I can even remember the protagonists' names.

[Magnum Valentino]

It is so weird when they do that. Same happened for the first DVD release of Batman Returns when they took out a Cat/Bat headbutt and Tim Burton's commentary had to go too.

Apparently it's something to do with commentary tracks having to be submitted to the BBFC as another "version" of the film (with equivalent costs as submitting the original film) so it's not always simple to justify the cost.

It was the second DVD release - the first was in one of those snapper cases and had no extras. The 2005 2-disc reissues were timed to coincide with Batman Begins. It was such a last-minute thing that Burton's commentary is still listed on the back of the case.

AND was it not the shot of the aerosols going into the Microwave in the Shreck department store that the BBFC balked at (although they have proven distaste for headbutts elsewhere)?

AND AND was the commentary not removed because the removal of said shot knocked the commentary out of sync by enough precious seconds to cause a nuisance?

[thugler]

I suspect if you sat down and examined it closely the logic of the thing would totally fall apart.

Yeah I don't think it required sitting down. It didn't make sense on any level and was inconsistently applied. To the point that the motivations for the actions of main characters were completely incoherent. Can you do whatever you want in backwards land or not? It seems like not, but also you can. Do you need a special oxygen tank? yes, and then no.

It's an amazingly bad film. Even the technical aspects that people fawn over Nolan for are again completely lacking in imagination. Boring men in grey shooting at other boring men in grey for some reason.  The final shootout thing was like watching someone play a very boring video game.

[frajer]

It was the second DVD release - the first was in one of those snapper cases and had no extras. The 2005 2-disc reissues were timed to coincide with Batman Begins. It was such a last-minute thing that Burton's commentary is still listed on the back of the case.

AND was it not the shot of the aerosols going into the Microwave in the Shreck department store that the BBFC balked at (although they have proven distaste for headbutts elsewhere)?

AND AND was the commentary not removed because the removal of said shot knocked the commentary out of sync by enough precious seconds to cause a nuisance?

Ah yep, was the 2-disc re-releases rather than the barren original "Special Features: Theatrical Trailer" discs.

Not sure about the aerosols but there was definitely a Cat/Bat headbutt that got the snip in the original home release.

Can you do whatever you want in backwards land or not? It seems like not, but also you can. Do you need a special oxygen tank? yes, and then no.

Just remembered that in Tenet a time-inverted explosion freezes you to death, which is such a fucking silly idea. In a different film it could be fun, but in a film this po-faced just comes off as stupid.

[thugler]

Just remembered that in Tenet a time-inverted explosion freezes you to death, which is such a fucking silly idea. In a different film it could be fun, but in a film this po-faced just comes off as stupid.

That was silly, but i'd be completely forgiving of that sort of thing if it was clear what was going on and how it worked in simple terms and the rules of the world were consistent. It failed on all three of these. In fact that idea has potential in a comic book kind of way, but really nothing imaginative was done with it.

[frajer]

That was silly, but i'd be completely forgiving of that sort of thing if it was clear what was going on and how it worked in simple terms and the rules of the world were consistent. It failed on all three of these. In fact that idea has potential in a comic book kind of way, but really nothing imaginative was done with it.

Yeah. Definitely a world-building problem, but I'd say also a tonal issue. If you expect people to seriously mention that "of course an inverted fire freezes you" in such a sombre film, you're gonna get a lot of laughs.

There's some people who argue Nolan knows how silly he's being and is in fact tipping a wink to the audience with this stuff, but I don't see it myself.

[PlanktonSideburns]

Yeah. Definitely a world-building problem, but I'd say also a tonal issue. If you expect people to seriously mention that "of course an inverted fire freezes you" in such a sombre film, you're gonna get a lot of laughs.

There's some people who argue Nolan knows how silly he's being and is in fact tipping a wink to the audience with this stuff, but I don't see it myself.

its not enough of a wink is it?

watched the film snowpiercer the otherday - thats how you do this sort of thing, make it so much fun you dont have time to notice that it dosent make sense

[frajer]

its not enough of a wink is it?

Nah, nor for me either.

A valid point which I think Kermode made is that Nolan's desire to make his films as bloodless as possible to ensure a lower age rating also remove a shit-ton of the danger from them.

An epic battle between two elite armed forces, half of which are moving backwards in time, should be intense and exhilarating and feel chaotic and dangerous. Like you could get your head blown off by some savvy inverted bastard before you've even had time to think about taking out your gun. Instead it all somehow feels flat and weightless.

Imagine a director like Verhoeven tackling that same sequence. Carnage. Brilliant.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

But all you have to do is not walk in front of any bullet holes in the wall and you'll be fine.

[notjosh]

Not seen Tenet, but I watched The Prestige for the first time at the weekend.

Viewed on its own merit, I thought it was brilliant. Viewed with Nolan's trajectory in mind, I could see what the plot mechanics of 'cleverness' were doing. But in The Prestige, at least, he's written them enough emotional padding that the film is enjoyable and involving rather than simply a clinical map of plot points. Fave Nolan film. I can even remember the protagonists' names.

The Prestige is great, and the only Nolan film with any kind of emotional pull. I think Rebecca Hall is very good in it and instrumental in making you care. She basically comes across as a normal, rounded human being trying to cope with the consequences of being married to

Spoiler alert

a clever Christopher Nolan plot device

[close]

.

Really couldn't find a single person or thing to like or care about in Tenet. I agree with the comments that it should have been played for fun. Like, how do they serve drinks in the special backwards cocktail bar? What happens if you get into one of those machines and have backwards sex with yourself?

Or just two and a half hours of this sort of thing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/reverseanimalrescue/top/

[frajer]

R Patz solemnly intoning to Denzil Jr "If you need to take a shit while inverted, make sure your pants are down because one way or another that turd is getting back into your anus."

[Phil_A]

There does to be something deficient in Nolan's imagination, some vital spark of creativity that's missing. He deals in big concepts and grand ideas, but usually realised in flat, drab, very conservative ways. He also seems to fall back on fetishism of military tech a depressing amount of the time.

Inception: A heist film that takes place inside the fantastical realm of dreams!
- Dreams look and behave exactly the same as reality except sometimes the room spins or something.

Tenet: Mysterious forces from the future wage war on the present and have the ability to reverse the very law of cause and effect itself!
- Some soldiers have a big fight but some of it's backwards.

[amputeeporn]

There does to be something deficient in Nolan's imagination, some vital spark of creativity that's missing. He deals in big concepts and grand ideas, but usually realised in flat, drab, very conservative ways. He also seems to fall back on fetishism of military tech a depressing amount of the time.

Inception: A heist film that takes place inside the fantastical realm of dreams!
- Dreams look and behave exactly the same as reality except sometimes the room spins or something.

Tenet: Mysterious forces from the future wage war on the present and have the ability to reverse the very law of cause and effect itself!
- Some soldiers have a big fight but some of it's backwards.

I think this is very true - he's not an exciting director, rather a high end thriller merchant. Taken on those terms I found this to be a fine couple of hours. Probably not worth whatever amount of money it cost but a fine entertainment with some genuinely exhilarating and fun moments. TBH I found it much more fun than Inception, which felt telegraphed from beginning to end - at least the vague incomprehensibility of this meant that it was capable of the odd surprise. Not sure I ever totally bought the lead but R Patz looked nicely burned out and tired. He could have some interesting roles ahead of him.

[thugler]

its not enough of a wink is it?

watched the film snowpiercer the otherday - thats how you do this sort of thing, make it so much fun you dont have time to notice that it dosent make sense

This is a great example, a film that feels far more dreamlike than anything in Inception and is endlessly imaginative.

I'd say inception is perhaps his 2nd worst film after this. So much bloody boring shooting.

The Prestige is indeed very good, but I still don't think the ending is satisfying

Spoiler alert

though this is was probably from the book. Basically I don't think introducing a supernatural/real magic element right at the end is a good idea. It's a bit of a cop out

[close]

. The twist of Borden

Spoiler alert

having a twin brother

[close]

was also poorly handled and obvious. I feel the same about the ending to his Batman 2 which is also very good.

[dissolute ocelot]

I think this is very true - he's not an exciting director, rather a high end thriller merchant. Taken on those terms I found this to be a fine couple of hours. Probably not worth whatever amount of money it cost but a fine entertainment with some genuinely exhilarating and fun moments. TBH I found it much more fun than Inception, which felt telegraphed from beginning to end - at least the vague incomprehensibility of this meant that it was capable of the odd surprise. Not sure I ever totally bought the lead but R Patz looked nicely burned out and tired. He could have some interesting roles ahead of him.

Patz can be a fun actor if people know how to use him (being quiet and not doing too much), he's good in Cronenberg's Cosmopolis, for instance, although pitching him against Willem Dafoe (in The Lighthouse) or Juliette Binoche (High Life) is stretching his talents too far.

I think Nolan's best film is maybe Dunkirk: he's constrained by reality and by a tight time-frame, and basically just tries to make it exciting by doing interesting and unusual things while trying to be as realistic as possible. In contrast, the fight scenes in Inception are much duller and more video-game-like (especially the snow one). But it sounds like I should watch The Prestige, which I never saw on account of watching The Illusionist (Ed Norton/Paul Giamatti) and having had enough of 19th century magicians for a while.

[popcorn]

I love The Prestige. It has a very satisfying plot.

[13 schoolyards]

I think The Prestige really benefitted from being based on a (well thought out) novel. It definitely suited Nolan's interests (and he did change a few things), but it also shored up his weak spots (characterisation, human interaction).

I'm slightly surprised Nolan (to date) hasn't worked with Hugh Jackman again, as it seemed like he gave the better performance out of the two leads. Possibly Nolan hates Australians, as he hasn't worked with Guy Pearce again either.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I think Nolan's first three films are all excellent (Following, Memento, Insomnia) and I still think Batman Begins is his best Batman film. I haven't watched The Prestige since it was at the cinema so might have to give it another go, I was on a date that didn't go particularly well so was a bit distracted...

I don't think he's made any bad films, looking at his filmography it's pretty impressive, but Tenet definitely the one I like the least. Also, I find his films impress me a lot more on first watch but don't hold up as well to repeat viewings, possibly due to all the "woah, stop the plot and watch this crazy set piece for the next 20 mins" moments.