Obvious Things You 0nly Just Realised - 2020

[petril]

Aye, the convention is meaningless but the British colour coding predates the American one. Apparently some networks used to go with red for left and blue for right, but at some point one network made the decision that the current way was more logically correct because Red = Republican. Jesus wept if so.

the bold Red of communism and the brits

[JaDanketies]

And Democrats are way more of the plain crisps of the world.

[touchingcloth]

If Walkers made Democrats, they'd probably be green.

[gib]

Engineer is not derived from engine but the other way round. Engineer derives from the latin ingeniator, sharing common roots with the word ingenious.

etymonline (which admittedly isn't always right) disagrees

c. 1300, "mechanical device

https://www.etymonline.com/word/engine#etymonline_v_8676

mid-14c., enginour

https://www.etymonline.com/word/engineer#etymonline_v_25786

[NoSleep]

Engineers make all kinds of things (not just engines). The word has a similar meaning to the word designer.

[gib]

Engineers make all kinds of things (not just engines). The word has a similar meaning to the word designer.

Yes, the meaning of the word evolved, like so many words. I don't see what this has to do with the question of which word derived from which.

[NoSleep]

You missed this from that page you linked to (related to the verb "to engineer") which also dates back to the 13th century (and shows how the word evolved):

1818, "act as an engineer," from engineer (n.). Figurative sense of "arrange, contrive, guide or manage (via ingenuity or tact)" is attested from 1864, originally in a political context. Related: Engineered. Middle English had a verb engine "contrive, construct" (late 14c.), also "seduce, trick, deceive" (c. 1300) and "put to torture."

Similar to how the word "art" originally derived from words like artful and artless implying some kind or lack) of trickery or artifice.

I guess people back then were generally suspicious of those who could think their way through situations.

[NoSleep]

Also from those pages you linked:

mid-14c., enginour, "constructor of military engines," from Old French engigneor "engineer, architect, maker of war-engines; schemer" (12c.), from Late Latin ingeniare

[Dex Sawash]

One who gets in the gin, right in there

[dissolute ocelot]

Aye, the convention is meaningless but the British colour coding predates the American one. Apparently some networks used to go with red for left and blue for right, but at some point one network made the decision that the current way was more logically correct because Red = Republican. Jesus wept if so.

Wikipedia has a long history of election map colouring. There was no standard until 2000, with different networks using different things, and many tried to mix it up rather than keep fixed colours. NBC reportedly decided to use blue for the incumbents in 2000 which is how they made the Democrats blue; CBS had used blue for Democrats from 1984; ABC had yellow Republicans in 1976. As touchingcloth says, that bastion of intellectualism the The New York Times reportedly decided on red=Republican in 2000 purely for alliterative reasons (I guess it's as good a way to choose as any). Even in 2000 on election night there was no standardisation, but after the election the current scheme gradually became shared and a meme was born. Apparently the Californian Republican Party now has blue as its official colour, so they can hide in swimming pools for nefarious sexual purposes.

[gib]

Also from those pages you linked:

You are correct. According to John Ayto:

[kalowski]

You are correct. According to John Ayto:

My copy of Chambers' agrees: ingenium originally meant "mother wit"

[gib]

hang on, Ayto seems to be saying engine preceded engineer

[NoSleep]

He's saying (a word that meant) ingenious preceded them both.

[gib]

On that we can agree.

[zomgmouse]

what about engineers on ships?

[The Cloud of Unknowing]

What about Farokh Engineer?

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

Donald Trump's name means Donald Fart.

[Cerys]

I think you'll find it actually means Duck Fart.

[Gulftastic]

I think you'll find it actually means Duck Fart.

A woo-oo

[touchingcloth]

What about Farokh Engineer?

The spelling is actually based on a misunderstanding. It should really be Faroukh Enginier, because he's more enginey than most other Faroukhs, however he is not the enginest.

[beanheadmcginty]

When people refer to "Clive" on here, as in a phrase like "Not for me Clive", they are referencing a football commentator and not, as I had always assumed, Keith Floyd's cameraman.

[touchingcloth]

Oh. I thought it was some kind of reference to Clive Anderson, maybe to the Bee Gees interview in some way I was too much of a dunce to grasp.

[Dex Sawash]

Donald Trump's name means Donald Fart.

Make Trumps Farts Again

[Paul Calf]

'Babel' is Babylon.

[Icehaven]

It's dock leaves, not doc as in doctor because they heal nettle stings.

[Menu]

Aye, the convention is meaningless but the British colour coding predates the American one. Apparently some networks used to go with red for left and blue for right, but at some point one network made the decision that the current way was more logically correct because Red = Republican. Jesus wept if so.

No, up until 2000 blue was used for the incumbent and red was used for the challenger. But because of the drawn-out ending to the 2000 election blue just became permanently attached to the Dems(who were the incumbents) and red for the Republicans.

[Ambient Sheep]

It's especially bewildering coming from the country that brought us the phrase "reds under the bed".

[touchingcloth]

No, up until 2000 blue was used for the incumbent and red was used for the challenger. But because of the drawn-out ending to the 2000 election blue just became permanently attached to the Dems(who were the incumbents) and red for the Republicans.

Not according the Wiki page someone else posted earlier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states

There were some places that used blue for the incumbents, but it wasn't a standard thing and didn't become one until the 2000 election cemented it in the brains of the public. NBC's use of blue for incumbent would have fed into that, but it's not the whole story.

By 1996, color schemes were relatively mixed, as CNN, CBS, ABC, and The New York Times referred to Democratic states with the color blue and Republican ones as red, while Time and The Washington Post used the opposite scheme. NBC used the color blue for the incumbent party, which is why blue represented the Democrats in 2000.

In the days following the 2000 election, whose outcome was unclear for some time after election day, major media outlets began conforming to the same color scheme because the electoral map was continually in view, and conformity made for easy and instant viewer comprehension. On election night that year, there was no coordinated effort to code Democratic states blue and Republican states red; the association gradually emerged. Partly as a result of this eventual and near-universal color-coding, the terms "red states" and "blue states" entered popular use in the weeks following the 2000 presidential election.

[buzby]

When people refer to "Clive" on here, as in a phrase like "Not for me Clive", they are referencing a football commentator and not, as I had always assumed, Keith Floyd's cameraman.

Clive Tyldesley, specifically the phrase 'Not for me, Clive' which was coined by his ITV co-commentator Andy Townshend