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Wanting to get into old Doctor Who

Started by madhair60, January 08, 2020, 10:20:49 AM

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madhair60

1) Should I watch everything? It's all "available" (with obvious exceptions, missing eps, etc)
2) If not, where to start?
3) Is there any particular DVD set worth getting? I'm very interested in production info, etc
4) I really want to like the programme and indeed have enjoyed what I've seen (a lot of McCoy, a fair bit of Colin Baker, a snifter of Tom), please help me to do this.

maett

I'd always say start with Tom Baker's first season and watch up until series 17.  See how you like series 18 and if it's not doing it. skip to Davison's first series  Or back to Pertwee's first series. Do Troughton before Colin Baker and McCoy.  Hartnell  episodes are slow but if you like Troughton Do them before Baker II and McCoy.
But everyone is going to tell you differently.
Watch everything? Hmm there are stories I've not been able to watch because I've found them too boring/slow/badly made/embarrassingly acted (Spcae Museum/ Delta and the Bannermen) and yet I consider myself a fan of 48 years.  The only doctors I've managed to watch and enjoy (to some level) completely are Troughton to Davison.

Deanjam

1. Yes watch everything. Everything that exists is available on DVD / streaming.
2. Where to start is difficult. Personally I'd go with An Unearthly Child. Some people start with Spearhead from Space as it's the first colour story and everything from that point has survived. Luckily if really doesn't matter as almost every story is self contained.
3. All the DVD's have lots of production extras, including commentaries. The new bluray sets that cover a full season are all terrific if you can get them at a reasonable price. Season 10 is a good place to start.
4. Hope this helps.

Jerzy Bondov


Jerzy Bondov

Serious reply:

If you've managed to get some enjoyment out of McCoy and Colin then the world is your oyster. Jump in anywhere. Here is how I got into old Doctor Who:

It was 1993, the 30th anniversary year. As well as the shockingly poor anniversary episode 'Dimensions in Time', the BBC showed a few old stories. I watched the third part of Planet of the Daleks. I didn't know what was going on. I loved it. At some point after that I also watched The Sontaran Experiment - I vividly remember Tom dropping his hat to see if it was windy. Then, ages later, after the new series had started, I bought Caves of Androzani on a whim. I loved it. Then I bought The Beginning set (essential purchase) and after that just started jumping around all over the place watching whatever I fancied. I think because I first encountered it partway through a story, I've never really minded watching them out of order or not knowing who companions are.

If you just watch the ones you like the sound of without caring about the order, you avoid this: You want to watch INFERNO because it's amazing. But you can't watch Inferno without knowing more about the character of the Brigadier; he first appears in The Web of Fear so watch that. After that you should also watch The Invasion, so you can see where UNIT comes from. But you won't really get The Invasion if you don't know the Cybermen, so you'd better watch The Tenth Planet at the very least. Then you can watch Inferno, except you won't know why the Doctor is exiled so you should watch The War Games and Spearhead from Space. In fact, probably best to watch Doctor Who and the Silurians and Ambassadors of Death, so you get the full buildup to Inferno.

Or you could just watch fucking INFERNO, one of the best stories ever made. Don't worry about continuity. The show itself barely bothers so why should you?

Maybe start with Season 12, as maett suggests. If you don't like 12-14 then Doctor Who is not for you and we don't need any more cunts with wrong opinions about Doctor Who so just fuck right off.

Doctor Who is probably the best served TV show in terms of DVD extras of all time. Every set has something interesting on it. The production notes subtitle tracks are excellent. I'd really recommend The Beginning set but you can't go wrong really. Unfortunately the Blu-Ray of Season 12 is mad expensive, otherwise that would be a no brainer.

Norton Canes

I certainly wouldn't recommend watching any Doctor's run right through before staring on another. In fact, I would advocate a 'no repetition' policy until you've seen two or three stories for each Doctor. Yes, even Colin Baker.

Norton Canes

#6
Apart from that, I always try to avoid recommending specific stories. For one thing everyone has different tastes; and for another, if you start by watching all the generally accepted 'classics' first, you'll be left with all the... not classics. Although maybe you'll enjoy them too. The great thing about classic Who is that there isn't a single story which doesn't have something to commend it - though those 'positives' can often be hilariously bad performances/dialogue/effects etc.

Basically the entirety of classic Who is a lovely warm melange of plummy character actors, bizarre plots, absolute diamonds of quotable dialogue and just a sense that everyone involved is trying - to the best of their abilities, and not always in harmony - to create a wonderful, beautiful show. As long as you're prepared to accept it's almost always painted on a canvas of three-walled studio sets and bitterly cold gravel pits, and moves at the pace of tree sap, all you need to do is sit back and drink it in.

Jerzy Bondov


daf

#8
Quote from: madhair60 on January 08, 2020, 10:20:49 AM
1) Should I watch everything? It's all "available" (with obvious exceptions, missing eps, etc)

Yes - and I'm including the missing episodes in that - via the Loose Cannon re-cons.

Quote from: madhair60 on January 08, 2020, 10:20:49 AM
2) If not, where to start?

The 70's stuff - Well that's what I did - but I soon found myself spreading back into the 60's, and forwards into the 80's.

Quote from: madhair60 on January 08, 2020, 10:20:49 AM
3) Is there any particular DVD set worth getting? I'm very interested in production info, etc

All the DVDs are great for behind the scenes documentaries - The Restoration Team list all the special features on the DVDs - so you can get an idea of what's available - click on DVD on side sidebar, and then the individual story (they're in the order they were released on DVD, rather than broadcast, first ones on the bottom, last ones at the top).

If you have a blu ray player, I'd strongly recommend the new blu ray 'season' sets they're releasing - (the next one is Season 26) - as for £40 you get all the stuff on the original (4 - 5 or 6) DVD's, plus new extras. These sell out quickly though - but season 12 is getting a re-release soon-ish, apparently.


Norton Canes

#9
I suppose it might be worth clarifying exactly what you'll get from each 'era' of the show.

The Hartnell stories are, despite the best efforts of the restoration teams, pretty crackly and fuzzy. Which only serves to add to their charm, of course. Mostly the feel you get through Hartnell's three seasons is that the successive production teams really hadn't settled on what the show was supposed to be doing, so there are plenty of 'historicals' (no aliens) and lots of stories that make you think "thank fuck the show didn't try that more often" (plus lots that make you think "If only!"). Things do get a bit faster-paced with Troughton, and also a bit more formulaic - expect to see more monsters, as the show makers realised they could cycle the Daleks, Cybermen, Ice Warriors and Yeti almost indefinitely.

Most of the Pertwee era is of course 'The Doctor teams up with the army's shooting aliens division', though there are some visits off-world, and plenty of his stories contain fantastic 70's-themed political allegories. Tom Baker effectively breaks down into three sub-eras, as each of his three producers had a different vision. His first three seasons (12-14) are the 'Gothic horror' seasons that got the show in all kinds of trouble with Mary Whitehouse. Expect lots of gloomy, gruesome stories and some lovely budget body horror. Tom is spectacularly broody throughout and whether you like that sort of stuff or not, it's hard to argue that this era doesn't represent the show's highest production values (adjusted for their vintage, of course). 15-17 are (mostly) more fanciful and light-hearted; unfortunately they also mark the point Tom's ego got the better of him and he dicks about whenever possible. Some people like this. Season 18 heralds the start of the 80's and basically Tom has a season-long sulk because the new producer won't let him dick about.

Thankfully Peter Davison takes over and we get three years of generally worthy but often rather too beige adventures. Colin Baker's first season is an over-violent clusterfuck that saw the show put on hiatus for 18 months; his second is a shambles, made by a production team that was basically at each other's throats. Sylvester McCoy comes as something of a relief after that; his three seasons look like something from CBBC but they're generally not lacking ambition or imagination, and they have a kind of ramshackle charm.

Bad Ambassador

1) Yes, but there's no need to rush. I didn't get round to my last complete story for over a decade.
2) Thanks to the VHS era and sporadic repeats, I watched the series in a near-random order. There's so little connection from one story to the next that you can jump around without worrying you'll miss anything.
3) As mentioned, almost all the DVDs are loaded with extras, particularly commentaries by cast and crew and production note subtitles. A good choice to start might be The Beginning, which collects the first 13 episodes/three stories and the unbroadcast pilot, while recommended individual releases include Spearhead from Space, Robot and Remembrance of the Daleks for having all launched new eras of the show.
4) You might find some of the b/w stories and the longer Pertwees a stretch, as the pace of television might be much slower than you're used to, but patience pays off.

As a cheap addendum to the DVDs, reconstructions of all the missing episodes are floating around online and are 'available'. The most recent ones are surprisingly watchable. I watched The Daleks' Master Plan last month, of which only three episodes survive of 13, and it was very absorbing.

Norton Canes

Quote from: Deanjam on January 08, 2020, 10:46:41 AM
Where to start is difficult. Personally I'd go with An Unearthly Child

Yeah, if I absolutely had to recommend a particular episode, it would be An Unearthly Child part one. Not just because it's the start of everything - it's essentially a stand-alone episode that sets up the basic concept of the show that's endured for 57-odd years; but more than that, it's brilliant. It's told with great economy and Hartnell is absolutely electric, crackling with ferocity and sarcasm.

daf

And, amazingly, there's two complete versions of that first one - with the original pilot also included on the DVD, for fascinating 'compare and contrast' fun.

Endicott

Good advice. I've always been partial to this site when it comes to production info on individual episodes

http://www.shannonsullivan.com/doctorwho/tv.html


gilbertharding

I saw an advert the other day which suggested it was all on BritBox. Is this true?

And... is my life too short?

I just about remember Pertwee from the first time - especially the episode with the Who Mobile, and there was one with some dinosaurs.

And my memory of the first Peter Davidson series was mainly him groaning about the whole time because he'd regenerated wrong.

I'd watch Seeds of Doom first, anyway.

Bad Ambassador

Yes it is and no it's not.

There are exceptions regarding incomplete stories from the 60s, with the surviving episodes of The Daleks' Master Plan, The Faceless One, The Evil of the Daleks and The Abominable Snowmen all absent, as is The Reign of Terror - which had its missing episodes animated - and the entirely missing Marco Polo, Mission to the Unknown, The Myth Makers, The Massacre, The Savages, The Smugglers, The Highlanders and Fury from the Deep.

Your Pertwee memory is Invasion of the Dinosaurs. Davison stops complaining about his regeneration going wrong after his first story, in which it is a major plot point.

madhair60

I should clarify I've seen a bit, stuff an ex-CaBer showed me and I rather liked - stuff largely reviled like Timelash, Trial of a Time Lord, Ghost Light, etc. I'm sure in the scheme of things this stuff is bad but to my eyes it was fascinating, thoughtful and rich in ideas. I had a fair few DVDs of the series but foolishly sold them all... now they're very expensive.

daf

Quote from: Bad Ambassador on January 08, 2020, 12:43:13 PM
Your Pertwee memory is Invasion of the Dinosaurs.

There's also one in Doctor Who and The Silurians (real title!)

daf

Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on January 08, 2020, 10:48:34 AM
Unfortunately the Blu-Ray of Season 12 is mad expensive, otherwise that would be a no brainer.

Getting a re-release soon

Norton Canes

Quote from: daf on January 08, 2020, 01:26:45 PM
There's also one in Doctor Who and The Silurians (real title!)

There's also one (Whomobile) in Planet Of The Spiders

purlieu

Quote from: madhair60 on January 08, 2020, 12:58:59 PM
stuff largely reviled [...] Ghost Light, etc.
Nooooo no no, Ghost Light is fantastic! A bit confusing, but fantastic.

I'd say get a taste of it all with a few picks - An Unearthly Child, The Time Meddler, Tomb of the Cybermen, The Invasion, Spearhead from Space, The Daemons, Genesis of the Daleks, City of Death, Kinda, Caves of Androzani, Vengeance on Varos, The Curse of Fenric, Survival, The Movie would be my run - and then go through it chronologically. Although relatively few stories rely on past knowledge, I find the growth of the characters and the behind-the-scenes production fascinating to watch as it goes along; also, watching Tom Baker take over after several series of Jon Pertwee, and the same with Davison, gives you an idea of just how startling the cast changes were at the time.

gilbertharding

Quote from: Bad Ambassador on January 08, 2020, 12:43:13 PM
Yes it is and no it's not.

There are exceptions regarding incomplete stories from the 60s, with the surviving episodes of The Daleks' Master Plan, The Faceless One, The Evil of the Daleks and The Abominable Snowmen all absent, as is The Reign of Terror - which had its missing episodes animated - and the entirely missing Marco Polo, Mission to the Unknown, The Myth Makers, The Massacre, The Savages, The Smugglers, The Highlanders and Fury from the Deep.

Your Pertwee memory is Invasion of the Dinosaurs. Davison stops complaining about his regeneration going wrong after his first story, in which it is a major plot point.

Fair enough. I watched it religiously for several years around the time of Baker and Davidson (unless the weather was too nice and I was playing out) - but I was 9 or 11, or something, and didn't get it all.

I remember liking the series where he had to find all the bits of that puzzle, with Romana, but I think I missed an episode.

QuoteBasically the entirety of classic Who is a lovely warm melange of plummy character actors, bizarre plots, absolute diamonds of quotable dialogue and just a sense that everyone involved is trying - to the best of their abilities, and not always in harmony - to create a wonderful, beautiful show. As long as you're prepared to accept it's almost always painted on a canvas of three-walled studio sets and bitterly cold gravel pits, and moves at the pace of tree sap, all you need to do is sit back and drink it in.

This has made me want to go home and just stick the first Who DVD on. Yes.

Bad Ambassador

Quote from: gilbertharding on January 08, 2020, 02:29:30 PM
I remember liking the series where he had to find all the bits of that puzzle, with Romana, but I think I missed an episode.

The Key to Time storyline, which was spread across an entire six-month season.

Also, the point about the extras on the DVDs is spot on. You can get a good day out of the better ones.

pigamus

Spearhead from Space is another good jumping-on point. DR WHO - NOW IN BBC COLOUR!

I watched the episodes every Sunday on UKGold in my teens. That said, there's a few from Pertwee onwards I've never watched.

The Ambassadors of Death
Colony in Space
The Time Monster (only partially)
Invasion of the Dinosaurs
Planet of Evil (only partially when it was on Horror)
The Masque of Mandragora
The Ribos Operation
The Armageddon Factor
Castrovalva
The King's Demons
Vengeance on Varos
Terror of the Vervoids
The Ultimate Foe (I gave up for a bit around here)
Time and the Rani

Any classics I've missed?



Jerzy Bondov

Not any outright classics there for me but all the Pertwees and Tom Bakers are worth a watch and Castrovalva is alright. Many people think Varos is the best Colin Baker story. Maybe it is. Still crap though.

Norton Canes

#28
OK... if we're absolutely recommending stories... her are some good ones and also some quirky ones that anyone with inquisitive tastes should also love.

Hartnell:
The Aztecs - brilliantly plotted historical, remains the go-to story for why the TARDIS crew should not interfere with the past. Jaqueline Hill as Barbara puts in one of the best companion turns ever.
The Web Planet - glacially slow, but still one of the most bizarre classic series stories. Every character bar the TARDIS crew is either a giant ant, butterfly or slug. Bonus game: see if you can work out what they did with the Vaseline!
Also try The Romans or the Gunfighters if you want out and out comedy.

Troughton: (problem here is that not many complete Trout stories exist)
The Web Of Fear - Yeti in the London Underground. (Missing episode three but the soundtrack, accompanied by stills, is on the DVD.) Super creepily directed by Who maestro Douglas Camfield, there is atmosphere and tension aplenty here and a few macabre shocks.
The Mind Robber - Who does fairy-tale fantasy in an ingenious meta-textual way. Bonus game: notice anything strange about the lines spoken by Lemuel Gulliver?
Also try The War Games - Troughton's finale, it's ten episodes but they fairly fly by and at the end we get to find out just why the Doctor is travelling in the TARDIS (Moffatt retconning excepted)

Pertwee: actually it's probably best to categorize these
The Doctor and UNIT fighting alien 'invasions'/mad scientists - The Daemons, The Sea Devils, The Green Death
Political allegories - Invasion Of The Dinosaurs, Colony In Space, The Curse Of Peladon
Gritty - Inferno, The Mind Of Evil, The Ambassadors Of Death
Daleks - The ones with 'Daleks' in the title. All pretty good.
If I had to pick a favourite though it would be Carnival Of Monsters, a bewilderingly good story from Who script maestro Robert Holmes based around a concept years ahead of its time and with lashings of black humour.

Baker, T:
Seasons 12-14 (Gothic horror, chilling villains, brooding Baker) - The Ark In Space, Genesis Of The Daleks, Pyramids Of Mars, Planet Of Evil, The Brain Of Morbius, The Robots Of Death... oh look the stories from these three seasons hardly ever fail to deliver (as long as you steer clear of Cybermen) so dive in anywhere. The Deadly Assassin is notable for re-writing the myths of the Time Lords. And The Talons Of Weng-Chiang is hopelessly, irredeemably lacist.
Seasons 15-17 (light-hearted, humorous side usually to the fore, dicking about Baker) - The Sun Makers, The Ribos Operation, City Of Death (written by Douglas Adams and partly shot on location in Paris, features Baker and then-squeeze Lalla Ward in what amounts to a romantic comedy thriller). I love Destiny Of The Daleks but others decry it as a lame follow-up to Genesis. Also there's the atypical Horror Of Fang Rock, which is like the Gothic horror story that got held up by one year.
Season 18 (very heavy on scientific concepts, looks amazing (for 1980), sulky not-arsed Baker) - Full Circle, the baroquely-styled Warriors' Gate, and The Keeper Of Traken/Logopolis, which spell the end for everyone's favourite scarf-draped Bohemian time traveller)

Davison:
Kinda and Snakedance feature the Mara, an enemy from the darkest corners of the human mind. Enlightenment also touches on the realms beyond mortality. The Caves Of Androzani plays out like a stunning, sublimely-directed Jacobean revenger's tragedy.

Baker, C:
The problem with Colin Baker's first season is that the episodes are all 45 minutes long, which is a long time to watch classic era Who in one go. The problem with Colin Baker's second season is that it's fucking awful. The problem with both Colin Baker's seasons is that they feature Colin Baker.
Revelation Of The Daleks and Vengeance On Varos are decent enough.

McCoy:
Remembrance Of The Daleks sees out the Doctor's famous adversaries in adventurous fashion. The Greatest Show In The Galaxy is pleasantly surreal. Ghost Light has an over-complex plot that needs trimming but delivers in terms of dialogue, direction and performances. The Happiness Patrol is possibly the campest Doctor Who story of the classic or indeed any era, which... yeah.



SteK

Slightly OT...

The Curse Of The Fatal Death, which revealed the first female Doctor....

And I rather like the two films with Peter Cushing as The Doctor, tho a mere human, not a Time Lord.

Saw the Paul McGann film once, can't remember much about it, so it must have been quite poor...