Wanting to get into old Doctor Who

[A Hat Like That]

The Ambassadors of Death: Unsung classic of the Pertwee era, I think in part because it wasn't available in full colour until 2013. A complex, intelligent story and some great action. Even the first episode has a huge shoot-out.
Colony in Space: Boring as fuck.
The Time Monster: Boring as fuck.
Invasion of the Dinosaurs: A really interesting story full of twists and some lovely location work in a deserted London, but hamstrung by the crap dinosaur effects. There's a gamechanging twist halfway through that should be better appreciated.
Planet of Evil: Very gothic and clearly ripped off from Forbidden Planet and Jekyll and Hyde. Good fun with an amazing alien jungle set.
The Masque of Mandragora: A lesser Tom, but with some nice location work at Portmeirion.
The Ribos Operation: Others seem to like this more than me, but it's passable all the same, with one great scene late on involving the Galileo of another planet.
The Armageddon Factor: No one's favourite. Some nice ideas and introduction of the Doctor's old mucker from Gallifrey aside, it's a bit dull and slow, though the final scene in the Key to Time saga is a satisfying ending.
Castrovalva: More like two stories shoved together, with a very strange atmosphere in the TARDIS-bound first half, before opening out into the second. Some nice twists and design, and the central idea is pretty clever.
The King's Demons: Incredibly lightweight. The Master's disguise is so obvious you think there's going to be a twist that it isn't him. Nice song, though.
Vengeance on Varos: Colin's best story, where the grim tone and violence of his era works in the story's favour. Bluntly satirical and very interested in the mechanics of television viewing, with two towering guest performances.
Terror of the Vervoids: As a story in its own right, so insubstantial and generic it feels like it should exist only in folk memory as an idea of "what Doctor Who was like". As part of the trial the central idea makes no sense and it's an obvious replacement for scripts which fell through.
The Ultimate Foe: Without wanting to tread on too many toes, it's the Rise of Skywalker of the trial season, as it tries to tie up a big bunch of loose ends in a story that was being improvised as they went. Some lovely location work and Michael Jayston trying to make the bizarre dialogue and twists work, but it's a mess.
Time and the Rani: Widely hated, and an example of what happens when your show gets recommissioned at three months notice. It's not completely terrible. O'Mara is still an imposing villain, McCoy is immediately a likeable new Doctor and tones down the goofiness fairly quickly and it even manages to make the archetypal quarry look visually interesting.

cheers. appreciated.

[Ambient Sheep]

There is a kind of connection because John Dearth played Lupton, the main character in that group of people doing the chanting in Planet of the Spiders...

And he had also supplied the voice of BOSS in The Green Death a year earlier, so it's him uttering the "Stevens" line there...

Oh wow, that's amazing and would certainly explain exactly how SteK got the two muddled up in his youthful brain.  Thanks so much for that!

[Ambient Sheep]

...another way is to say that the fourth episode of The Tenth Planet may have survived, in its entirety, alongside the first three if it hadn't been removed from the archives by the Blue Peter editorial team and scrapped once they'd taken out the bits they wanted.

Do you know, for some reason that rather obvious scenario had never occurred to me before?

Blue Peter bastards!  First they murder nearly 2 million tortoises, and now this!

[pigamus]

When you watch stories out of context their reputation often doesn't matter. Death to the Daleks was one of the first videos I owned in the late 80s and I loved it, even though it's supposed to be a bit tired and shit.

[mjwilson]

Sandifer blotted her copybook quite badly a year ago when she insisted that The Talons of Weng-Chiang was racist against the Chinese, prompting the half-Chinese deputy editor of Doctor Who Magazine - whose aunt was in Talons - to explain why she was taking through her hat. She then allegedly tried to get the editor sacked.

The idea that Talons is racist goes a long way back and is pretty commonplace.

[Replies From View]

wifeinspace.com used to be a lovely accompaniment to any Doctor Who watchalong but it appears to have been turned at some point from a free online blog into a series of books.  I'd probably still recommend it though, depending on the cost of the kindle version.

[Norton Canes]

If you want story-by-story accompaniment - for the 60's and 70's stories, at least - then I'd thoroughly recommend Rob Shearman and Toby Hadoke's 'Running Through Corridors' volumes one and two. They do it episode by episode and Shearman in particular makes some wonderfully incisive points. Their aim is to keep the tone positive but that doesn't stop them making constructive criticism where they feel it's necessary. It does mean that the whole enterprise maintains a warm and appreciative air. The 80's volume has been promised for a while but still no sign - I dearly hope they complete it eventually.

[Bad Ambassador]

The idea that Talons is racist goes a long way back and is pretty commonplace.

True, and it is racist by modern standards, but her point was that no one should be allowed to enjoy it anymore.

[Old Gold Tooth]

Yeah I remember the Sandifer Talons thing on Twitter and it wasn't that she didn't have a point, it was more she really went needlessly reductive and aggressive about the whole issue.

ELSandifer
If Talons of Weng-Chiang is your all time favorite Doctor Who story then you're racist

Lucky for me I'm a Robots of Death man.

[pigamus]

She's a classic example of the inverse ratio

[Kryton]

When you watch stories out of context their reputation often doesn't matter. Death to the Daleks was one of the first videos I owned in the late 80s and I loved it, even though it's supposed to be a bit tired and shit.

Exactly. Same.

[PinkNoise]

Colony in Space: Boring as fuck.

The book - Doctor Who And The Doomsday Weapon - is brilliant. Written by Malcolm Hulke himself, it's one of the first 1970s novelisations, therefore it goes deeper into the characters' motives, more detail about the IMC and the lives of the colonists, the robot isn't John Scott Martin in a shed on wheels, The Guardian isn't shit... it's one of the best pieces of Who writing of all time.

It was the first Who book I ever bought for myself and I spent a couple of days suffering from tonsilitis reading this in bed - it was like living in another world. When I finally saw it on TV, it's just a quarry in Cornwall. In February.

I read all the Malcolm Hulke Pertwee novelisations before I ever saw the TV versions, and with the possible exception of the Silurians, the original TV versions all suffer accordingly in comparison - and not just because of the 70s special effects.

[Norton Canes]

The section where [redacted for spoilers] considers the theatricality of impersonating a colonist is exquisitely written. it's just a shame, really, for the book and the TV serial, that the Master turns up and ruins what was a perfectly good settlers vs. corporations 'wild west in space' style allegory. Without him it could have been a taut four-parter.

In his novelisations, Hulke excels at the little moments. The prologue of The Cave Monsters ('The Silurians' on TV*) has the Old Silurian wondering what will become of his people after they've retreated to their shelters; and The Dinosaur Invasion starts with that incredible chapter recounting the misadventures of Shughie McPherson.


_{*I don't care what kind of administrative cock-up there was on the scripts, I'm not calling it 'Doctor Who And The Silurians'}

[Replies From View]

I have begun the Radio Times Doctor Who thread, in case you missed it:  https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,77529.0.html


I'm using it as an opportunity to rewatch the show from the start.  Anyone else?

[purlieu]

I'd love to, but I'm mid-way through a Star Trek rewatch which is due to keep me busy until well into next year.

[Norton Canes]

Oh, glad this got bumped, I meant to mention another book that might help madhair or anyone who wants to make an informed decision themselves on which old stories to watch but doesn't know enough about them:

Space Helmet for a Cow: The Mad, True Story of Doctor Who (1963-1989)

"In Space Helmet for a Cow, award-winning writer Paul Kirkley (SFX magazine) provides a sweeping, wry and warm look at the behind-the-scenes story of Doctor Who – not just the greatest TV show ever made, but frequently the most insane TV show ever made... This is the story of how, over 50 years, a bunch of very clever, very dedicated and sometimes plain crazy people made Doctor Who happen, often against seemingly insuperable odds; a story of triumph and tragedy, tears and tantrums"

Basically the book is possibly the only extant single-volume history of the classic era of Doctor Who, detailing in one sweeping narrative its development from inception to cancellation including the highs, the lows, the anecdotes and scandals, the team-ups, the fall-outs, the heroes and villains both in front and behind the camera, and much, much more. OK it's probably true to say that seasoned Who fans may not learn anything new but even so it's absorbing to see everything presented in one chronology. And the really nice thing is that apart from relating how the show somehow managed to make it to screen for 26 consecutive years, the author also manages to include a mini-review of every single story - as part of the text, not even in separate chapters. He tends to err towards the positive but isn't afraid to stick the boot in when it's needed. Oh, and, did I mention that it's really funny? Kirkley has a deliciously acerbic sense of humour which means the whole book is packed full of droll asides, usually aimed at recalcitrant members of the casts or production teams and often exceptionally cutting.

(if the above paragraph has made any aspect of this book seem unappealing then believe me, it's more down to my deficient manner of critique than the quality of the book itself.)

Anyway it's a fantastic read and like I say, a great way to get an idea of what the classic era stories are about and how well they are regarded, without having to wade through a dry episode guide.

No I'm not on commission.

[purlieu]

Five of the top nine threads in this board are currently about Doctor Who.

Too fucking right, as well.

[weekender]

Space Helmet for a Cow

This sounds like an interesting read, thanks for posting.

I've ordered the paperback versions (there are two volumes, apparently) from Amazon UK, which were c£11 each in case anyone else is wondering about this aspect.

[imitationleather]

Exactly. Same.

I think that Death to the Daleks VHS - where it's all edited in to one long episode - must have been some of the first Doctor Who I ever saw.

[Norton Canes]

I've ordered the paperback versions (there are two volumes, apparently) from Amazon UK, which were c£11 each in case anyone else is wondering about this aspect

Cool! maybe I should have been on commission after all :)

The second volume kcks off with a chapter on the 'Wilderness Years' when the show wasn't produced (apart from some TV movie thing with Paul McGann apparently) then gets stuck into the revival right up to Capaldi's second season. It mentions Chibnall's appointment, but Jodie's casting unfortunately must have happened after the publishing deadline. The writing is every bit as good and if anything the jokes are even crueler, but I get the feeling Kirkley is a bit of a nu-Who sceptic as even his most effusive reviews are tempered with qualifiers. Still a great read though.

[Alberon]

This sounds like an interesting read, thanks for posting.

I've ordered the paperback versions (there are two volumes, apparently) from Amazon UK, which were c£11 each in case anyone else is wondering about this aspect.

I'm actually working my way through the second volume after enjoying the first and it is just as funny. He does say right at the start that all the backstage problems he detailed in the first he can't on the second as most of it hasn't come out. He details all the known facts about the whole Eccleston issue for isntance. But any book that makes jokes about The Power of Kroll is okay by me.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

He details all the known facts about the whole Eccleston issue for isntance.

"My relationship with my three immediate superiors – the showrunner, the producer and co-producer – broke down irreparably during the first block of filming and it never recovered."

That's pretty much all we know, isn't it? He had an issue with the director Keith Boak too. I wonder if we'll ever get the full details of what went down.

[weekender]

This is a version of a rumour I have seen repeatedly over the years.  I've heard other versons where the flaming sofa being shot out of the window very nearly caused some serious injuries to both cast and crew members, which Keith Boak apparently just laughed off.  When Eccleston raised his concerns elsewhere I got the impression he was basically fobbed off.

There are plenty of rumours floating around concerning what it was that made Eccleston quit, and the crew has done a remarkably good job of keeping it tight-lipped. Best I can tell, the definitive answer is that Keith Boak -- who filmed the first block of series 1 -- was treating the extras and crew members badly, including safety violations being broken for a shot of a flaming sofa getting shot out of a window. This climaxed in a shouting fight on the set of Aliens of London, where a fan watching the filming supposedly heard Chris saying "At least I don't have to watch this shit."

Either way, Boak hasn't been invited back to direct Doctor Who, and rumor has it that Rose ended up getting majorly reshot by Euros Lyn, which is why the burning sofa didn't make it into the final episode.

Obviously all of this is hearsay, but even if it's 1% true, and especially considering the subsequent debacle with the BBC having to retract a fake quote in the press release about his departure, I can definitely understand why he would've left with a bad taste in his mouth. Major kudos to RTD for recovering so successfully from such a debacle.

Source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gallifrey/comments/85neu6/christopher_eccleston_says_he_lost_faith_and/

So, not definitive by any stretch of the imagination, but I've seen the basic details - flaming sofa being a constant - repeated in various forums over the years.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Ta for that.