Author Topic: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]  (Read 9766 times)

Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« on: January 14, 2020, 09:49:46 AM »
Does anyone feel that the tories will 'do well' (in the eyes of the electorate)? In what circumstances will the people turn against them? As it stands, it feels like even if when people are denied vital medicines because they're too expensive, and Brexit goes tits up, and the environment goes to shit, so long as Boris Johnson turns up in a wacky car and serves up piping hot gruel to the peasants, they'll lap it up. Never felt such despair, politically.

Danger Man

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2020, 10:15:23 AM »
Never felt such despair, politically.

If you think you live in a right-wing country and things are never going to change then you have two options:

1) Live somewhere else

2) Focus on making your personal life as good as it can be and forget about politics.

I suppose there's always suicide but that seems a bit much.

Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2020, 10:28:58 AM »
Or c) focus on local politics where things are less focused on personality politics and changes are easier to make and clearer to see. Enough people doing this could change the initial assumption

Paul Calf

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2020, 10:30:07 AM »
Does anyone feel that the tories will 'do well' (in the eyes of the electorate)? In what circumstances will the people turn against them? As it stands, it feels like even if when people are denied vital medicines because they're too expensive, and Brexit goes tits up, and the environment goes to shit, so long as Boris Johnson turns up in a wacky car and serves up piping hot gruel to the peasants, they'll lap it up. Never felt such despair, politically.

They don’t give a fuck about public opinion. They’ve explicitly stated this.

If you think you live in a right-wing country and things are never going to change then you have two options:

1) Live somewhere else

2) Focus on making your personal life as good as it can be and forget about politics.

I suppose there's always suicide but that seems a bit much.

So, “Move right or fuck off” is your advice?

Danger Man

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2020, 10:57:36 AM »
Number 2 doesn't mean you have to 'move right'

Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2020, 11:04:53 AM »
would be quite lol if alec baldwin said that in the film from your av where he storms in and out doing that prize-winning cunt routine which lesser cunts aspire to, but I actually can't live somewhere else as a consequence of my glowing personal life. 

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2020, 11:15:03 AM »
The nightmare now is that LolBoris can't lose whatever he does, because if Brexit goes well he gets the credit, and if it doesn't then Johnny Foreigner gets the blame.

Buelligan

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2020, 11:16:18 AM »
He's definitely going to die at some point.  Nothing is permanent.

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2020, 11:16:40 AM »
Number 2 doesn't mean you have to 'move right'

To be fair it doesn’t really “mean” anything.  Just a joke wasn’t it?  Random words atop a gaffawing great lump.

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2020, 11:17:11 AM »
He's definitely going to die at some point.

Indeed. I was just about to try to cheer everyone up by pointing out that he might develop a terminal illness.

Buelligan

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2020, 11:18:09 AM »
Fair's fair, my lovely mum got one and she was really nice.

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2020, 11:21:45 AM »
If I could swap Boris for your mum, Buelligan, I would. But you wouldn't like why.

Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2020, 11:22:24 AM »
Or c) focus on local politics where things are less focused on personality politics and changes are easier to make and clearer to see. Enough people doing this could change the initial assumption

Agreed, and related to this, John McDonnell shared this article the other day, was an interesting read.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/13/preston-labour-woes-localism-brexit

Paul Calf

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2020, 11:30:41 AM »
Number 2 doesn't mean you have to 'move right'

Number 2 is moving right.

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2020, 12:17:40 PM »
Imagine how much worse things would be if people didn't resist and campaign for an alternative even in the face of overwhelming odds.

It would have meant a once in 40 years opportunity would never have presented itself. Don't forget just how close Labour were to coming to power until Brexit came along to seal Corbyn's fate. They were ahead in the polls and May was in serious trouble.

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/01/13/the-center-blows-itself-up-care-and-spite-in-the-brexit-election/

The real answer is that the Tories will be blamed to a degree if the economy collapses but I expect they have the right leader for the minute, a populist who is happy executing any policy, even some socialist ones, if it helps keep power.

The more interesting thing than the Tories is what happens to the centrists. Do they cling to Labour as a vehicle if Starmer gets in, and what will their narrative actually be?

As for keeping your morale up, just try and keep certain shit at arms length and chip in where you can.

Buelligan

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2020, 01:09:29 PM »
I tend to keep all shit at arm's length (and, where possible, a lot further away than that).  In your opinion, is there some shit I should be tolerating?

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2020, 01:13:54 PM »
I tend to keep all shit at arm's length (and, where possible, a lot further away than that).  In your opinion, is there some shit I should be tolerating?

Well, you could probably help a bit more if you came back to Britain and got stuck in rather than aloofly directing revolutionary efforts from a Pyrenean cave like some lavender-scented Bin Laden...

Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2020, 01:15:58 PM »
I don't really see how things can "go well" for the Tories in terms of making most peoples lives better, its more a case of how well do they cope with the failure to do this. A few ways to deal with this I suspect...

Blame "establishment elements" in the commons as damaging Boris's vision and look to further purge the party.

Blame Boris himself for not really believing in Brexit and someone like Reese Mogg takes over as a true believer.

Blame minorities as somehow holding back Boris's potential success, focus more heavily on non EU immigration.


Buelligan

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2020, 01:17:16 PM »
Well, you could probably help a bit more if you came back to Britain and got stuck in rather than aloofly directing revolutionary efforts from a Pyrenean cave like some lavender-scented Bin Laden...

Thanks but pitifully sparse on detail or answers.  I'm not asking to direct anyone, just looking for specificity on the shit advice.

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2020, 01:22:01 PM »
I don't really see how things can "go well" for the Tories in terms of making most peoples lives better, its more a case of how well do they cope with the failure to do this. A few ways to deal with this I suspect...

Blame "establishment elements" in the commons as damaging Boris's vision and look to further purge the party.

Blame Boris himself for not really believing in Brexit and someone like Reese Mogg takes over as a true believer.

Blame minorities as somehow holding back Boris's potential success, focus more heavily on non EU immigration.



They intend to ignore public opinion entirely. That’s how they’ll cope with it.

Edit: this is not a normal government. They’ll nobble the courts just like they’ve nobbled parliament. They will be accountable to no-one.

Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2020, 01:22:46 PM »
As for keeping your morale up, just try and keep certain shit at arms length and chip in where you can.

I agree with this and guess part of the despair is that we're stuck at base camp with no sign of making any challenge on that huge fucking mountain that we're all staring at. Got my first post-election branch meeting tonight although it's a tedious AGM. Almost feels like we should be turning up in bandages and on crutches, having lost a few members.

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2020, 01:29:04 PM »
I think, much like Pis in Poland, there's going to have to be some left-leaning policies from Johnson Cummings. The party was no doubt concerned about it's aging membership, and has now won over areas of the country previously unavailable to them. Of course, the majority of their voters from those seats will be elderly, but I'm sure there's plenty of Brexit types there as well who now need to see their lives improve if they're going to continue to vote Tory. In short, investment bribery. They'll also further minimize scrutiny, gerrymander borders and all sorts of other bad shit.

That and/or frogmarching immigrants off.

Johnson will do whatever he's told to do. He could probably put forth a softer Brexit, safe in the knowledge that the press probably aren't going to take him to task for it in the same way that they would Labour.

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2020, 01:34:07 PM »
He won’t. He’ll put through exactly the kind of Brexit he and his backers want: the hardest possible, stripping workers’ rights, denuding public services of spending and expertise and opening Britain up as a client state of the US. That was the whole plan, and that’s what is going to happen. He. Is. Not. Accountable.

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2020, 02:06:16 PM »
Mark Francois will be the next Prime Minister.

Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2020, 02:14:56 PM »
He won’t. He’ll put through exactly the kind of Brexit he and his backers want: the hardest possible, stripping workers’ rights, denuding public services of spending and expertise and opening Britain up as a client state of the US. That was the whole plan, and that’s what is going to happen. He. Is. Not. Accountable.
And if the public at large begins to feel the pinch, it'll be someone else's fault. Labour, probably. If only they'd got on board from the start, instead of causing all those delays, then it would have all been just dandy.

This will be effective.

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2020, 02:24:03 PM »
And if the public at large begins to feel the pinch, it'll be someone else's fault. Labour, probably. If only they'd got on board from the start, instead of causing all those delays, then it would have all been just dandy.

This will be effective.

Even if it’s not: even if the constant media distraction field and the xenophobia and the outright racism and the destruction of parliamentary oversight and the neutering of the democratic mandate and the massive backing of corporate money, power and influence and the lies, lies, lies, lies don’t work, he’ll just crush dissidence with violence and imprisonment. Did you think he was joking when he bought those water cannon?

It will happen. One day in the near-ish future, British people will go to prison, be harmed, injured, killed, ruined and bankrupted for speaking out against their government.

Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2020, 02:49:14 PM »
It will happen. One day in the near-ish future, British people will go to prison, be harmed, injured, killed, ruined and bankrupted for speaking out against their government.
It's something that does play on my mind - frankly, if Trump wins the election (which I expect him to), I can imagine it happening in the States very quickly, and it being imported over here soon after.

The big thing is, it'll be initially accepted by the masses. As a people, do that many people care about XR being labelled as an extremist organisation by the government? I suspect not - just a bunch of hippies who need to get a job, innit?

Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2020, 04:16:38 PM »
General election before disaster, reduced majority but another 4-5 years to ride it out. Obey Judge Fish.

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Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2020, 04:49:08 PM »
I do wonder if this Big Ben story was intended to be a distraction from the government still not releasing the report.

Re: Will the Tory party do well? [Split topic]
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2020, 05:17:30 PM »
mark francois really does like he is going to burst any moment. perhaps he could hold it until 11pm on the 31st

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