Infinite monkeys and typewriters (thought experiments)

[Spoon of Ploff]

An infinite number of monkeys will write the complete works of Shakespeare, and an infinite number won't*.




_{* presumable they'll just be mucking about}

[Captain Z]

Wasn't this experiment tried in a somewhat diluted attempt ie, no infinity?

A lot of monkeys anyway, and the only thing that looked like a word was 'Chumbawumba' - from which the eponymous band got their name.

Can't believe they went to all that effort just to come up with a name.

[Pdine]

https://libraryofbabel.info/

[olliebean]

I think this whole infinite monkey thing is wrong. That Quora answer linked above says:

According to the infinite monkey theorem, the probability it will eventually happen, given enough time, is 1.

But it isn't, is it? Given infinite time, the probability will approach infinitesimally close to 1, but it will never actually be 1.

[Paul Calf]

Can't believe they went to all that effort just to come up with a name.

If only they'd put as much effort into their music.

[KennyMonster]

Wasn't this experiment tried in a somewhat diluted attempt ie, no infinity?

A lot of monkeys anyway, and the only thing that looked like a word was 'Chumbawumba' - from which the eponymous band got their name.

Did these monkies also come up with the name Danbert KnobAcorn?

[KennyMonster]

My understanding of the Infinite monkies thing is a little different to the above.

"If you have an infinite number of monkies with an infinite number of typewriters they'll probably get mistaken for the joke writers of HIGNFY."

I heard this joke on Radio 4 many many years ago but referencing the writing team for Weekending rather than HIGNFY.

I reckon it was an early Stewart Lee joke, going only by my memory I remember the style of delivery being his style.

Any idea if this is the case anyone?

[Danger Man]

Did these monkies also come up with the name Danbert KnobAcorn?

No mention of his private school roots. Those monkeys should get going on his Wikipedia page.

[Blumf]

They'll also produce a rendition Daydream Believer, but with a weird reverb sound to it, as there are an infinity of them singing.

[Janie Jones]

The Quality of Mercy is not Strnen

[JesusAndYourBush]

I heard this joke on Radio 4 many many years ago but referencing the writing team for Weekending rather than HIGNFY.

I reckon it was an early Stewart Lee joke, going only by my memory I remember the style of delivery being his style.

Any idea if this is the case anyone?

I'm sure I remember someone on HIGNFY itself doing a version of the joke ending with something like  "...thanks to the internet this is now true."

[bgmnts]

It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times.

[New folder]

went back in time to meet shakespeare once -- turns out, infinite monkey fellas.

[Sebastian Cobb]

As someone who doesn't cohabit, quite frankly I have no time for this.

[Darles Chickens]

I heard this joke on Radio 4 many many years ago but referencing the writing team for Weekending rather than HIGNFY.

I reckon it was an early Stewart Lee joke, going only by my memory I remember the style of delivery being his style.

Any idea if this is the case anyone?

It sounds more like a David Baddiel line to me.  I can hear it in his sneery voice.

Or perhaps Alexei Sayle.

[KennyMonster]

It sounds more like a David Baddiel line to me.  I can hear it in his sneery voice.

Or perhaps Alexei Sayle.

I would have known if it was Sayle, I think it was on after 'Stuff had at least aired.

Possible that it was pre Mary Whitehouse being on TV so could have been Baddiel, but could Lee not have sneered at Weekending too?

Comedy vehicle S1 had a bit about R4 comedies (with Simon Nunnery).

Did Stew work on Weekending?
I know Herr-Ring did.

[Replies From View]

Also:

There are as many odd numbers as there are even and odd numbers put together.

Or to put it another way, there are different sizes of infinity.



Edit:  sorry; I hadn't read the whole thread before replying

Isn't it kind of the opposite? Not that there are as many of one as there are of the other, but that you can have different sizes of infinity?

[Replies From View]

The former.

And they'll write the complete works of Shakespeare an infinite number of times because that's how infinity works.


(I doubt I'll have to wait an infinite amount of time before somebody says I'm wrong)

I find the monkeys/typewriters model of infinity a bit annoying, as it assumes monkeys will randomly tap across the different keys of the keyboard rather than the same ones again and again.

It doesn't naturally follow that a creature typing DDDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDFFFDFFDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD will in time start reaching words.  No:  if it starts out going GFDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD then extrapolated to infinity you're more likely to only get infinite pages of FDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

So "that's the nature of infinity" and "infinity sorts that all out for you" isn't true, I think.  Infinity doesn't naturally create everything if your randomiser is a monkey.

[phantom_power]

It does because it is infinity and anything that could possibly happen will happen with a neverending amount of time

[Default to the negative]

The monkeys are obviously in an abusive situation. Probably with some beery yoeman giving them a lick of the birch every ten seconds. This is an oppressive monkey sweatshop we're talking about, and the monkeys will find no creative inspiration here.

You won't get the complete works of Shakespeare (which are overrated anyway). Instead, you'll have a monkey rebellion on your hands. Rise of the Dawn of the War of the Apes. And you'll deserve it too, for this obscenity of an experiment.

[gilbertharding]

Surely an infinite number of monkeys with a typewriter each will produce the complete works of Shakespeare almost immediately. I mean, it would probably be slightly quicker than a fully trained human typist diligently copying the complete works of Shakespeare. Wouldn't it?

A couple of days... a week tops. The problem might be spotting when the task had actually been accomplished, and you could let the monkeys carry on with their lives.

[petril]

it's not so much that they'll get you the full Shakespeare canon, it's the amount of utter shite, both literal and like the exact scripts to Baddiel's Syndrome, you'd have to sift through to see if they did it or not.

On the plus side, you could claim a nice copyright on everything the simian writing room does that's not already copyrighted and get a nice little earner on licensing everything else that comes out

[Replies From View]

It does because it is infinity and anything that could possibly happen will happen with a neverending amount of time

They aren't good enough randomisers.  Get something else in, like chimps at least.


Or you can sift through infinite pages of DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDFDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDFDDDDDDDDDDDDD - it's up to you.

[New folder]

Or to put it another way, there are different sizes of infinity.

Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Monkeyed Typewriters

[Default to the negative]

Supposing these slave monkeys did write you a Shakespeare. Would you read it? From beginning to end?

No you would not. Everyone knows that Shakespeare was elevated by prudish people like Thomas Babington Macauley, who would hold the bard's work up as something beautiful and idealistic. Something pretty we can play for the Queen, unlike the utter vulgarity that others wrote in the period.

I think the monkeys would be on my side. They wouldn't type a word of that dishonest piss.

[bgmnts]

Thomas Baboonton Monkauley.

[phantom_power]

They aren't good enough randomisers.  Get something else in, like chimps at least.


Or you can sift through infinite pages of DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDFDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDFDDDDDDDDDDDDD - it's up to you.

There will be infinite pages of that and also infinite pages of Shakespeare as well as infinite pages of everything else possible. It's infinity

[Replies From View]

Given infinite time, would monkeys create the Animated Shakespeare series that was made in the early 90s?

Just so you know, all the necessary equipment is in the room with them, but once it's wrecked it's wrecked.  And there are no adults in there teaching them about persistence of vision or anything.

[Endicott]

Given infinite time, would they create Upstart Crow? Does that actually explain its existence?

[Danger Man]

it's not so much that they'll get you the full Shakespeare canon, it's the amount of utter shite, both literal and like the exact scripts to Baddiel's Syndrome, you'd have to sift through to see if they did it or not.

The monkeys are going to write everything an infinite number of times which means they'll also write stuff like 'clean your room' and 'gender is binary' infinitely.

There'll be a thread on here demanding that the monkeys are cancelled which won't actually be infinite, it will just feel like it.