Being made redundant

[AliasTheCat]

My department at work has been going through an eight year long review that finally reported late last year.
The upshot is that I'm going to be made redundant- that my job isn't fit for purpose but will be replaced by a much better job with an almost identical salary and job description.
When this was announced I was also told that the job I'd moved into a year previously was actually back-filling for my manager who's been on a temporary promotion for ten years, meaning I get no redundancy pay, no redeployment and, as I recently discovered, they won't be ring-fencing one of the new roles for me.
My union have told me that if I'm dismissed then there will be a strong case against my employer, but that there's little or nothing they can do to actively prevent my dismissal, so not helpful at all.
I quite like (read: can tolerate) my job, and I'm very fond of a lot of the people I work with, but I'm currently feeling like I just need to fuck the whole thing off, as I'm not in a position to be unemployed for even a week, and combined with the news about overdraft charges 2020 is already looking pretty bleak.

Has anyone else got any stories about being fucked over by their employer? Did anyone manage to win out in a similar situation?

[Famous Mortimer]

Speak to someone else at your union. It might just be that your local / regional rep is a lazy arsehole, or hasn't been on the proper courses. A letter from your union, emphasising your long service, good record, and the shady practices on display (a temp promotion for ten years?), may be enough for them to change their mind about ring-fencing your job. They hopefully aren't interested in a long and costly legal battle that they'd likely lose.

Good luck, anyway. This fucking sucks.

[TrenterPercenter]

In this situation it sounds like you have to stick it out mate.  You have been shafted by them but that only comes into effect if they actually make you redundant.  If you leave before you won't be entitled to any redundancy pay and it may even make getting benefits difficult to begin with.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you buddy - been through rough times like this before (once quite recently but it worked out alright in the end).

EDIT: wait how long had you been working in your job (forget about the managers role - though it is interesting as you can't legally be on temp promotion for 10 years and not incur the same benefits of a permanent contract, as would you if you have worked in the same job (i.e. no change of contract) for 4 years, if they changed your contract over this time or if by moving to this new position it was not made CRYSTAL CLEAR to you, that you were giving up permanent contract then you have a good case).

[jobotic]

I don't understand why you aren't entitled to redundancy pay. How long have you been there? This temporary acting up job thing sounds like a red herring. They might use it to argue about the size of the pay off but you have continuous service surely?

[jobotic]

I'm also a union rep and I don't understand where yours is coming from. There seems to be a lot to question there. Why aren't you slotting into this post if it's so similar, elet alone being ring-fenced?

[Buelligan]

Maybe I don't understand English any more but this

I was also told that the job I'd moved into a year previously was actually back-filling for my manager who's been on a temporary promotion for ten years, meaning I get no redundancy pay...

is complete bollocks.

If you've been working for this employer (presumably you have evidence of this like payslips, maybe even a contract) for more than two years, you are entitled to redundancy pay under British law.

I'm a bit surprised by your union's reaction.  I'm also pretty sure

If you're [the Employer] looking to fill another role that is suitable for the employee you're making redundant, you should offer it to them instead of redundancy. The redundancy could be judged an 'unfair dismissal' if you do not.
https://www.acas.org.uk/manage-staff-redundancies/avoid-compulsory-redundancies

would apply in your case, you said my job isn't fit for purpose but will be replaced by a much better job with an almost identical salary and job description.

So take a look at this - https://www.acas.org.uk/your-rights-during-redundancy  Take more than a look, have a massive read of it over the weekend (if you get a weekend or even if you don't, make time).  Then suit up to tear your employers a new arsehole and tell them to bring their fucking checkbook.  Very best of luck to you.

[madhair60]

personally I agree with the employer

[imitationleather]

Give up job, get bald, go mad, spend all your time posting here.

Sorted.

[TrenterPercenter]

Good advice from Buellers.   It sounds dodgy 2 years is correct for statutory redundancy 4 years for whatever your company pays (if different).

However treat ACAS with care they are not on your side and will look to settle the case as easy as possible (which usually means getting you to agree to less than you would have got going to tribunal).

Union Rep should be all over this.

[Buelligan]

ACAS are there to provide information.  To enable all parties to conduct their business according to the law.  There are no sides involved. 

[TrenterPercenter]

ACAS are there to provide information.  To enable all parties to conduct their business according to the law.  There are no sides involved.

ACAS provide services for early conciliation and work as intermediaries being the claimant and defendant.

[AliasTheCat]

I'm in full agreement with all of the above, though I did miss out a bit of information: whilst the review has been going on there haven't been any permanent contracts given, so I've been a temporary employee for about four years at this point. Because I'm apparently back-filling, that counts as the end of my temporary contract and therefore not strictly redundancy.
The fact that all my temporary colleagues who aren't back-filling roles are being treated as if they're being made redundant is apparenty beside the point as, by the letter of the law they're not doing anything wrong.

[Jockice]

Give up job, get bald, go mad, spend all your time posting here.

Sorted.

That's EXACTLY what I did.

[TrenterPercenter]

I'm in full agreement with all of the above, though I did miss out a bit of information: whilst the review has been going on there haven't been any permanent contracts given, so I've been a temporary employee for about four years at this point. Because I'm apparently back-filling, that counts as the end of my temporary contract and therefore not strictly redundancy.
The fact that all my temporary colleagues who aren't back-filling roles are being treated as if they're being made redundant is apparenty beside the point as, by the letter of the law they're not doing anything wrong.

Nope. UK law states:

The limit on renewing a fixed-term contract

Any employee on fixed-term contracts for 4 or more years will automatically become a permanent employee, unless the employer can show there is a good business reason not to do so.

However, an employer and unions (or a staff association) may make a collective agreement that removes the automatic right to become a permanent employee in these circumstances.

https://www.gov.uk/fixed-term-contracts/renewing-or-ending-a-fixedterm-contract

The last point is only untestable if you were fully informed and entered a collective agreement.

[AliasTheCat]

The biggest problem - and what I suspect they're counting on - is that I simply can't afford to be unemployed.
It's all well and good to know that I would win if this were brought to a tribunal, but I have no savings and live paycheque to paycheque. If I'm unemployed for even a week I won't be able to pay my rent, and the promise of compensation months down the line is of no help to me. Also, I've been employed there a little under four years, though the same thing is happening to those who've been on temporary contracts for longer. I'd need to look into it further, but I'm pretty sure that they've beaten the four year employee claim thing before.

[TrenterPercenter]

The biggest problem - and what I suspect they're counting on - is that I simply can't afford to be unemployed.
It's all well and good to know that I would win if this were brought to a tribunal, but I have no savings and live paycheque to paycheque. If I'm unemployed for even a week I won't be able to pay my rent, and the promise of compensation months down the line is of no help to me. Also, I've been employed there a little under four years, though the same thing is happening to those who've been on temporary contracts for longer. I'd need to look into it further, but I'm pretty sure that they've beaten the four year employee claim thing before.

You should receive redundancy pay on your last day of contract.  It makes no difference though if you leave and start a new job you can still pursue them?

I don't really understand because if you leave you won't have a job or finances? If they are making you redundant you should have notice period and within that time to seek other employment (makes no difference to your claim).  Staying with your job is the best way to protect yourself financially to  my mind.

[AliasTheCat]

You should receive redundancy pay on your last day of contract.  It makes no difference though if you leave and start a new job you can still pursue them?

I don't really understand because if you leave you won't have a job or finances? If they are making you redundant you should have notice period and within that time to seek other employment (makes no difference to your claim).  Staying with your job is the best way to protect yourself financially to  my mind.

Yeah sorry, I meant find new employment, not just leave. At some point the replacement for my current job will be advertised as well and I'll apply for it too. The whole thing has left a really nasty taste in my mouth though.

[AliasTheCat]

So take a look at this - https://www.acas.org.uk/your-rights-during-redundancy  Take more than a look, have a massive read of it over the weekend (if you get a weekend or even if you don't, make time).  Then suit up to tear your employers a new arsehole and tell them to bring their fucking checkbook.  Very best of luck to you.

Thanks for this, I'll take a look.
In my case it seems there are enough loopholes for my employers to exploit: the temporary nature of my employment and the fact that I'm back-filling a role seem to be enough for my redundancy to simply be classed as the end of my contract, and although I will be added to the redeployment register, this won't happen until the end of my contract which won't be until all the replacement roles are filled.
The union's response has been supportive but ultimately pretty useless, and this includes their legal officer looking through my initial contract and all the subsequent extensions.
That said, I'm on leave at the moment so there could conceivably be an update from the union in my work inbox.