Labour Leadership and Deputy voting intentions

[Replies From View]

I know there's tons of discussion in the long form threads on the future of Labour, but it's not always easy to sift through it all and I'd love to see more of an idiots' guide with some lists of preferences that you have for the next leader and deputy leader of Labour.

I voted for Corbyn and Watson in 2015; had no idea Watson would be who he'd be and I don't want to make the same mistake again.  I don't want Labour slipping back into the hands of the right-wing of the Party; I feel Starmer is a Trojan horse and my gut tells me to back Rebecca Long-Bailey as leader, while Momentum is throwing their weight behind her and Rayner.  Would you agree with those two choices?  And what of your second, third and fourth choices?

So that this thread doesn't repeat the main Labour thread I was hoping for just some lists of names with numbers alongside.  Plus some brief explanations for those decisions for idiots like me to understand.

[olliebean]

Heads up, btw, if you're not currently a Labour member you'll have to join by 5pm tomorrow to be eligible to vote. (The registered supporters deadline has already passed.)

[sandpainter 1471z]

Bit annoyed that I won't have the money till the day after and find it a bit odd that pay day for we ESA scarecrows was overlooked when picking the deadline (if it was), but they all seem a bit of a washout really. What happens if the results show a glaring lack of enthusiasm? A fresh shortlist later? Or just muddling through for a decade with a talking doll? Rebecca might be an amazing force in twenty years' time but they are all just like limp failed clone material.

[DrGreggles]

RLB/AR

[jobotic]

RLB/AR

[Replies From View]

RLB/AR

RLB/AR

And no other preferences?

[Trichomania]

1. RLB
2. Nandy

1. Butler
2. Burgon
3. Rayner

[Replies From View]

Is there a bite-sized explanation for placing Butler and Burgon above Rayner you could give, please?

[buttgammon]

I'm going:
1. RLB
2. Thornberry
3. Starmer

Deputy:
1. Rayner
2. Butler
3. Allin-Khan
4. Burgon
5. Murray

I always exhaust all of my preferences but couldn't choose between Philips and Nandy, as I don't feel either has merited being even fourth choice on my ballot, so I'll be leaving them off entirely.

[Trichomania]

Is there a bite-sized explanation for placing Butler and Burgon above Rayner you could give, please?

Starmer will probably win so I want his deputy to be more left wing than him.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

Angela Rayner has " deputy leader" written all over her, Shirley?

[solidified gruel merchant]

RLB and I'm torn between Rayner, Burgon and Butler for deputy. I think I'll opt for Rayner because she was great as shad ed sec and during the election. I can't see her capitulating or failing to get the arguments across.
I understand the concerns regarding her going missing when the shit hit the fan but I think that's an accusation that can be levelled at everyone in the contest to various degrees. Nobody was really prepared to stick their head above the parapet in the way that I would have hoped and there could be various reasons for this. Obviously we have to recognise the exceptional level of media onslaught they have faced, and that there is a big difference between the likes of Phillips, actively working against the leadership and socialism more generally within the party, and Butler and Burgon who, whilst loyal to the party and have clear socialist leanings have maybe sometimes been coerced by the media into saying or going along with things that don't reflect the reality.
I feel that Rayner is more resistant to this.

[Kelvin]

I reckon I'll go Burgon, not least because I think there's a chance Starmer wins the leadership, and we'll therefore need the most left wing candidate in there for deputy, even if he's a pile of shit on TV.

[thugler]

1. Starmer (would have been lewis)
2. Rlb I guess.

1.Rayner
2 . Butler

[peanutbutter]

Leader:
1. RLB
2. Undecided

Deputy:
1. Burgon
2. Butler
3. Rayner



Would've given Lewis #1 just for mentioning the idea of a referendum on the monarchy tbh. Can't see anyone but Rayner getting deputy so the vote is more about sending a message.

[Kelvin]

It's hard to give a shit about any of them, isn't it? They all feel like also-ran politicians, no-one who could change the fortune of the Labour Party. I just see the whole lot of them as stop gaps, five years with one of these, so they can lose and we start again. Gonna be a very long ride.   

[imitationleather]

It's hard to give a shit about any of them, isn't it? They all feel like also-ran politicians, no-one who could change the fortune of the Labour Party. I just see the whole lot of them as stop gaps, five years with one of these, so they can lose and we start again. Gonna be a very long ride.

Quite. I feel pretty uninspired by all of them. It looks like we're in for just letting Johnson and his band of maniacs get on with it for five years.

[pancreas]

Butler on the ten demandments.

https://www.dawnbutler.org.uk/news/statement-regarding-the-ten-pledges-for-labour-leadership-and-deputy-leadership-candidates-by-the-board-of-deputies-of-british-jews/

That's won her my vote.

[greencalx]

A sensible and pragmatic position. And therefore completely wrong in the eyes of almost everyone.

Is Butler a goodie, then?

[Thursday]

Butler and Burgon are definitely looking better than Rayner for me at this point. I know she's the most well known, and she certainly wouldn't be briefing against RLB like Watson was with Corbyn, but I do think people should look into this a bit more and not just go with Rayner by default.

[Johnny Yesno]

Butler and Burgon are definitely looking better than Rayner for me at this point. I know she's the most well known, and she certainly wouldn't be briefing against RLB like Watson was with Corbyn, but I do think people should look into this a bit more and not just go with Rayner by default.

Yes, I'm coming round to the idea of Butler or Burgon as deputy.

[NoSleep]

I've forgotten now which candidate alluded to Watson's "mischief" whilst holding the position. I thought "nice one".

[New folder]

Butler on the ten demandments.

https://www.dawnbutler.org.uk/news/statement-regarding-the-ten-pledges-for-labour-leadership-and-deputy-leadership-candidates-by-the-board-of-deputies-of-british-jews/

I don't understand this. She begins by saying that she has "a great deal of respect" for a group who were complicit in ruining the possibility of a government that would actually care about ordinary people and make their lives better. It's an outright lie that she respects them. And if she does, how and why? They took down her party and directly oppose the socialist values she holds. She then says that the BoD are working to eradicate antisemitism, when she knows full well that their smear campaign has actually, if anything, made it worse. Another lie.

She says it "brings shame on us all". I'm not ashamed. I have done nothing wrong. I hold no prejudice towards Jewish people, and never will. None of us do. Why am I supposed to feel shame for simply supporting Corbyn? Why should Butler herself feel ashamed? She has done nothing wrong and has nothing to apologise for.

So why does she lie to us and gaslight us in order to avoid hurting the feelings of the BoD -- a small group of evil Tory cunts who actively make the world a worse place for everybody except a select few? Why is it so fucking hard to just tell the truth? Why is this the best we've got?

I mean, many actual Jewish lefties clearly agree with this, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIKeufHY6l8&t=3336

[Johnny Yesno]

I don't understand this. She begins by saying that she has "a great deal of respect" for a group who were complicit in ruining the possibility of a government that would actually care about ordinary people and make their lives better. It's an outright lie that she respects them. And if she does, how and why? They took down her party and directly oppose the socialist values she holds. She then says that the BoD are working to eradicate antisemitism, when she knows full well that their smear campaign has actually, if anything, made it worse. Another lie.

She says it "brings shame on us all". I'm not ashamed. I have done nothing wrong. I hold no prejudice towards Jewish people, and never will. None of us do. Why am I supposed to feel shame for simply supporting Corbyn? Why should Butler herself feel ashamed? She has done nothing wrong and has nothing to apologise for.

So why does she lie to us and gaslight us in order to avoid hurting the feelings of the BoD -- a small group of evil Tory cunts who actively make the world a worse place for everybody except a select few? Why is it so fucking hard to just tell the truth? Why is this the best we've got?

I mean, many actual Jewish lefties clearly agree with this, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIKeufHY6l8&t=3336

She's effectively shut down that line of attack without giving any ground. So has Burgon. Either stop being hysterical or go and get started on this new party you've been on about. You don't have much time to get it up and running.

[Buelligan]

1.  RLB 
I think she's the only candidate worth voting for so I'm just voting for her.

1.   Burgon
2.   Butler?
3.   Rayner? 
Might only vote Burgon.  He's the only one out of them I trust.  I simply cannot face another Watson.

[New folder]

She's effectively shut down that line of attack without giving any ground. So has Burgon. Either stop being hysterical or go and get started on this new party you've been on about. You don't have much time to get it up and running.

Please don't be personal like that. I believe that I posed legitimate questions about the current state of politics, and that I also have the right to be frustrated.

I just think that politics shouldn't be about "lines of attack", or "optics" or thinking about what the media will say. I believe it should be about telling the truth.

I also don't think that there necessarily needs to be a new party, as long as the few genuine socialists in Labour begin to speak with integrity and honesty, as one of them did 5 years ago (before he was effectively muzzled). They might be surprised at how much people value these qualities.

[chveik]

She's effectively shut down that line of attack without giving any ground. So has Burgon. Either stop being hysterical or go and get started on this new party you've been on about. You don't have much time to get it up and running.

fucking hell mate

[Buelligan]

In case anyone's not reading the other thread, here's a snippet from the deputy hustings posted by NS that may help your deliberations

Just in case you're wondering why those two got picked on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIpeVHm68Fs&feature=youtu.be&t=3760

The BoD don't want people to think before agreeing to their demands.

[Johnny Yesno]

Please don't be personal like that. I believe that I posed legitimate questions about the current state of politics, and that I also have the right to be frustrated.

Ok, but with your talk of forming a new party, it sounded like you'd already decided what the answers are to those questions. We're all frustrated at the moment.

I just think that politics shouldn't be about "lines of attack", or "optics" or thinking about what the media will say. I believe it should be about telling the truth.

I agree and I supported Chris Williamson's belief about not auto-apologising for everything without looking at the evidence first. However, he is toast. Butler and Burgon look like they have found another approach that doesn't involve betraying their principles.

I also don't think that there necessarily needs to be a new party, as long as the few genuine socialists in Labour begin to speak with integrity and honesty, as one of them did 5 years ago (before he was effectively muzzled). They might be surprised at how much people value these qualities.

Hey, you're preaching to the converted. I'm supporting the continuity candidate. The one largely behind the previous two manifestos.

[Cuellar]

Not voting for any of these cunts