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Laurence Fox - Another anti-woke grifter [split topic]

Started by jobotic, January 17, 2020, 04:34:18 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Blue Jam

Quote from: BritishHobo on October 20, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
I never get that thing with people like Hopkins or Clarkson, and journalists going 'oh they're lovely in real, she just says it for the publicity and the money!' As if calling migrants cockroaches in the press and saying they should be gunned down is okay if you're only doing it for money.

I don't think that's what they mean tbf, I think they're just expressing surprise that these people aren't completely charmless monsters.

...but yes, as Kurt Vonnegut once wrote, we are who we pretend to be.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: BritishHobo on October 20, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
I never get that thing with people like Hopkins or Clarkson, and journalists going 'oh they're lovely in real, she just says it for the publicity and the money!' As if calling migrants cockroaches in the press and saying they should be gunned down is okay if you're only doing it for money.

It's still shit for cunts but I got the impression a lot of Clarkson's stuff wasn't close to Hopkins, mostly 'for god's sake' angry dad stuff and some really lazy and crap stereotypes rather than actively fanning the flames of bigotry, not that his shtick was zero cost either.

Blue Jam

Yes, I think Hopkins is closer to Milo, with his charm and his weird friendship with Laurie Penny. Doesn't seem to have a black heart full of hatred in person, still capable of harassing people and spreading dangerous lies and not giving a fuck about the consequences.

BritishHobo

Piers Morgan has to be the most hated I'd say. With his anti-government stuff during COVID drawing ire from right-wingers and anti-mask comspiracy dullards, he's achieved the rare feat of being seen by people across the political spectrum as an obnoxious cunt. At best a few people think of him in terms of a stopped clock- an obnoxious cunt who's been right a couple of times but who otherwise can fuck off.

dissolute ocelot

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on October 20, 2020, 04:24:15 PM
It's still shit for cunts but I got the impression a lot of Clarkson's stuff wasn't close to Hopkins, mostly 'for god's sake' angry dad stuff and some really lazy and crap stereotypes rather than actively fanning the flames of bigotry, not that his shtick was zero cost either.
Yeah, Clarkson wasn't about drowning foreigners, just making stupid lazy jokes about them. He did advocate some violence but it was more things like "let's kill strikers/cyclists/pedestrians", the sort of stuff that 90% of grumpy middle-aged men say in private. Clearly not intended as serious, but at the same time the sort of thing that dehumanises people and encourages drivers to shout at cyclists even if they don't run them over. Punching your underlings when they give bad news is a different kind of cuntery, though. And I guess Clarkson fed into the idiotic nationalism/patriotism/Brexit thing (there's a meme going round now about how Brunel was part-French, bilingual, studied in France, and a model of internationalism, but for Clarkson he was BRITAIN IS GRATEST).

Buelligan

Quote from: BritishHobo on October 20, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
I never get that thing with people like Hopkins or Clarkson, and journalists going 'oh they're lovely in real, she just says it for the publicity and the money!' As if calling migrants cockroaches in the press and saying they should be gunned down is okay if you're only doing it for money.

Absolutely.  As if only doing it for the money allows the individual involved to retain some shred of human decency, instead of what it actually does, which is confirm that they are far, far, worse, far more debased and corrupt, than people who are cunts because they believe something cuntish to be right and true.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on October 21, 2020, 11:47:08 AM
Yeah, Clarkson wasn't about drowning foreigners, just making stupid lazy jokes about them. He did advocate some violence but it was more things like "let's kill strikers/cyclists/pedestrians", the sort of stuff that 90% of grumpy middle-aged men say in private. Clearly not intended as serious, but at the same time the sort of thing that dehumanises people and encourages drivers to shout at cyclists even if they don't run them over. Punching your underlings when they give bad news is a different kind of cuntery, though. And I guess Clarkson fed into the idiotic nationalism/patriotism/Brexit thing (there's a meme going round now about how Brunel was part-French, bilingual, studied in France, and a model of internationalism, but for Clarkson he was BRITAIN IS GRATEST).

He seems like a relic these days. Did getting binned from Top Gear have a wider effect on his prominence or are people still lapping up his bollocks? I didn't watch TG, but it was still easy for me to passively absorb the odd thing, usually for bad reasons.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Buelligan on October 21, 2020, 11:55:15 AM
Absolutely.  As if only doing it for the money allows the individual involved to retain some shred of human decency, instead of what it actually does, which is confirm that they are far, far, worse, far more debased and corrupt, than people who are cunts because they believe something cuntish to be right and true.

In some ways it seems worse when the positions are less outrageous, or maybe because I knew Hopkins was bollocks, but the guardian journalists revealing themselves to all be grifters hit me worse.

Or maybe it's just it affected me slightly rather than dismissing it easily with 'she either believes it and is a cunt or is doing it for money and is a cunt'.

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on October 21, 2020, 11:58:50 AM
He seems like a relic these days. Did getting binned from Top Gear have a wider effect on his prominence or are people still lapping up his bollocks? I didn't watch TG, but it was still easy for me to passively absorb the odd thing, usually for bad reasons.

People still love him and will happily fight for him, as demonstrated by every Top Gear social media post having a long list of tedious wankers moaning about how it's not as good as it used to be. The same cunts who clog up the Mini Twitter feed pointing out that the "new" Mini is too big to be called a Mini.

Paul Calf

The weird thing about Clarkson is that he's absolutely firmly pro-EU.

Blue Jam

#1150
Quote from: Paul Calf on October 21, 2020, 03:48:33 PM
The weird thing about Clarkson is that he's absolutely firmly pro-EU.

So was his best mate AA Gill.

That's the difference between Clarkson, Gill etc and all these grifters. Grifters are playing to the gallery and have to follow a narrative. There's no room for any surprising opinions.

Another difference is that Clarkson and Gill are/were actually good writers.

dissolute ocelot

Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on October 21, 2020, 03:34:17 PM
People still love him and will happily fight for him, as demonstrated by every Top Gear social media post having a long list of tedious wankers moaning about how it's not as good as it used to be. The same cunts who clog up the Mini Twitter feed pointing out that the "new" Mini is too big to be called a Mini.
Clarkson most recently popped up in the media last week moaning about COVID restrictions interfering with his Amazon Prime tv show. Apparently it's all a conspiracy by the Scots to punish the English.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Blue Jam on October 21, 2020, 03:55:13 PM
So was his best mate AA Gill.

That's the difference between Clarkson, Gill etc and all these grifters. Grifters are playing to the gallery and have to follow a narrative. There's no room for any surprising opinions.

Apropos of absolutely nothing other than his name being mentioned, I'm no fan at all but one of the best pieces of newspaper journalism I've EVER read was one of Gill's restaurant reviews in the Sunday Times.  Those of you who have read or are familiar with those reviews will know that they routinely ran two full pages, sometimes three.  Anyway, in this one he summed up a completely forgettable dining experience in just an opening sentence or two and then spent the rest of the article on a particularly Tolstoyan winter car journey him and his family had gone through in recent weeks.  Spectacular piece of writing that was - genuinely funny, familiar, knowing etc.

Paul Calf

I love a good restaurant review. I often lie awake in bed reading them when I get hit by insomnia. Do you have a link to it?

Blue Jam

#1154
The Times once sent Clarkson and Gill to Mykonos to write a review for their travel section and it was a cracking read, a proper bit of Gonzo journalism. Yes, perhaps they have/had some awful opinions but they're no hacks.

By contrast Milo was lost without his ghostwriters. A now ex-Facebook friend of mine used to post lots of Quillette articles and the ones I tried to read were all overly wordy unreadable waffle.

The success of these grifters is baffling- it doesn't seem to matter if you can't express your opinions eloquently, as long as they're the "right" opinions a certain audience will still lap them up.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Paul Calf on October 21, 2020, 04:17:34 PM
I love a good restaurant review. I often lie awake in bed reading them when I get hit by insomnia. Do you have a link to it?

Christ no, this was YEARS ago.  It certainly pre-dated all of the forehead slapping stuff that he would eventually only be known for, and may have even pre-dated the Times having a website.

Blue Jam

Quote from: Paul Calf on October 21, 2020, 04:17:34 PM
I love a good restaurant review. I often lie awake in bed reading them when I get hit by insomnia. Do you have a link to it?

Sorry to go off topic but you may find this a handy bedside companion:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Dining-Hell-Penguin-Specials-ebook/dp/B0080K3P2M

Quote from: Paul Calf on October 21, 2020, 03:48:33 PM
The weird thing about Clarkson is that he's absolutely firmly pro-EU.

Clarkson's passionate knowledge of the issues that led to and from WWII elevates him well beyond the gallery of nationalist poppy shaggers.

As Blue Jam points out, Clarkson is a great writer and probably the best motoring writer that's ever lived. It makes all the tedious wankery all the more disappointing.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Blue Jam on October 21, 2020, 04:25:58 PM
Sorry to go off topic but you may find this a handy bedside companion:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Dining-Hell-Penguin-Specials-ebook/dp/B0080K3P2M

I can second the rec for that.  All of his books are a good read.

Is that the one where he relates an incredibly expensive and utterly disgusting Michelin meal and then stops on the way home for a doner, which he found far more satisfying?

Blue Jam

#1159
This isn't the one, but it's a great read:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/09/le-cinq-paris-restaurant-review-jay-rayner


Anyway... it's great being left-leaning and objective isn't it? I like being able to admit some right-leaning writers are actually talented and that Billy Bragg has a horrible voice and Mark Thomas isn't funny. It's better than being right-leaning and having to fake laughter at Titiana McGrath and Ben Garrison and pretend that Laurence Fox's music is good while missing out on lots of great comedy because it's on the BBC and you've become convinced it might be PC or left-wing.

Shit Good Nose

Not the one I'm thinking of, but that one HAS - rightly - gone down in legend.

Ferris



imitationleather

Quote from: Blue Jam on October 21, 2020, 03:55:13 PM
So was his best mate AA Gill.

I read this and subsequent posts mentioning his name thinking you were talking about GG Allin. It painted quite the mental picture.

pigamus

Quote from: Buelligan on October 21, 2020, 10:39:24 PM
And bollocks.

Team Blue Jam. His cover of She's Leaving Home is one of the worst things I've ever heard.

Buelligan

Is it because of his voice though?  Because, if it was, your opinion would not be confined to the one track (IMO).

It's rather beautiful.

wosl

Quote from: Blue Jam on October 21, 2020, 04:44:57 PM
Billy Bragg has a horrible voice

He sounds like Jeff Buckley after a honey gargle, compared to Dylan.

non capisco

I could listen to him singing Way Over Yonder In The Minor Key forever. The Beatles cover is absolute shite though, I agree. The TOTP performance of that is hilarious, as recounted by the man himself. Basically he couldn't remember the lyrics so got them taped on a bit of paper to the studio floor, then this being 1980s Top Of The Pops someone gives it some full helmet on the dry ice machine and he can't read a thing with fake fog up to his shins. His voice cracks Simon Le Bon at Live Aid style on the word "kitchen" and then you hear someone loudly fall over in the background. He's thinking "Brilliant, they'll have to do another take of this now" but NO.

idunnosomename

A.A. Gill was a cunt and his columns sucked. he fucked amber rudd and spawned, then referred to his new wife as "The Blonde" in his columns because haha bants

one of the least lamented departures of 2016

pigamus

Quote from: non capisco on October 21, 2020, 11:05:53 PM
I could listen to him singing Way Over Yonder In The Minor Key forever.

Actually that's nice, his voice sounds less harsh there. Is that Natalie Merchant in the background?