Laurence Fox - Another anti-woke grifter [split topic]

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

Beautiful. Look at all the right-wing "thought and analysis" in this thread.

You probably went to university and smoked dope for three years. Dur-hur-hur.

Wretched thread, but appropriate for the subject.

Who is right-wing? Can you tell me.

You seem to be one of those people who drifts into threads telling everyone they're wrong without ever explaining why.

I don't see what's wretched about the thread either. Most people are just calmly disagreeing with each other.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

What has always puzzled me about these people is, presumably they think they're right, so why don't they honestly fight their corner thus, why do they chose to fight so many of their battles against what a lot of them must know is a fictionalised enemy? In comparison, in threads like the Graham Linehan thread what you see is people taking issue with things he actually says and does. They don't think "sod that, I'll make shit up about him instead, I'll be able to demolish that easier".

I don't get it either. But the limited numbered of people turning up to dismantle a strawman in two sentences are liable to do this in every thread. It's their MO. A brief peek into their posting history usually reveals they're not willing to spend more than 240 characters on a topic at the best of it, so it's hardly surprising. Leave them be to win the imaginary battles passing through their heads I say.

[Ambient Sheep]

I have investigated it, the term "white privilege" is a load of bollocks

Isn't it just easier to admit it's a concept you aren't fully comfortable with because you're from a different time?

Oi!  I'm (presumably) 14 years older than him, and I have no problem with the concept of "white privilege".

My parents (born 1917 & 1921) scandalised some of their social circle when they had a black guy as their GP just after WW2.

Bigotry or otherwise isn't correlated with when you were born.  I'd argue it's more about the culture into which you were born.


Depressingly, it also seems to be genetic.  There was a piece in New Scientist a few years ago where they found evidence for what one might call a "xenophobia" gene, oversimplifying massively.

[phantom_power]

I don't know why it is so hard for some people to admit that in certain ways they have it easy compared to others, which is really what white privilege (or "x" privilege) is. I can see that I have never been abused in the street or not got a job because of the colour of my skin. I have never have to walk home at night in fear of being raped. I have a familial support system that means I will probably never be homeless or destitute. I am lucky enough to be born with a certain aptitude for things that mean I can have a job that pays decent wages. All of these things are a "privilege" or "benefit" or whatever you want to call it that I have not contributed to but exist anyway.

I don't really understand how you can say that racism exists but white privilege doesn't. They are different sides of the same coin

[pigamus]

That word is just a massive trigger.

"Privilege? Privilege? I don't feel very fucking privileged mate" and that's as far as you get.

[Thursday]

I don't know why it is so hard for some people to admit that in certain ways they have it easy compared to others, which is really what white privilege (or "x" privilege) is. I can see that I have never been abused in the street or not got a job because of the colour of my skin. I have never have to walk home at night in fear of being raped. I have a familial support system that means I will probably never be homeless or destitute. I am lucky enough to be born with a certain aptitude for things that mean I can have a job that pays decent wages. All of these things are a "privilege" or "benefit" or whatever you want to call it that I have not contributed to but exist anyway.

I don't really understand how you can say that racism exists but white privilege doesn't. They are different sides of the same coin

It's especially weird to complain about it if you're Laurence Fox, rather than someone that might be struggling to pay bills every month, and put food table, and you have various mental health issues that makes it hard to have happy healthy relationships etc... but those aren't typically the people do refute the idea of white privilege.

I can understand the concept - when your complaining about a relatively trivial thing, you don't want to hear "Well people are starving in Africa!" It doesn't really solve your issue, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to acknowledge something might be a relatively small problem.

[sevendaughters]

Most far left academics I know don't really agree with identity politics, just like those batting pro-Fox here. It's a total straw man. Far left academics prize class discourse over ultimately post-colonial ideas like white privilege that have been, HIRONICALLY, hijacked by white liberals.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

Fair point. I attended a Bertrand Russell conference a few years back and I don't recall a single academic going on about identity politics. We could probably do with separating out the actual academics from the student body/post grads who blog.

[chveik]

Most far left academics I know don't really agree with identity politics, just like those batting pro-Fox here. It's a total straw man. Far left academics prize class discourse over ultimately post-colonial ideas like white privilege that have been, HIRONICALLY, hijacked by white liberals.

very true, but you can't expect these lads to see far left academics other than ctulhuesque figures haunting their nights.

[wooders1978]

I don't know why it is so hard for some people to admit that in certain ways they have it easy compared to others, which is really what white privilege (or "x" privilege) is. I can see that I have never been abused in the street or not got a job because of the colour of my skin. I have never have to walk home at night in fear of being raped. I have a familial support system that means I will probably never be homeless or destitute. I am lucky enough to be born with a certain aptitude for things that mean I can have a job that pays decent wages. All of these things are a "privilege" or "benefit" or whatever you want to call it that I have not contributed to but exist anyway.

I don't really understand how you can say that racism exists but white privilege doesn't. They are different sides of the same coin

You can't say for certain that whatever jobs you've had, have been held in the balance because of your skin colour, i don't know you obviously, but I suspect all the people who have been nice enough to employ you might feel a fair bit offended if they were to know you suspected that.

You don't have to fear being raped because you're not a woman (though that would almost certainly change in circumstances such as being in prison)

You have a good family who are relatively well enough to do that you won't be out on the streets if you go through a rough patch, to ascertain that everyone who is white has that privilege and everyone of a different race doesn't is problematic 

"Lucky enough to be born with a certain aptitude to be paid a decent wage" - because you are white?? Another highly problematic statement right there.

Sorry man I don't mean to pick on you in particular but so many people who talk about white privilege do so because they perceive they're own lived experience as privileged, which is very much correct in most cases, but it is erroneous to think that the privilege you have enjoyed is simply because you were born white

[keir]

I see a lot of "you can't say for certain", as if that's enough to negate something. I once had someone on twitter who had the fourteen words in their bio trying to tell me that they weren't a racist. Hypothetically there could be other reasons for them having that in their bio, but I think they were a racist.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

I would make the tenuous claim that, in all large metropolitan centres, it would be phenomenally unlikely to be discriminated against for a job on the basis of the colour of your skin. Your mileage will likely deteriorate out in villages/small towns, but I suspect this is the case in most of the urban areas people congregate. I personally know privately-educated CEOs who employ ethnic minorities/Muslims. Even the 'establishment' aren't bothered about skin colour. We can see this even in the Tory party. The argument has been won.

I think where racism does make a difference is in those transitionary places (e.g. name-calling on public transport) which won't make a difference to your life materially, but probably will knock your confidence and make you think twice about the average person on the street. This is obviously abhorrent, but we need to separate this out from the kind of racism that exists in the workplace, which I suspect is negligible.

[phantom_power]

You can't say for certain that whatever jobs you've had, have been held in the balance because of your skin colour, i don't know you obviously, but I suspect all the people who have been nice enough to employ you might feel a fair bit offended if they were to know you suspected that.

You don't have to fear being raped because you're not a woman (though that would almost certainly change in circumstances such as being in prison)

You have a good family who are relatively well enough to do that you won't be out on the streets if you go through a rough patch, to ascertain that everyone who is white has that privilege and everyone of a different race doesn't is problematic 

"Lucky enough to be born with a certain aptitude to be paid a decent wage" - because you are white?? Another highly problematic statement right there.

Sorry man I don't mean to pick on you in particular but so many people who talk about white privilege do so because they perceive they're own lived experience as privileged, which is very much correct in most cases, but it is erroneous to think that the privilege you have enjoyed is simply because you were born white

You're missing the point. I am talking about all kinds of privilege, not just white. I can walk around at night without fear of rape. That is male privilege. I have family that support me. That is the privilege of being born into a loving family. All these things are "privileges" or "benefits" or "luck" or whatever you want to call it. I have not had to suffer racial discrimination because I am white. I don't know why this is so hard to understand

[phantom_power]

I personally know privately-educated CEOs who employ ethnic minorities/Muslims.

Well that settles it then. Racism has been defeated in the world of business

[Cuellar]

Even the 'establishment' aren't bothered about skin colour. We can see this even in the Tory party.

The Tory Party led by the guy who could bandy around 'picaninnies with watermelon smiles' and said Muslim women look like letterboxes with no repercussions?

[wooders1978]

I see a lot of "you can't say for certain", as if that's enough to negate something. I once had someone on twitter who had the fourteen words in their bio trying to tell me that they weren't a racist. Hypothetically there could be other reasons for them having that in their bio, but I think they were a racist.

You think they were but you can't say for certain?

[Cardenio I]

Comprehension not your strong suit, eh, wooders?

[wooders1978]

You're missing the point. I am talking about all kinds of privilege, not just white. I can walk around at night without fear of rape. That is male privilege. I have family that support me. That is the privilege of being born into a loving family. All these things are "privileges" or "benefits" or "luck" or whatever you want to call it. I have not had to suffer racial discrimination because I am white. I don't know why this is so hard to understand

Ok, I apologise and I agree that "privilege" definitely exists - I'm probably living a few pages ago when people were saying it basically is guaranteed if you are white, which I absolutely disagree with, as eluded to in earlier posts - privilege comes in all shapes and forms, for a myriad of reasons, no disputing that from me 

[wooders1978]

Comprehension not your strong suit, eh, wooders?

So I am told mate. :*(

[Mister Six]

Ok, I apologise and I agree that "privilege" definitely exists - I'm probably living a few pages ago when people were saying it basically is guaranteed if you are white, which I absolutely disagree with, as eluded to in earlier posts - privilege comes in all shapes and forms, for a myriad of reasons, no disputing that from me

JFC.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality

[wooders1978]

Does jfc stand for "just for clarity"? Asking for a friend

[Mister Six]

Sure.

[wooders1978]

Please don't say it stands for "just for comprehension" otherwise we're in trouble

[petril]

"just for cunts", to advertise a range of ironic style hair dyes

[shh]

The Tory Party led by the guy who could bandy around 'picaninnies with watermelon smiles' and said Muslim women look like letterboxes with no repercussions?

The piccaninny stuff is hard to defend, but only in your head is there anything offensive about making a visual comparison between a burka and a node in the postal network.
I think you need to pick your battles more selectively. Even channel 4 are mocking Meghan (The Windsors).

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

The piccaninny stuff is hard to defend, but only in your head is there anything offensive about making a visual comparison betweeI'M A RACIST

[Cuellar]

The piccaninny stuff is hard to defend, but only in your head is there anything offensive about making a visual comparison between a burka and a node in the postal network.
I think you need to pick your battles more selectively. Even channel 4 are mocking Meghan (The Windsors).

The fuck's Meghan got to do with it? What are you on about?

[shh]

I understand that's how this man earned his infamy.

[QDRPHNC]

I'm sure any group of masked, heavily armed protesters occupying a government building would be treated equally, no matter their colour.

[Bronzy]

I'm sure any group of masked, heavily armed protesters occupying a government building would be treated equally, no matter their colour.

White = IRA

Brown = ISIS

Black = Chagossian Nationalists, or something

East Asian = Ninjas