Comedy you love but begrudgingly recognise is starting to date

[TheMonk]

Just dug into a few early "Only Fools And Horses" episodes. It seems to me they now often moves very slowly compared to modern comedy which is a bit jarring. Also the casual racism and sexism can be ignored but it feels harder to do now than it used to be. Some of the big laughs are clearly what we'd now call "dubious", which at the least takes you out of the show a bit.

Porridge on the other hounds feels more modern and real and shows few signs of age.

Any examples of shows you love that you feel are starting to creak?

[Utter Shit]

With one notable exception (Albert referring to reggae as "monkey music") I always thought the racial humour in Fools And Horses was, if not fine, then at least coming from a good place.

In fact I thought Sullivan did a good job of creating a fairly multi-cultural world where race wasn't really relevant - not much is made of Denzil or Lennox being black, and you see plenty of non-white faces in the pub treated exactly the same as everyone else. There are jokes about them, but no different to any other characters. Obviously it is easy for me as a white person to say that, it would be interesting to read the perspective of a non-white person.

The homophobic stuff though...fucking hell. That really hasn't dated well. The most egregious example (Del convinced he has AIDS because he got his hair cut by a gay man) does at least have Rodney as the show's conscience, but there are loads of moments where gayness is presented as shameful and unacceptable in Del's view.

[Jumblegraws]

I rewatch the The Office from time to time and, over the years, Tim's casual homophobia has drifted from feeling authentic to the sort of person portrayed to disappointing and jarring.

[Icehaven]

Since it was first broadcast I've only rewatched Spaced once, probably about 15 years ago when I was given the DVD boxset as a present, but reading this article;

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jan/11/the-stars-of-spaced-reunited-21st-anniversary-simon-pegg-jessica-hynes-edgar-wright-nick-frost

I was surprised how many commenters disagreed with the headline and reckon it's dated already. But anything so soaked in pop culture references would do I guess.

[gatchamandave]

Though "Babylon 5 is a big pile of shit !!!" seems more correct in retrospect

[Better Midlands]

Since it was first broadcast I've only rewatched Spaced once, probably about 15 years ago when I was given the DVD boxset as a present, but reading this article;

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jan/11/the-stars-of-spaced-reunited-21st-anniversary-simon-pegg-jessica-hynes-edgar-wright-nick-frost

I was surprised how many commenters disagreed with the headline and reckon it's dated already. But anything so soaked in pop culture references would do I guess.

There's a 21st anniversary Q&A here, no Nick Frost though

https://youtu.be/v7CWX7U5xjA

[purlieu]

Though "Babylon 5 is a big pile of shit !!!" seems more correct in retrospect

Bring back the karma, Neil, this post needs to be negged into the ground.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Since it was first broadcast I've only rewatched Spaced once, probably about 15 years ago when I was given the DVD boxset as a present, but reading this article;

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jan/11/the-stars-of-spaced-reunited-21st-anniversary-simon-pegg-jessica-hynes-edgar-wright-nick-frost

I was surprised how many commenters disagreed with the headline and reckon it's dated already. But anything so soaked in pop culture references would do I guess.

Most of the ones I've read seem to be having a pop at Friends.

[mrpupkin]

Since it was first broadcast I've only rewatched Spaced once, probably about 15 years ago when I was given the DVD boxset as a present, but reading this article;

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jan/11/the-stars-of-spaced-reunited-21st-anniversary-simon-pegg-jessica-hynes-edgar-wright-nick-frost

I was surprised how many commenters disagreed with the headline and reckon it's dated already. But anything so soaked in pop culture references would do I guess.

I happened to watch the first episode recently, that massive flat they're renting in north London is £90 a week!

[Captain Z]

I happened to watch the first episode recently, that massive flat they're renting in north London is £90 a week!

That's around £750 in 1999 money.

[Shit Good Nose]

I think pretty much every single piece of entertainment made before the late 00s will almost certainly have something in it which has "aged" and doesn't stand up to current..."more enlightened" thinking.

I think you (the general royal you - no one specific here) either have to stop complaining and nit-picking, accept it and continue to enjoy it all for what it was - knowing full well that "times were different" and thinking evolves - or you just avoid everything made before about 2009 and pretend it didn't happen.  Anything in between is bound to cause grief at some point.

[Utter Shit]

Most of the ones I've read seem to be having a pop at Friends.

Friends has definitely dated badly, at least for a show that pretty much never seemed offensive at the time. It's a weirdly conflicted show - they bothered to create a normal, loving lesbian relationship at a time where that wasn't especially common, but then there are so many homophobic jokes that someone created a montage of them that lasts FIFTY FUCKING MINUTES. I'm always surprised in retrospect at just how one-note and spiteful all the jokes about Monica being fat are.

[ajsmith2]

or you just avoid everything made before about 2009 and pretend it didn't happen.  Anything in between is bound to cause grief at some point.

I'd move that 2009 forward to at least 2014, if not 2016. So many 'attitudes' changes during the decade that just ended.

[bgmnts]

How far back does something have to go before you apply cultural relativsm and stop going "oh this is a bit wrong"?

Like if you read about something cunty some Roman general did 2000 years ago you're never arsed because it was so long ago and thats just how it was.

10 more years? 20?

[Dewt]

I find The Young Ones interesting, because despite the fact that its cultural references, student life, the look of the footage itself etc. has dated (it was dated when I fell in love with the show in the 90s!), I think a lot of the motifs of the programme are on point. Rik is a very good depiction of somebody trying to be woke, Vyv is a great nihilist, Mike's cool corrupt bloke is pretty accurate. Neil is the only actual dated character.

[jobotic]

How far back does something have to go before you apply cultural relativsm and stop going "oh this is a bit wrong"?

Like if you read about something cunty some Roman general did 2000 years ago you're never arsed because it was so long ago and thats just how it was.

10 more years? 20?

I'd be arsed if he was banging on on twitter about how cunty Roman Generals are the real persecuted minority and you can't even say "throw him to the lions" any more.

But that's not what this thread is about I suppose.

It's painful cultural references that date stuff but I've found that more a problem in things like Dr Who than comedy.

[Autopsy Turvey]

Neil is the only actual dated character.

Oh I don't know, arguably the apocalyptic depressive paranoid self-absorbed moaning vegan student with posh rich parents still has pretty rich cultural resonance.

[Shit Good Nose]

Friends has definitely dated badly, at least for a show that pretty much never seemed offensive at the time. It's a weirdly conflicted show - they bothered to create a normal, loving lesbian relationship at a time where that wasn't especially common, but then there are so many homophobic jokes that someone created a montage of them that lasts FIFTY FUCKING MINUTES. I'm always surprised in retrospect at just how one-note and spiteful all the jokes about Monica being fat are.

Luckily I've always hated Friends.

How far back does something have to go before you apply cultural relativsm and stop going "oh this is a bit wrong"?

Like if you read about something cunty some Roman general did 2000 years ago you're never arsed because it was so long ago and thats just how it was.

10 more years? 20?

It's a good point/question.  I don't know the answer but, as I've mentioned a few times in other relating threads, I always used to struggle with being a fan of many Roman Polanski films, until someone (I think on here) pointed me to the fact that several of the Italian renaissance painters basically raped their young (as in most of them were children) assistants and students, so ever since then I've been able to detach a person from their art (if necessary) and haven't felt guilty about it.  That's not to say I fully support rape and nonceing of course and have big football game/festival flags made up to that effect, but I'm able to ignore (or, rather, "decompartmentalise") the questionable stuff.

I don't know if there's a right answer.  I don't even know if there is an answer.  I just know that when someone tells me that I'm displaying toxic masculinity for liking The Cannonball Run because of its "casual misogyny", I tell them to fuck off and stop being so obtuse.  True story.


For the record, I don't like Cannonball Run because is features casual misogyny (to paraphrase Apocalypse Now, singling out the 80s film Cannonball Run is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500), I like it because it's stupid, it makes me laugh and it makes me happy.  That doesn't mean I'm about to go round sqwuaking at women (or men!) and slapping their arses.

[Shit Good Nose]

I'd move that 2009 forward to at least 2014, if not 2016. So many 'attitudes' changes during the decade that just ended.

You are right, I just picked 2009 as that seemed to be the beginnings of wokery and when things really started to kick off with metoo and all that.

[NoOffenceLynn]

The Paddy Irishman stick comes up in Only Fools and Fawlty Towers.

Still love them both though.

[Alberon]

All this does make me wonder how comedy today will seem outdated fifteen or twenty years from now.

[Utter Shit]

The Paddy Irishman stick comes up in Only Fools and Fawlty Towers.

Still love them both though.

Doesn't Brendan the Irishman in Fools And Horses subvert that cliché though? He's a bit of a schemer (though ultimately outfoxed by Del) and even loses Del a bet by ordering a Martini rather than a pint!

"Man with Beard" in Fawlty Towers is definitely pretty dodgy as far as that stereotype goes, but the appalling Dublin accent is far more concerning to me. I suppose O'Reilly is supposed to be thick and incompetent too, but David Kelly fills the role with so much charm and warmth it's difficult to find anything too offensive there for me.

[Utter Shit]

All this does make me wonder how comedy today will seem outdated fifteen or twenty years from now.

Well if the IT Crowd is anything to go by it will be much the same, except the criticism will send the writers mad.

[NoOffenceLynn]

Doesn't Brendan the Irishman in Fools And Horses subvert that cliché though? He's a bit of a schemer (though ultimately outfoxed by Del) and even loses Del a bet w by ordering a Martini rather than a pint!

true, I remember the big 6ft Irish man causally ordering a Martini :)

[gilbertharding]

Well if the IT Crowd is anything to go by it will be much the same, except the criticism will send the writers mad.

I watched a couple of series 1 episodes of The IT Crowd the other day (it was on...) and the main thing which bothered me - and it bothered me at the time - was the amount of SHOUTING!

[gilbertharding]

All this does make me wonder how comedy today will seem outdated fifteen or twenty years from now.

The idea of watching comedy, instead of having the humour receptors of your brain stimulated directly, will be a complete anachronism.

Also, all jokes in the year 2035 will revolve around laughing directly at other people's misfortune. In space.

[grassbath]

The UK celebs of the period in Brass Eye have dated it a little, despite the general tone of the show and the visuals being pretty on point.

[Shit Good Nose]

all jokes in the year 2035 will revolve around laughing directly at other people's misfortune in space.

Too soon

[imitationleather]

The UK celebs of the period in Brass Eye have dated it a little, despite the general tone of the show and the visuals being pretty on point.

That's true. I think a young person watching now would probably need to have it explained to them that they were what passed for celebrities in the '90s.

[Icehaven]

I happened to watch the first episode recently, that massive flat they're renting in north London is £90 a week!

The house sold for over £3 million a few years back apparently. I haven't watched Eastenders for about 20 years, do they all still live in 3 storey town houses and work on market stalls and in pubs?