Author Topic: Panorama - Smart Motorways  (Read 2335 times)

Malcy

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Panorama - Smart Motorways
« on: January 27, 2020, 09:01:25 PM »
What the fuck? I don't drive so hadn't heard of this but what an absolute fuck up. The people who approved them should be held accountable for the deaths that have occured.

They replace the hard shoulder with another lane meaning people have nowhere to stop and now more people are dying than before. 30+ on smart motorways in the past 5 years.

Smart these days just means stupid and fucking lazy. Really got me mad after watching that.

Alberon

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2020, 09:18:07 PM »
They’re doing this to the M4 near us. It’ll be another two years until it’s finished, so the speed limit is stuck at 50 until then.

But once it’s finished more people will die on it than before.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2020, 09:21:13 PM »
Unsurprisingly a tory idea.

Rumour on the public sector grapevine is that, following this review, all planned ones will be scrapped and those that have already converted, or are in the process of converting, will revert back over the next year or so.

Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2020, 10:09:49 PM »
Last Yorks-Dubs car-ferry trip we did but one was in the missus Venerable Pug, and in atrocious weather on the M62 Westbound just before Hartshead Moor Services, hard shoulder in use and us in it, cam belt snapped and we ground to halt. I never shat myself as much in my life, honks, trucks swerving to avoid us, no idea what to as panic had set in.

Called Recovery, said get out of car immediately on barrier side but even before we had chance, coppers arrived and Highway Patrol and got us to services. Coppers were saying they are dead set against smart motorways.

And after that experience so are we and kudos to the West Yorkshire Traffic Police and The UK Highways Agency, spot on.

I even shook hands with said coppers, demurely since I'm convinced they are still after me after one of them caught me and my mate nicking wood for our bommy (Bonfire) in 1966 in Bolton and he took our names and wrote them down in his little notebook.

They're onto me, I know it. it's only a matter of time before I'm fitted up with several other stolen wood crimes in the Bolton area in 1966 and banged up to rights and raped in the showers by Mr. Big who's in with the Warders.

I've lived in fear for 53 years, Like Gary Sparrow....

 

shiftwork2

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2020, 10:36:31 PM »
I haven’t seen it but isn’t the controversy more about the frequency of refuge areas to compensate for the lack of hard shoulder?  Initially planned to be every half mile or so there is no fucking way that’s true in reality.  If you lose power then you’re just not going to roll far enough to get to safety.  Safety has been sacrificed to save a few quid.

I’ve had two emergency car balls-ups on the M25 and I thank heavens they both happened on traditional stretches of road.

Blumf

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2020, 11:43:00 PM »
What's that, a short-sighted corner-cutting scheme has cost lives? Colour me shocked!

Mind you, they won't get rid of the surveillance system, and the perma-50mph despite it being good weather and clear roads (adds on over half an hour each way to my semi-regular M1 trip, at the very least)

Unsurprisingly a tory idea.

Maybe, but New Labour implemented it (so, still a Tory gov)

Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2020, 06:15:35 AM »
You wouldn't last too long as a cop if you had to work on those no-hard shoulder bastards all day. Shittin' it? Too fuckin' right shittin' it mate. The shit-slicks alone, caused by the explosive, rivers of shit runnin' out these guys would be a major hazard.

Butchers Blind

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2020, 10:28:53 AM »
Saw a report where the recovery companies won't come to you on these smart motorways if you break down unless you're in one of the refuge areas or they will wait until the motorway lane has been closed which can take up to 20 minutes. 

Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2020, 10:46:31 AM »
Encountered this fuckery on the M6 last year. Someone had gone into the back of someone else in traffic in one of the outside lanes and they are both sat there with hazards on. At this point, people are honking at them, gesticulating at them as they crawled past. Then the bloke in front of us puts his hazards on, gets out and starts raging at these people "get over on the fucking hard shoulder you stupid cunts" and the woman in the car in front is trying to explain "there's no hard shoulder, the police told us to stay here."

A tiny prang and the whole motorway is effectively closed because someone needs to come rescue them. It's so stupid.

Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2020, 11:13:56 AM »
I haven’t seen it but isn’t the controversy more about the frequency of refuge areas to compensate for the lack of hard shoulder? 

It's partly the lack of refuge areas, and partly the fact that it takes about half an hour from a car breaking down to them getting a recovery vehicle out. It apparently takes about 15 minutes just to detect that a car has broken down, and then they put the red Xs up to stop people driving in the lane. Also, a lot of people are cunts and don't believe red Xs until they can see a stationary vehicle in the lane in front of them. Also, when they do build refuges, people (especially truckers needing a rest break) use them as laybys to stop for a wank. So it needs a combination of more refuges, better ways of detecting broken down vehicles, fast action once they're detected, and ways of stopping other motorists being cunts. One or two of these things might happen, but there's no way they'll do all of them.

I believe in most countries they put grass or gravelled verges at the side that you can pull up on if you break down, which are much cheaper than paved hard shoulders, but simple, cheap solutions are not the British way.

Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2020, 02:57:08 PM »
Grass verges? One word: picnickers.
(Also, how do you build up sufficient speed to rejoin the Motorway if you're runnin' on grass?) (Jackin' up would be a challenge too)

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2020, 02:58:14 PM »
(Also, how do you build up sufficient speed to rejoin the Motorway if you're runnin' on grass?) (Jackin' up would be a challenge too)

Yes, but same issue with the smart motorway.

earl_sleek

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2020, 04:40:46 PM »
I think they're just great

Dewt

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2020, 04:46:25 PM »

MojoJojo

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2020, 05:04:11 PM »
Grass verges? One word: picnickers.
(Also, how do you build up sufficient speed to rejoin the Motorway if you're runnin' on grass?) (Jackin' up would be a challenge too)

Drivers aren't supposed to jack up on the motorway. The AA man would presumably have appropriate equipment.

Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2020, 05:19:51 PM »
Drivers aren't supposed to jack up on the motorway. The AA man would presumably have appropriate equipment.

Is that right? You aren't allowed to change a wheel on the motorway?

Dewt

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2020, 05:29:39 PM »
FFS you're not allowed to change your own wheel?

We used to have picnics in the lay-by, but I bet that's falling by the wayside (in the US and presumably every other country in the world you can't really stop casually on a motorway like that).

My boomer-style poetry is going to lament the loss of lay-by picnics.

Dewt

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2020, 05:31:13 PM »
I remember a time of trips and delight
Rides at Chessington World of Adventures, oh what a fright!
On the way home we'd pull up for a bite

But now motorways are smart and lay-bys forbidden
No more Austin Montegos and hamper fried chicken

Dewt

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2020, 05:31:46 PM »
Is all boomer poetry written in real-time? That seems to be the secret to the style.

Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2020, 07:55:56 PM »
Frame of reference possibly "not ideal":

Take care on the A30! Take care on the A2!
Don’t risk being a hazard whatever you do!
Pull over, pull over- don’t cause a wreck!
Even if you’re the art critic Waldemar Januszczak!

MojoJojo

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2020, 10:31:18 AM »
Is that right? You aren't allowed to change a wheel on the motorway?

Huh, I was sure you weren't but looking it up the closest the highway code gets is " do not put yourself in danger by attempting even simple repairs"

It is very frowned on though and I imagine the police would stop and have stern words with you even if they didn't charge you with anything.

Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2020, 11:37:32 AM »
Unsurprisingly a tory idea.

Rumour on the public sector grapevine is that, following this review, all planned ones will be scrapped and those that have already converted, or are in the process of converting, will revert back over the next year or so.

Think Blair was in charge when the first one was completed

Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2020, 10:18:35 PM »

Alberon

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2020, 10:31:42 PM »
Is that right? You aren't allowed to change a wheel on the motorway?

I've done it. In the dark, in the rain on the M4. Tyre blew just as we were accelerating down the slip road onto the motorway.

I wouldn't try it on a so-called smart motorway. I'd be off over the barrier as quick as possible.

Uncle TechTip

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2020, 12:15:58 AM »
Well, all ongoing work has been canned, which is a bit ridiculous having gone through the M62 stretch, it goes on for miles with many gantries up and ready to hang a board, and even more supports sticking out into the hard shoulder, it'll take months to tidy up. They'll come back in 12 months with more lay-bys.

Johnny Yesno

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2020, 04:24:56 PM »
Drivers aren't supposed to jack up on the motorway. The AA man would presumably have appropriate equipment.

I'd have thought NA would be more help in this situation.

Zetetic

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2020, 04:47:32 PM »
I believe in most countries they put grass or gravelled verges at the side that you can pull up on if you break down, which are much cheaper than paved hard shoulders
Soft shoulders. But I guess the point with "smart motorways" is that it's attempting to avoid having to any major work on changing road layouts and so on, that even widening to a soft shoulder would often entail.

We shouldn't really be trying to increase road capacity in most of these places anyway. Better arrangement would be to reduce them to two lanes; then you can use the lane you close for something useful - student accommodation, perhaps.

touchingcloth

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2020, 09:14:38 AM »
Soft shoulders. But I guess the point with "smart motorways" is that it's attempting to avoid having to any major work on changing road layouts and so on, that even widening to a soft shoulder would often entail.

We shouldn't really be trying to increase road capacity in most of these places anyway. Better arrangement would be to reduce them to two lanes; then you can use the lane you close for something useful - student accommodation, perhaps.

Customs tailbacks.

gilbertharding

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2020, 12:53:51 PM »
The local press here have announced something to the effect that the M20, which they are 90% of the way through 'Smartening' will not open until the government has reviewed smart motorways.

It's a bit hard to know what 'not open' means in this context. If they mean maintain the current status - which is 8 miles of road with no hard shoulder, narrow lanes and a 50mph speed limit - and no 'smart' monitoring or refuges because a review might decide smart motorways are dangerous... well, fuck that.


I found this interesting point from the sabre-roads.org.uk forum:

Quote
We have a figure that has gained widespread circulation in the last week or two of 38 for the number of people who have been killed on smart motorways.

Now it may well be that under traditional designs of D3M without mitigation measures, that number would have been higher, say, for the purposes of argument, 60.

The problem is that each of the 38 who have died under smart motorways is a real person with grieving relatives who can go on the television and explain what marvellous people they were. These are real human stories with which we can identify, and we can tell ourselves that but for smart motorways, these people would still be alive.

On the other hand, we don't know who the sixty are who might have died on conventional D3Ms had smart measures not been in place. They are anonymous. They don't have any names or faces, or grieving relatives, so it's very difficult to get people to attach the same weight to each of those saved lives as to those of real people lost on smart motorways.

At the end of the day, it is irrelevant to the relatives of people who have lost their lives on smart motorways whether more people overall would have died under alternative arrangements They will always blame smart motorways. It is no consolation to them that some other unknown anonymous abstract person didn't die because of the smart motorway measures.

But someone has to make that difficult calculation that puts all lives in the balance with equal weight.

Malcy

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Re: Panorama - Smart Motorways
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2020, 01:11:49 PM »
Im sure the Panorama episode said the figure was higher than what it would have been on a normal motorway.

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