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Labour Election Hustings:What Do They Know? Do They Know Things? Let's Find Out!

Started by NoSleep, February 04, 2020, 06:09:50 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

NoSleep

Quote from: Danger Man on February 16, 2020, 08:40:04 PM
honeychile will be making applauded posts on here for the next 20 years of Tory government.

So the media and GOB will not have ceased their "work".

honeychile

Quote from: Danger Man on February 16, 2020, 08:40:04 PM
honeychile will be making applauded posts on here for the next 20 years of Tory government.

Like i'm gonna spend the next 20 years on here with all you cunts. This is a phase, i'm at a low ebb.

Paul Calf

Just seen Jess Phillips gurning and flashing her teeth on HIGNFY.

Why is reality so tediously predictable?

poodlefaker

cuh, anti-semitism is so last year. it's trans-rights/anti-womenism that we've got to grind away at now.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: poodlefaker on February 16, 2020, 10:14:37 PM
cuh, anti-semitism is so last year. it's trans-rights/anti-womenism that we've got to grind away at now.

funny you should  say that, some seem to think nandy has fucked herself by allowing herself to be entrapped by terfs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUon9j1zJ_E&feature=youtu.be

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on February 17, 2020, 12:12:21 AM
funny you should  say that, some seem to think nandy has fucked herself by allowing herself to be entrapped by terfs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUon9j1zJ_E&feature=youtu.be

That's some serious dandruff.

pcsjwgm

Quote from: George Oscar Bluth II on February 16, 2020, 10:32:50 AM
I'm genuinely interested in what people mean when they say this. Do you mean that there wasn't a problem with anti-semitism? That there was but it was whipped up out of proportion?
What critical reporting/commentary have you read on the Labour anti-semitism "crisis", out of interest? Have you read any of Asa Winstanley, Tony Greenstein, Jonathan Cook, Jamie Stern-Weiner, Antony Lerman, Rebecca Ruth Gould (particularly on the IHRA "definition"), Norman Finkelstein, and Jewish Voice For Labour activists and researchers?

Quote from: George Oscar Bluth II on February 16, 2020, 12:07:33 PM
Anyway, let's wait for the EHRC report.
The chair of the EHRC, David Isaac, has ties to the Conservative Party:
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/David_Isaac#Putting_the_screws_on_Labour

His appointment was praised by the fanatically anti-Corbyn, pro-Israel Jewish Chronicle:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190528073615/https://www.thejc.com/news/the-diary/equal-opportunity-knocks-1.56881

Antony Lerman has comprehensively debunked the notion that the Labour Party is "institutionally anti-semitic":
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/the-labour-party-institutional-antisemitism-and-irresponsible-politics/

NoSleep

You're addressing somebody who actively wants to be part of the problem.

BlodwynPig

Serious questions have been raised about GOBII. But, for now we have to give them the benefit of the doubt until the review committee have come back to us with their full report.


chveik


Scrapey Fish

Having checked out of this thread for a long time I've found the discussion on anti Semitism interesting, especially Honeychile's interesting post. Much more nuanced than a lot of the stuff that goes around.

But the thing I'm not convinced on, which is a particular flaw of the above tweet, is that all this stuff just happened to Labour. Regardless of the rights and wrongs, it was up to Corbyn to prevent things from escalating, and he failed. Off the top of my head I can think of four major mistakes:

Just apologise directly for antisemitism, don't muddy it by saying you're against all racism

Don't give the person who did your party review a peerage shortly after

Spend the money from your increase in members on beefing up your complaints team if it is getting overloaded

Don't allow advisors to interfere in the complaints proceess and undermine staff to the point that they blow the whistle in a TV documentary

Yes the problem was weaponised but hostility is something Labour always has to manage, and it can be done. All this "poor me" stuff is grating

pigamus

I still don't know whether there is an actual problem or what the extent of it is, but without actually seeing all the shit Jennie Formby's got in her office how are we supposed to judge?

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Scrapey Fish on February 17, 2020, 07:21:08 PM
Off the top of my head I can think of four major mistakes:

Just apologise directly for antisemitism, don't muddy it by saying you're against all racism

Apologise for something your not guilty of and play down your genuine credentials? No thanks. Johnson has amply demonstrated that it's best not to apologise for anything ever.

QuoteDon't give the person who did your party review a peerage shortly after

I don't know how it works when asking someone to do an investigation into your party's processes. Do they need paying for their time? Is a peerage more cost effective? I dunno, but you have a point here that it's not the best look.

QuoteSpend the money from your increase in members on beefing up your complaints team if it is getting overloaded

If the thread in jobotic's post above is correct, then wasting your resources on fire fighting is exactly what your opponent is aiming to do.

QuoteDon't allow advisors to interfere in the complaints proceess and undermine staff to the point that they blow the whistle in a TV documentary

You're giving credence to a documentary made by a Sun journalist who already got Panorama into hot water for the lies in his previous documentary about Labour?

I guess we'll see soon enough: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/bbc-journalist-john-ware-sue-21337192

NoSleep

Quote from: Johnny Yesno on February 17, 2020, 08:55:19 PM

If the thread in jobotic's post above is correct, then wasting your resources on fire fighting is exactly what your opponent is aiming to do.


As we have seen time and time again, whatever is done is "too little" (probably because little actually needs to be done). It has the hysteric and unreal air of a witch trial.[nb]Even parodying the HUAC communist witch hunt in the 50's one time.[nb]But with Chuka pathetically failing to grill Ken.[/nb][/nb]


Cardenio I

That being the mosque whose denizens Darren Osborn drove his van into while ranting about Corbyn?

Yeah, seems like a very sound avenue of attack.

pcsjwgm

The issue of Labour anti-semitism was certainly "handled badly" by Corbyn is the sense that he should have said that the party would deal with accusations of anti-semitism in a fair and just manner, but that much of the "crisis" was manufactured bollocks. Even after Corbyn's capitulations, such as adopting the IHRA definition with all its examples and failing to support Chris Williamson, the attacks on Corbyn from the media and right-wing Jewish groups like the BoD did not cease. This was entirely predictable given that the campaign was primarily about deposing Corbyn (someone with a history of pro-Palestine activism) as well as installing a Blairite or some other right-winger in his place; it was not about opposing anti-semitism.

More on John Ware's Panorama hatchet job (if you read just one, I recommend Jonathan Cook's article in Middle East Eye):
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/bbcs-anti-corbyn-hatchet-job-fails-land-blow
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/panoramas-hatchet-job-labour-antisemitism-bbc-has-become-pro-tory-media
http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2019/07/the-bbcs-war-on-corbyn-panorama-would.html

Also, Corbyn saying that he's against "anti-semitism and all forms of racism" is something that he has been regularly criticised for but, in my opinion, he is entirely correct here. It's difficult not to notice that some of the most prominent ostensible opponents of "anti-semitism" are themselves racist pricks: Donald Trump, Alan Dershowitz, Ben Shapiro, Bret Stephens, Douglas Murray, Rod Liddle, Melanie Phillips, David Collier, etc. The anti-Corbyn #EnoughIsEnough rally outside Parliament was attended by Zac Goldsmith, Douglas Murray, Norman Tebbit, and people wearing shirts glorifying Menachem Begin. By saying that he "opposes anti-semitism and all other forms of racism", Corbyn is distinguishing himself as a genuine anti-racist, in contradistinction to the dishonest far-right cunts who are so obviously claiming to oppose anti-semitism as a weapon against the left, not out of a sincere commitment to combat racism.

Thursday

Oh look we're discussing Labour and anti-semitism again because of useful idiots who unwittingly act as tools for the far-right by repeating their talking points.

Almost as if that was always the intention.

Blumf

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1225560123004932098
QuoteRe-reading this old OSS sabotage manual. US intelligence has trained large numbers of people to devise ways of sabotaging outcomes without getting caught—the more banal, the better.
...
"Advocate 'caution.' Be 'reasonable' and urge your fellow-conferees to be 'reasonable' and avoid haste..."

All very "sensible".

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on February 17, 2020, 09:52:06 PM
Another 'CROBINNSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!' from #fbpe hq.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheGolem_/status/1229436798499262469

The sneerateriat below. They need to taste hardship and terror to truly appreciate the evil of their characters


Replies From View

Quote from: George Oscar Bluth II on February 16, 2020, 12:18:03 PM
The kind of shame one would feel if you were part of a political movement that excused antisemitism. That kind of shame.

Fuck off you twat.  Good grief.

Paul Calf

You know what else Corbyn failed to deal with? Whether he's a Gaylord Tied To A Tree. All it took was a yes or no response: "Are you A Gaylord Tied To A Tree, Mr Corbyn? Yes or no?"

Just a simple yes or no response to this question would have made it all go away instantly. Everyone would have been completely satisfied with the answer because they were all sincerely dedicated to the question of whether Corbyn is A Gaylord Tied To A Tree.

Amazing that the tactics of bullying people into silence don't really change from the playground to Parliament. And the same fucking idiots bleat along with it.

Zetetic


holyzombiejesus

Did anyone watch the Channel 4 debate last night? Lisa "Corbyn wasn't for the people" and "Labour didn't have a policy on buses" Nandy can go fuck herself. Not sure why left-wing types are so vehement in their criticism of Starmer but Nandy seems to have been ignored. Liked RLB dismissing talk of "corbynism" and explaining that it just meant Socialism, and was please to see it get a decent round of applause.

Saw on twitter today that Starmer's team are making thousands of calls an hour, not sure if I believe that.

Quote from: holyzombiejesus on February 18, 2020, 11:02:36 AM
Not sure why left-wing types are so vehement in their criticism of Starmer but Nandy seems to have been ignored.

Ignored seems about right. And are you really 'not sure why left-wing types are so vehement in their criticism of Starmer'? Maybe you truly haven't been paying any attention for the past few years, but this wide-eyed faux naivety from Starmer centrists is becoming rather grating.

holyzombiejesus

I was wondering about the disparity in scorn rather than Starmer receiving criticism. I class myself as a left-wing type, by the way.

NoSleep

I don't think anyone's worried about Nandy winning. Starmer seems to have convinced people who should know better that everything will be "alright"[nb]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROKXlvYMKQc[/nb] if you vote for him.