Labour Election Hustings:What Do They Know? Do They Know Things? Let's Find Out!

[Paul Calf]

The ICFI are Troyskyists.  I'm not a Trot.  I'm a democratic socialist, not a revolutionary one.  They also seem to have mistaken Corbyn for a revolutionary socialist.  He isn't.

I'd avoid them like the plague.  Everyone is right-wing to them.  Cranks & crackpots.

Yeah. Splitters.

The far right are on the verge of seizing absolute power so the left have obediently splintered to help them.

[Blumf]

RLB interview with Novara in an hour (2000h):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s8eJDaOgV0

[Buelligan]

Only if you assume the worst. RLB hasn't been very forthcoming on most things either. How exactly the selection process will work is not included in either proposal is it? Both are backing democratisation of the process and more membership involvement. I don't see how they will find way of doing the opposite of that? It's not a plan for Blairism is it. I'd give them both the benefit of the doubt until they actually do something wrong rather than try to come up with hidden motives for everything

It's not really coming up with hidden motives to say you feel uncomfortable because



<sub>Keir Starmer calls for immigration to be reduced Shadow Brexit minister's view appears to
contradict that of Jeremy Corbyn, expressed at Labour party conference

Benefit fraud could lead to 10-year jail terms, says DPP - BBC News - PM Cameron welcomes
Keir Starmer support</sub>

[Zetetic]

One might like to ask why that has been happening for 20 years, rather than just the last 3.

Perhaps starting from wealth, income and the sources of these.

[Johnny Yesno]

RLB interview with Novara in an hour (2000h):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s8eJDaOgV0

Fuck! This is great.

[Gamma Ray]

No psephologist would confuse a party's electoral results with the personal popularity of the leader.

Wait, what?

[idunnosomename]

my adjacent constit i campaigned for endorsed Nandy and also spelt Rayner's name wrong

[Johnny Yesno]

RLB interview with Novara in an hour (2000h):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s8eJDaOgV0

Yep. I'm in.

[thugler]

It's not really coming up with hidden motives to say you feel uncomfortable because

We've been over all that (basically one issue)

Why not just keep Corbyn in then if he's so popular?

[Zetetic]

RLB interview with Novara in an hour (2000h):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s8eJDaOgV0

Just to echo that this is worth watching.

[BlodwynPig]

Good stuff

[Johnny Yesno]

My instinct tells me Starmer has a better chance of forming a govt than RLB.

What does your instinct tell you after watching that interview?

[Blumf]

Just to echo that this is worth watching.

I think the only complaint is that they didn't do much (anything?) on foreign policy. Otherwise, a good interview.

Looking forward to the Burgon one on Monday.

[Johnny Yesno]

I'm happy to be a democratic socialist in a party of the left.  The last two Labour manifestos were hardly radical pamphlets - they were pretty standard European Social Democratic manifestos.  Nationalisation of the railways & utilities should be the base.  Not everyone wants want I want (more's the pity).  I'm happy to argue for what I want to see - but I'm also happy to compromise along the way.

I don't really understand your position here. I agree that those manifestos were more about saving capitalism from itself than overthrowing it, which is itself a compromise. But if we have to compromise on even that, then we're truly fucked. How far does compromise go before it becomes capitulation? Is it when we end up with Thatcher's greatest achievement?

[thugler]

RLB interview with Novara in an hour (2000h):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s8eJDaOgV0

Interesting interview. I think she comes off quite well, the questions were trying to lead her down the path of criticism of starmer but she's not really taking the bait. For all her talk about specific policy, the only thing she's very clear on is the green no deal policy, which is good news. What i think she's lacking is enough contrition or understanding over why the election was lost. I fail to see how she isn't going to have the exact same issues as Corbyn had due to her closeness to him. She even mentions that the leader has to have popularity, something she is currently far behind in. I think she needs to distance herself from Corbyn a bit more and be a bit more critical of where he went wrong rather than blaming the media, while it's true it's also not going to change. She's right to point out that the policies in the manifesto were mainly very good though.

I'm not entirely sure of what her brexit/post brexit policy is. Just proposing to go along with whatever trade deal Johnson gets/doesn't get? Though it's obviously pretty difficult to make real proposals until it's actually happened, would like to see her commit to environmental/workers/food standards to be upheld though. Vague on EEA. Pro customs union, which starmer is as well i presume.

On open selections, she pretty much seems to be saying the same as Starmer, some sort of process (unspecified) to democratise the process and not have candidates imposed. Seems no less vague than him.

If RLB is such an ideal lefty candidate why isn't she backing Burgon?

I mean obviously it's because he's shit. But it proves my point that the supposed leftmost candidate isn't always the best.

Drugs q: very vague 'we need to look at it'
Proportional representation: vague. Seems to be against it

Nice to see her answering the trans q so well.

[Buelligan]

I think she needs to distance herself from Corbyn a bit more and be a bit more critical of where he went wrong rather than blaming the media, while it's true it's also not going to change.

What, you think she needs to lie just to flag up that those opposing socialism have the upper hand? 

[Thomas]

I was listening to RLB's Novara interview on the way to work this morning. Impressive. Still got the quickfire questions to go. I listened to Dawn Butler's the other day - I found her emotive logic for voting against an Iraq investigation to be eyebrow-raisingly weak, but I liked her nuanced Board of Deputies stance.

I hope they do manage to get Sir Starmer on, even if it's just an hour of clarifying his position on Sun interviews.

[jobotic]

Thornberry on mumsnet today. Why?

[thugler]

What, you think she needs to lie just to flag up that those opposing socialism have the upper hand?

No, just accept that he lost and therefore to some extent got things wrong.

[Buelligan]

Why?  To what end?

Because it would be lying, wouldn't it, if she criticised Corbyn, was, as you suggest "more critical of where he went wrong rather than blaming the media, while it's true it's also not going to change".  It would be lying, as you say.  Who or what would that serve?

[NoSleep]

Corbyn didn't "get things wrong" that Starmer is going to "put right". The change that occurred to the Labour party because of Corbyn was from the membership endorsing Corbyn and what he stands for (not a suited nodding head).

RLB is backing Rayner, not Burgon, because she wants to lead a broad alliance but with the left leading, not sidelined and lip-serviced, as I fear will happen under Starmer.

[thugler]

Why?  To what end?

Because it would be lying, wouldn't it, if she criticised Corbyn, was, as you suggest "more critical of where he went wrong rather than blaming the media, while it's true it's also not going to change".  It would be lying, as you say.  Who or what would that serve?

Because we lost so Corbyn isn't some perfect figure beyond criticism.

[thugler]

Corbyn didn't "get things wrong" that Starmer is going to "put right". The change that occurred to the Labour party because of Corbyn was from the membership endorsing Corbyn and what he stands for (not a suited nodding head).

RLB is backing Rayner, not Burgon, because she wants to lead a broad alliance but with the left leading, not sidelined and lip-serviced, as I fear will happen under Starmer.

I didn't even mention 'starmer putting it right'. Just that she's not that willing to discuss what went wrong or be critical of him.

But Burgon is more left wing than Rayner so why wouldn't she endorse him? Could it be that he's shit?

[BlodwynPig]

Because we lost so Corbyn isn't some perfect figure beyond criticism.

Even Jesus lost

[BlodwynPig]

I didn't even mention 'starmer putting it right'. Just that she's not that willing to discuss what went wrong or be critical of him.

But Burgon is more left wing than Rayner so why wouldn't she endorse him? Could it be that he's shit?

Calm down

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Thornberry on mumsnet today. Why?

Needs advice on how to clean sick off a porous surface?

[idunnosomename]

Real concerns about toilets

[Paul Calf]

I asked them last week: 'Get Ioana to do it' was the consensus.

[NoSleep]

But Burgon is more left wing than Rayner so why wouldn't she endorse him? Could it be that he's shit?

I guess you didn't read my explanation.

[Armin Meiwes]

Kinell only got the email couple of hours ago and the hustings in London already sold out! Should have hired a bigger venue!