Topic: That Harley Quinn movie

[Goldentony]

the animation was really good and i'd watch an animated version of this pile of auld shite if it was done in that way because i've got no fucking love or social life to bother with

[Mister Six]

From a very quick search, Harley Quinn has been a villain in "Birds of Prey" on more than one occasion, and she appeared in the TV show back in the early 2000s too. Doesn't mean fans of one have to be fans of the other, but...

Peak (ie. Gail Simone) Birds of Prey was a feminist superhero comic focused on Huntress, Black Canary and Oracle, and in particular their relationships with one another (plus some recurring characters and temporary leads). Harley might have turned up as a villain here and there but she wasn't instrumental to the story, and as a wacky-wacky henchgirl she kind of occupies a different space to the BoP. It's like suggesting there should be a big crossover between Green Lantern fans and Lex Luthor fans because they're both blokes and probably appeared on the same pages at some point.

Not watched this yet (probs gonna watch it tomorrow) but it looks like they've thrown out Oracle, changed Black Canary a bunch (including actually making her black, which seems more offensive than leaving her white) and relegated her and Huntress to supporting cast members alongside Renee Montoya and Cassandra Cain (fair fucks, she subbed into the BoP comic from time to time but it looks like they've changed her again for this into some random street thief).

So even if there was a big crossover in fandom between the two, this is fundamentally not (to my eyes; maybe I'll change my opinion, I dunno) a Birds of Prey film in any meaningful way and I haven't seen BoP fans shouting from the rooftops about it on the usual places I look.

[beanheadmcginty]

I imagine the decision to make Black Canary actually black was as basic as some producer going "Well, Black Panther was popular."

[SavageHedgehog]

I know nothing about the source material, but at the end I thought a Harley vs a fully formed Birds of Prey, where they maybe team up to fight Black Mask or whomever, would have been more fun than this Harley/Birds of Prey origin hybrid movie.

[Mister Six]

Dammit, I went into this movie hopeful after the positive reviews, but it was an absolute chore to watch. I think the problem is that it was produced to order from too many incompatible parts. You can do a movie about a gritty GCPD cop who has to work with criminals to get the job done because of her sexist buddies, but she can't exist in a world where Harley Quinn can wander around supermarkets without anyone noticing[1]. You can do a movie about Harley Quinn's Very Bad, No-Good Day, but you can't keep pulling attention from her to set up four other protagonists and two antagonists. You can say that Harley is a mean baddie, but she's going to look pretty lame just hitting people with baseball bats when Huntress is shooting them in the throats with a fucking crossbow.

There's the makings here for two decent films: Harley Quinn trying to survive when the whole city is bearing down on her[2], and Birds of Prey vs Black Mask (with, perhaps, Montoya in the B-plot, tracking down Huntress). But putting them all together, adding in the sub-Deadpool meta commentary from Harley and using a convoluted nonlinear structure that adds nothing to the story has left this film overstuffed mess.[3]

The only saving graces are a handful of arresting shots, some really excellent fight scenes[4] and a roundly excellent cast[5]. Robbie does great on all fronts, as expected, but Mary Elizabeth Winstead really makes a mark as Huntress despite only getting about ten lines of dialogue. I would really have liked to see her given more time to breathe, and hope she has an opportunity to return to the role even if the chances of a sequel right now look very slim.

1.	And then steal from the supermarket, assault an employee, and walk into her secret hideout through the front door in broad daylight. Also what the fuck has Batman been doing this whole time?
2.	Funny how that stopped mattering - that one trebuchet guy aside - the moment the diamond plot kicked in, huh?
3.	Also the face-removing scene was a bit much, and was an extreme example of the film's tonal incoherence. There was an audible groan of displeasure from the  admittedly small audience when that bit happened. Just not necessary or appropriate, I think.
4.	Except, weirdly, for the climactic fun house battle, which was awkward and clumsy and looked two steps removed from a three-camera game show at some points; I'm guessing because the over-elaborate set was a total bastard to film in.
5.	Well okay, maybe the woman playing Montoya was a weak link, but she wasn't actively bad and she had a fairly thankless role.

[mjwilson]

Also what the fuck has Batman been doing this whole time?

He's between actors.

[FerriswheelBueller]

Still getting over the duffing up he got from superman

[Goldentony]

he's gonna slo mo walk out of the batman cave in slow motion to a distorted-voice post dubstep cover of feels like heaven by fiction factory, unfurl his big giant batman batarang and then because it's 2020 it'll get undercut by him standing on a dogshit, the music'll stop and his butler will go WELL IF YOU WILL INSIST ON FIGHTING CRIME RATHER THAN TRAINING HIM and Batman will look at the camera and go ECCO THE DOLPHIN HEY WHO REMEMBER THA

[thecuriousorange]

Some websites think the title has been changed, as many theatres are billing it as Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey. Closer to what people actually call it, but not as close as this thread title

[Goldentony]

birds of prey and the fantabulous waste of fucking time for titheads

[SteveDave]

the animation was really good and i'd watch an animated version of this pile of auld shite if it was done in that way because i've got no fucking love or social life to bother with

There’s a Harley Quinn animated series from last year with her from the Big Bang Theory as Harley where she splits from Joker, lives with Poison Ivy and assembles a gang. I downloaded it for my superhero obsessed son but there were 3 f’s and 2 s’s in the first minute.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Dammit, I went into this movie hopeful after the positive reviews, but it was an absolute chore to watch. I think the problem is that it was produced to order from too many incompatible parts. You can do a movie about a gritty GCPD cop who has to work with criminals to get the job done because of her sexist buddies, but she can't exist in a world where Harley Quinn can wander around supermarkets without anyone noticing[1]. You can do a movie about Harley Quinn's Very Bad, No-Good Day, but you can't keep pulling attention from her to set up four other protagonists and two antagonists. You can say that Harley is a mean baddie, but she's going to look pretty lame just hitting people with baseball bats when Huntress is shooting them in the throats with a fucking crossbow.

There's the makings here for two decent films: Harley Quinn trying to survive when the whole city is bearing down on her[2], and Birds of Prey vs Black Mask (with, perhaps, Montoya in the B-plot, tracking down Huntress). But putting them all together, adding in the sub-Deadpool meta commentary from Harley and using a convoluted nonlinear structure that adds nothing to the story has left this film overstuffed mess.[3]

The only saving graces are a handful of arresting shots, some really excellent fight scenes[4] and a roundly excellent cast[5]. Robbie does great on all fronts, as expected, but Mary Elizabeth Winstead really makes a mark as Huntress despite only getting about ten lines of dialogue. I would really have liked to see her given more time to breathe, and hope she has an opportunity to return to the role even if the chances of a sequel right now look very slim.

1.	And then steal from the supermarket, assault an employee, and walk into her secret hideout through the front door in broad daylight. Also what the fuck has Batman been doing this whole time?
2.	Funny how that stopped mattering - that one trebuchet guy aside - the moment the diamond plot kicked in, huh?
3.	Also the face-removing scene was a bit much, and was an extreme example of the film's tonal incoherence. There was an audible groan of displeasure from the  admittedly small audience when that bit happened. Just not necessary or appropriate, I think.
4.	Except, weirdly, for the climactic fun house battle, which was awkward and clumsy and looked two steps removed from a three-camera game show at some points; I'm guessing because the over-elaborate set was a total bastard to film in.
5.	Well okay, maybe the woman playing Montoya was a weak link, but she wasn't actively bad and she had a fairly thankless role.

Like you I was optimistic after the reviews and a couple of facebook friends praised it, but I thought it was all over the place and rather annoying, I only watched the first 45 minutes before deciding I'd rather spend my spare time watching something I'd actually enjoy. I thought Ewan McGregor was irritating too, I used to be a fan of the man but recently everything he does rubs me up the wrong way.

[Phil_A]

Bit boring this, to be honest. I found my attention drifting during the action scenes as they were so confusingly directed and hard to follow. As others have said it was a ludicrous idea to have this be a superhero team-up movie and a Harley solo movie at the same time.

Another big problem for me was none of the attempted humour landed at all, didn't get so much of a chuckle. The whole sandwich thing, what the fuck was that? It was embarrassing, really.

It was the least of the film's problems, but I was distracted all the way through by the fact they gave the name Cassandra Cain to some random pickpocket kid, when in the comics she has a very specific role as the second Batgirl. Then I thought well, maybe they are setting her up as a future Batgirl, but then the comics origin of Batgirl 2 is pretty much identical to Huntress's in this, which presumably means they couldn't have been intending to go down that route either. It was a bit odd.

[SteveDave]

I fell asleep about 25 minutes into it but was similarly embarrassed for everyone with the fucking sandwich thing.

[mjwilson]

Sandwich was the most relatable incident in any superhero movie.

[Mister Six]

Sandwich would have been funny if that actually was the inciting incident/dark backstory that set her on her mission of revenge. But it just got lost amongst all the other motivations and conflicts and schemes, so in the end it was just an odd, unfunny thing that took up too much screen time and then was forgotten about altogether, without even a callback later on.

Bit boring this, to be honest. I found my attention drifting during the action scenes as they were so confusingly directed and hard to follow.

Really? With the exception of the funhouse, I thought they were great - kinetic, fluid, easy to follow and creative within the very limited range available (what with nobody having proper superpowers, so it all having to be general kung-fu gubbins).

They did get quite repetitive, though - I know there's only so much you can do when you have four main characters, all of whom are basically just martial artists, but it did just boil down to a bunch of people on a flat plane kicking one another. Would have liked to see some verticality, like in the Captain America/Black Panther fight in Civil War, or some of the cool gantry fights in kung-fu series Into the Borderlands.

[machotrouts]

A friend dragged me to Suicide Squad 4 years ago, so I felt I had to see this too[1] just to wash the taste out a bit. You know that thing when you crave something to eat, but then you eat it and it's not that good, so you keep eating more things just to chase an increasingly elusive satisfying aftertaste even though you're already full and just sunk cost fallacying yourself into getting fatter and fatter and you're probably a serious problem eater and need to do something about it? Well it's like that.

I quite liked it actually. Solid crunchy action. Feel baffled and alienated by the bland CGI megaspectacle of the few other superhero films I've seen, so it's nice to scale it back and just see some ladies duff up men with baseball bats for a bit. I can invest in that. Don't know if I actually like Harley Quinn. Seems like she'd be a nightmare to be mates with. She's always so on. Exhausting. She'd be a good lower-case shitpost Bernie Bro Twitter mutual though.

1.	like two weeks ago, get off my case social distancing freaks

[Mister Six]

Incredibly, until this film stumbled at the cinema they had plans to do a "Harley Quinn and the Gotham Sirens" movie. Basically, this thing again but with villains[1] instead of anti-heroes. Movie execs really have no clue at all, do they?

1.	Catwoman, Harley and Poison Ivy in the comic.

[FerriswheelBueller]

Whenever I read “Harley Quinn” my mind immediately adds “Medicine Woman”

[Famous Mortimer]

Sandwich would have been funny if that actually was the inciting incident/dark backstory that set her on her mission of revenge. But it just got lost amongst all the other motivations and conflicts and schemes, so in the end it was just an odd, unfunny thing that took up too much screen time and then was forgotten about altogether, without even a callback later on.

You may have walked out by that point, but the sandwich featured in the final scene of the movie.

I enjoyed it, I suppose, but there was just too much stuff in it. Too many sort-of gags, too much motivation, too many characters. One example of a superpower, out of nowhere. I wonder if they'd had both a new Harley Quinn and a new Birds of Prey movie in development, but just decided to staple them together at the last minute?

[phantom_power]

I agree with your summation. It was fun and watchable and loads better than all the other DCU films bar Shazam, but I am not sure it was particularly well made or if I would want to see another one. I think the charisma of the leads (Winstead, McGregor, Robbie) helped make it seem better than it is

[Glebe]

I thought chunks of it were entertaining but it just didn't work overall. Tone was a bit weird too, with wacky fun bits alongside some surprisingly nasty scenes.

[Mister Six]

You may have walked out by that point, but the sandwich featured in the final scene of the movie.

Is that when they're all at the café at the end? I can't remember.

I enjoyed it, I suppose, but there was just too much stuff in it. Too many sort-of gags, too much motivation, too many characters. One example of a superpower, out of nowhere. I wonder if they'd had both a new Harley Quinn and a new Birds of Prey movie in development, but just decided to staple them together at the last minute?

The superpower is in the comics, but yeah that wasn't really established properly in the film despite Harley's desperate attempt to justify it in VO afterwards. Again that feels like something that was lost during endless revisions, or the merging to two separate films - like Black Canary's supposed to be reticent to use her superpower because her mum was a superhero and got killed... which there are fragments of, but there's just not enough room for it to be a proper subplot/character arc.

[purlieu]

Still, that Harley Quinn's a bit fit, eh lads?

[Famous Mortimer]

Is that when they're all at the café at the end? I can't remember.

Just afterwards, when Harley and the young pickpocket lass are driving off at the end. She's bought Harley one of the sandwiches and you see a slightly-too-close close-up of her eating the sandwich before we go to credits.

[Mister Six]

Ah, right. Not much of a payoff though, especially as the sandwich hasn't been glimpsed for about an hour and a half.

Ah sod it, I shouldn't be this down on it. I just wish DC would get its shit together. Shazam felt like that was finally happening...

[Goldentony]

it's a big expensive film made by cunts mate, be as down as you want, they wont hear you and most importantly it was also fucking shit

[Mister Six]

YEAH!!!

[H-O-W-L]

Should've been a Gotham City Sirens movie with Harley, Ivy, and Catwoman. That would've been pretty good and had market value. Who the fuck knows who the Birds of Prey are except fucking nerds like me? You're not going to get random cunts go see that movie.

[Mister Six]

Well, who knew who Iron Man, Thor or the Guardians of the Galaxy were before their films? Or Harley Quinn, for that matter. The difference is that Marvel graced all their characters with good-to-great films made by well-chosen writers and directors, and made us care about what was going on, while DC largely shits out middling-to-awful gubbins made by filmmakers seemingly selected at random and seems to assume that audiences will come regardless.

This thread set me off thinking about the film again, and I reckon this could have worked if they'd cut out Montoya and the GCPD altogether. This is a film about supervillains and anti-heroes, so work with that.

Have Harley flee with the girl into The Cauldron, the part of Gotham so shit that the police have given up on it and even Batman doesn't go in there much. Give Huntress the secondary goal of getting the diamond back to reclaim her family's wealth, so she has a reason to come into conflict with Harley and meet her more than 15 minutes before the film ends.

Bulk up Black Canary's arc so she accepts the mantle of superhero after previously rejecting it due to her dead mum, and have her race into the Cauldron with some vital information about Roman and his men.

You can even continue the "everyone hates Harley" thing past the first act because The Cauldron is absolutely full of criminal types.

This way there's at least a consistent theme and tone, a building sense of tension and scale, and you don't have to worry about why the GCPD aren't arresting Harley for wandering about committing petty crimes in broad daylight.