Why does everyone hate The Clash?

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

In the recent 'I admit, I don't like' thread I noticed there was a surprising (for me) amount of people saying they hated The Clash and this interested me as I'm quite a big fan and thought it deserved a thread of it's own. For the people who mentioned the Clash in that thread, what specific reasons do you have for hating them? All of the negative comments seemed to include some kind of reference to their politics, so I was wondering firstly what you didn't like about that side of them and secondly if you like the non-political stuff or if you ignore the lyrics can you like the music? Songs like Train in Vain, Wrong 'em Boyo or City of the Dead  are completely devoid of any politics and generally are just absolutely brilliant songs. Train in Vain is one of the best songs ever written, and I just can't understand why anyone would let the fact that they disagree with the bands politics or whatever get in the way of their enjoyment of songs like this. There are so many great tunes written by the Clash, London Calling deserves all the acclaim it has recieved - Rudie Can't Fail, Wrong 'em Boyo, Koka Kola, Hateful, Clampdown... All the tracks on that LP are great and it sounds like a different band from the first two albums - there's hardly any politics at all and the sound is just completely different. Even though I love them myself, I can see why someone might not like the first two albums if you aren't really into 70s style punk but why don't you like London Calling? My brother doesn't like Strummer's voice, is that a major reason why their music isn't liked so much here? Does the amount of influence they have had on music mean anything? It took me a while to get into the Clash, originally I liked the Pistols and just thought The Clash were a rubbish imitation but once I gave a the self titled and London Calling LPs a few listens I understood why they were so popular. Sorry, this post is terribly written, it's late and I'm rambling. Basically I was just wondering why those people had such a dislike for them, and also why they seemed to be quite angry about it. Didn't someone call them hectoring? Could they expand on that? (I don't mean that in a nasty way, I don't want this thread to descend into some kind of childish exchange of insults or anything).

[Frinky]

6 votes and no replies?

COWARDS, the lot of ya'.

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

Heh, well at least I got one reply. This has probably been the most successful thread I've ever made.

[Frinky]

You would have thought especially, after how offended some people were by the Clash's existence (going by the aforementioned thread), that you'd get some kind of responce here.

Nothing to add of my own, though, I agree with everything you said. Cos I have taste, and I know what I'm talking about. Unlike the silent wazzocks who didn't post here.

[The Mumbler]

I quite like some of their stuff.  Train In Vain, The Magnificent Seven, London Calling.  And I was playing the first Big Audio Dynamite LP earlier today - which I prefer if I'm being honest.  But their general image gives me the same sort of discomfort as The Jam - I just get an indelible picture in my head of Phill Jupitus dancing on Later With Jools Holland.  I think it's the blokey, Greatest Living Englishmen in Loaded bollocks that grate, which is not necessarily their fault, but Joe Strummer's ridiculous 14-year old political vision undoubtedly was (I still remember his "Class War: rob a rich person" rant on Channel 4's Network 7 - what, Joe, like your parents?).  And their pretend maverick stance (signing to CBS at the drop of a fucking hat, that Levis ad) often looks so laughable.    

In short: The Clash, almost as good as The Damned (who are really underrated, I reckon, and made just as many great singles), not nearly as good as Buzzcocks, and not nearly as innovative or challenging in that era as either The Specials or Madness.

[Saturday Boy]

Ach, the reason I didn't post to this thread, as a Clash-lover who hates lots of things about The Clash, is because any offended person could've started a post sparked by the other one.

Why does everyone hate Sex Pistols/The Beatles/The Libertines?

It was a sacred cow thread. If most people weren't upset with your choices for it, then you weren't doing your job!

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

Yeah, around the first album the politics were a little bit silly admitidly. The whole 'creative violence' thing was, as Marcus Gray described in his biography of them, 'unbelievably stupid'. Although Strummer was against the Levis thing I think, it was Jones that agreed to it if I remember correctly. And I'm not really sure you can call them 'sellouts' or whatever for the whole CBS thing. They didn't have to change anything to keep the record company satisfied - they had complete creative control. And as they argued, you could put your records out on a small label and not many people would hear it or you could use a bigger label and get 'the message' out to a much larger audience. Anyway, the band had little to do with the deal, Bernie Rhodes organised it all. The band were great to their fans, trying not to put the singles on albums, making sure the prices were low. You can criticise Strummer for his politics but he should be applauded for doing things like making sure that Sandinista and London Calling both cost the same as a single album, and making sure show tickets were cheap. If you ignore all of that though and just listen to the records, about 99% of the tracks on the first three albums are absolutely great and anything but 'tuneless'. And they were innovative and challenging - they evolved over their career like no other punk band. They experimented in Sandinista and generally made some great songs in a variety of genres, after hearing a track like Career Opoturnities you would never imagine the same band would go on to come up with Rock the Casbah (which has my favourite bass line of all time), Should I Stay or Should I Go, or Something about England.

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

Ach, the reason I didn't post to this thread, as a Clash-lover who hates lots of things about The Clash, is because any offended person could've started a post sparked by the other one.

Why does everyone hate Sex Pistols/The Beatles/The Libertines?

It was a sacred cow thread. If most people weren't upset with your choices for it, then you weren't doing your job!

I know what you mean and I understand the concept of the thread perfectly, I was just shocked by the amount of anger being directed at The Clash and thought it warranted further discussion. I understood most of the reasons for the other bands inclusion in that thread (not that I agreed with many of them), but I was confused by why people selected the Clash, and why the level of hatred was so high. It's not that I'm a massive Clash fan who is offended by other people not liking them either, I like loads of other bands a lot more, for example the Beatles who featured much more heavily in that thread. I just felt that this specific topic could be talked about as it was the most interesting (to me anyway) feature of that thread.

[Hoogstraten'sSmilingUlcer]

The Clash are great, but I don't particularly like their politics. They're a good band and to me their politics don't really matter, even though some of their songs are political. As my father would say, they can bash out a good tune, and all the superfluous political stuff shouldn't come into judging their music.

The Mumbler:

I think it's the blokey, Greatest Living Englishmen in Loaded bollocks that grate

Good point. I find that too with the Pistols who get deified by people like Garry Bushell and middle-aged, Essex-dwelling 'punks,' and it puts me off slightly. It's the same when people solely like The Clash because of their politics and rate them as great working class heroes, yet they're not really listening to the music, they're just emersing themselves in the image. Worst of all is when Peter Hitchens tells you how much he adores Frank Zappa; that really puts you off.

[Borboski]

Worst of all is when Peter Hitchens tells you how much he adores Frank Zappa; that really puts you off.

No no no for the sweet love of god no....

[The Man With Brass Eyes]

Personally I think the Clash are fantastic.  I've only recently got into them, bought the new release of London Calling last year sometime and think it's just superb.  I wasn't aware that so many(!) people don't like them.  (though Steve Albini thinks they're a poor band).
Regarding the politics, they fit into the whole "punk" ideology but I don't get why it's such a hotbed for those that don't like them.

As a set of songs go (bar say Nevermind the Bollocks) it's difficult to beat LC.  It's heart warming.  and it's brilliant value for money seeing as there's 19 songs on there.
I'm putting it on now.

[Ciarán2]

Crass were more interesting politically than The Clash, but they weren't hip. I quite like The Clash, mind.

[dan dirty ape]

'London Calling' is one of my favourite albums due to its consistency, scope of ambition and sheer zeal. And as uneven as 'Sandinista!' undoubtedly is, it's one of those albums that's more than the sum of its parts. It's a carnival of ideas, some of which stick, some of which fall flat, but on the whole I think it's a beautiful experiment and an ideal testament to Strummer's restless enthusiasm.

To anyone who says they're tuneless I urge them to listen to 'The Card Cheat', 'Lost In The Supermarket' and 'Broadway'.

And, come on, the bassline to 'Guns Of Brixton'! And people say that Simonon was clueless....

[phes]

My housemate went down the pub to meet a friend for a beer. His mate turned up with Paul Simonon.

That's all.

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

My housemate went down the pub to meet a friend for a beer. His mate turned up with Paul Simonon.

That's all.

No it's not, tell us more! I love it when people post things like this, like the person who said he drank tea in his kitchen with Dee Dee Ramone, it makes me all excited for some reason. Have you ever met him then? (Simonon, not Ramone).

[phes]

No really, that's all.  I don't think that he realised who he was until his friend told him. He just said that he seemed like a nice guy.  I think he was living in Bristol at the time.

Sorry to disappoint.

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

Hah, don't worry, you haven't disappointed, I just like little stories which involve famous people unexpectedly turning up in places. For example, one of my Mum's friends was on holiday and was sitting enjoying some wine looking at the scenary  from a balcony in some posh restaurant. He said something like 'lovely day isn't it' to the scruffy looking person next to him who he had only glanced at, exchanged a few pleasantries with him before turning round to find out he was talking to Bob fucking Dylan. I'd love something like that to happen to me.

[The Man With Brass Eyes]

My friend's mother once dated Davy Jones from the Monkees.

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

The dad of a girl who was in my brothers year at school punched one of the Monkees in the face.

[Labian Quest]

The dad of a girl who was in my brothers year at school punched one of the Monkees in the face.

No way! can I have your autograph?

OT: anyone that think's the Clash are rubbish should go and listen to 'White man in Hammersmith Palais'. Some of the later studio albums do get a bit self-indulgent, so I would recommend anyone that wants to check them out to buy 'The Essential Clash' (CD double album with very few duff tracks on it and quite a few great singles that didn't appear on any of the studio albums)

[Charlie Potatoes]

Worst of all is when Peter Hitchens tells you how much he adores Frank Zappa; that really puts you off.

No no no for the sweet love of god no....

Ha! I my thought's exactly...

[Frinky]

Train in Vain is one of the best songs ever written

This has been in my head for weeks now and it just won't get out. If I'm not careful, I can leave this song on repeat for an hour quite happily.

Yes, it is a perfect song.

[MonkeyDrummer]

For 13 years the only Clash material I had was the Train in Vain EP. I then went on to download the discography recently, but I still just listen to Train in Vain.

[trotsky assortment]

Train in Vain is one of the best songs ever written

This has been in my head for weeks now and it just won't get out. If I'm not careful, I can leave this song on repeat for an hour quite happily.

Yes, it is a perfect song.

I rather like 'Lost In The Supermarket' myself.  There's just something magical about the way it shuffles along.

[col]

I used to like them, but listening back on their music - it just sounds a bit drab,

Clampdown used to be one of my favourite songs - but i heard it on the radio the other day and it just sounded really flacid.

still love rock the casbah though.

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

Train in Vain is one of the best songs ever written

This has been in my head for weeks now and it just won't get out. If I'm not careful, I can leave this song on repeat for an hour quite happily.

Yes, it is a perfect song.

Brilliant innit. Fun to play along to as well, my favourite bit is the 'but you don't understand my point of view, I suppose there's nothing I can do-oo-oo'. It really is perfection, from the drum opening to the harmonica in the background. The complete opposite of 'tuneless', and the reason I started this thread. That song alone shows you that the Clash were a lot more than a bunch of pseudo-intellectual arses, they were a band that wrote some absolutely superb songs. You can go on about how 'punk died the day the Clash signed to CBS' as much as you like but who gives a shit about that now we know they went on to make London Calling.

[slim]

I really like the Clash. I've been overplaying Super Black Market Clash and The Story Of The Clash on my mp3 player of late.

Does anyone else think The Dead 60s want to be them? Sorry if I'm miles behind everyone else in this kind of discussion, but I tend not to be on the cusp of things musically. You cunts. :)


Edit: Some Essexisms removed. Gosh.

[m...wW(wwMww)Ww...m]

It's because The Clash murdered my parents.

[jimmy jazz]

The Magnificent Seven, people. One of the most fun songs ever. Some rhyming that should make Franz hang their heads in shame.

Karlo Marx and Friedrich Engels went to get chicken at the 7-11
Marx was skint, but he had sense, Engels lent him the necessary pence

Makes "party" and "arty" look positively shameful

[Joy Nktonga]

While I was driving the ex Ms.Nktonga to the train station yesterday London calling came on the radio. "This is the Kaiser Chiefs isn't it, " she said.

"No, it's not," I replied.

"Oh. It's someone like that though isn't it?" she asked.

"No" says I.

"Razorlight or something like that."

"No. It's The Clash."

Proof that not only do some folk not like them but some people don't even recognise them when they hear them. [/pointless post]