Author Topic: The Godfather Part III  (Read 2898 times)

Blinder Data

  • Use your library
The Godfather Part III
« on: February 11, 2020, 01:13:57 PM »
I watched this for the first time on Sunday. After hearing for ages about how it ruins the series - you know what, it wasn't bad.

I feel sorry for Sofia Coppola. She certainly is not very good in the role, but then the part is totally underwritten so her lack of charisma and expression is actually revealing of wider artistic failure. The opprobrium heaped on her by critics is totally unfair when the film's primary failings are its script, both in terms of the dialogue, which is seriously poor, and storyline, which is threadbare and did not merit its long running time.

Is this the beginning of sequels trading on past glories? It didn't build on anything of the previous two and kept referring to them directly as if it was unsure of its own standing, like its key sequences being straight homages. You can see where JJ Abrams got his inspiration for how to do to the Star Trek and Star Wars films.

There were some lovely shots, like the wide one at the end of the steps of the theatre, and though the plot is about as complicated as a one-hour Sunday night crime drama, I was never bored. And Pacino is really good in this, subtle with explosive moments like the diabetic attack and the confession, not at all the 'hoo-hah' caricature I was expecting. You miss Duvall obviously but considering the film rests entirely on Pacino's shoulders, he carries it admirably.

Godfather Part III - not bad at all.

What say you?

Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2020, 01:15:12 PM »
The film really needed Duvall in it, but yeah it's fine.

Jerzy Bondov

  • best not bother
    • righto so ive got five minutes off work and uh yeah im gonna have a cheeky volvic
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2020, 01:18:17 PM »
I like old movies like Godfather 3. It's not considered the best one, but that's just me.

Shit Good Nose

  • Several bags of balls
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2020, 02:19:38 PM »
I've always said (and you will find me saying it in numerous threads on here over the years) - taken alone, Godfather III is a brilliant American gangster film.  Its main problem is that its preceded by two bona fide five alarm masterpieces.

Having said that, I DO think the criticism heaped on Sofia Coppola is fair in the sense that she is absolutely toe curlingly dreadful in it, but I'll equally acknowledge that most of the blame needs to go FFC's way as he's the one that gave her the role.  NO ONE else was available Francis?  You couldn't get a single professional actress on short notice for one of the most highly anticipated films of the decade?  Really??

I also totally agree with bgmnts that there is a very noticeable Duvall shaped hole, but I think George Hamilton is absolutely fine in it.

As it is, everyone assumes it to have been received as a critical disaster and a box office bomb, neither of which is true, and these days its generally and rightly highly regarded.

thenoise

  • Golden Member
  • *****
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2020, 02:29:28 PM »
I watched the Godfather III first, years before the other two. It's probably the best way the appreciate it.

Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2020, 02:49:18 PM »
It's awful, I wish it didn't exist, the first two are diminished by it.

It isn't just through Duvall's absence that the film suffers.  His being replaced by George Hamilton of all people gives the project a tacky, trashy feel, like a Mafia version of Dynasty.

And I couldn't understand why Coppola and Puzo would include real-life elements, such as the deaths of Calvi and Pope John Paul I, yet fictionalize the circumstances so much that they may as well have not bothered.

But the great benefit of Sofia Coppola's performance is that it makes you realise acting isn't as easy as it looks.

Sin Agog

  • Dogs fucked the pope; no fault of mine
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2020, 03:13:35 PM »
I can sort of appreciate Sofia Coppola's performance in the same way I can appreciate The Shaggs.

Coppola clearly wanted to turn the movie into the equivalent of one his extended family pasta meals (seem to recall his mama showing up in the puppet show scene with Pacino and Keaton).   Taken in that context, there are a fair few nice hang-out scenes with the characters aside from some of the papal mumbo-jumbo.  I said it in the last thread, but fucking hell everyone was so cold and dead-eyed in Godfather Part 2.  It was nice to see a little life and humanity in Michael Corleone again.  There's also some meta shit with the opera and the aforementioned Punchinello and...Judy show being like mini versions of the movie's themes.

Shit Good Nose

  • Several bags of balls
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2020, 03:22:13 PM »
I do remember you saying that.

Sin Agog

  • Dogs fucked the pope; no fault of mine
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2020, 03:32:05 PM »
I'm a repetitive fucker, I know.

Sin Agog

  • Dogs fucked the pope; no fault of mine
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2020, 03:32:57 PM »
I'm a repetitive fucker, I know.

Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2020, 03:47:44 PM »
It's not helped by the fact that to a non-Catholic viewer it is unclear why Mary and Vincent's relationship is so anathema that it even convinced Don Altobello that Vincent would betray his uncle. I know why now, but at the time it struck me as confusing, particularly as European royalty did it for centuries.

But then there's so much confusion in this movie - what's with the guy who can impersonate a donkey so well that it drives his father into a towering rage ? How did Connie poison the pastries but eat one herself to no ill effect ? What sort of hitman misses his target from three feet away then gets shot down like a chump ? How does everyone know Vincent is Sonny's bastardo and why does Michael hand over power to this idiot ? He can't pull off a successful whack job either. Well, he kinda does but only after kicking off a full scale panic in the streets.

They reference Fredo's death every so often but everyone seems to accept that he drowned. Al Neri is standing right there, twenty years on no one doubts his story ?

Sure many of those things have an offscreen explanation, probably, but in a three hour long movie you have the time to mull some things over. They dont, because they want to film the pasta based seduction scene, a whole lotta nothing with Connie and Michael because you have to get Diane Keaton in there somehow and she's not going to do a cheap cameo any more than Duvall was, and attempted assassination by helicopter gunships.

Daft script rushed into production to get the film out in time for Oscar season. It isn't a bad film, but nor is it a good one. They should have ponied up the cash for Robert Duvall and gone with the original idea of the internal feud. At least it would have been interesting to see.

Bad Ambassador

  • Sit down, Mario!
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2020, 04:21:41 PM »
I prefer it to II.

COME ON THEN

thecuriousorange

  • WELCOME THRILLHOU
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2020, 08:07:59 PM »
Better than Terminator 3, worse that Rocky 3.

Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2020, 08:24:15 PM »
It's awful. Coppolla had lost it. The Joey Zaza assassination is overblown nonsense, but nothing compares to when it turns into Die Hard with the helicopter gunship attack.

chveik

  • JAZZ SNOB EAT SHIT
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2020, 08:37:23 PM »
it's not a patch on The Yakuza Papers 3. I agree with the OP that all the critics towards Sofia Coppola are unfair, it seems like it's always the first thing that comes up. then again, I don't care much for the godfathers films, they're so fucking dull, I'd rather watch Peggy Sue Got Married. I reckon Coppola didn't really give a fuck about this one.

Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2020, 01:35:03 PM »
I think what kills the movie for me the most (aside from it being boring as hell as looking like a cheap TV movie) is that the Michael in it bears no resemblances whatsoever to the Michael of the first 2 films. Pacino is in his croaky voice/'Hoo Ha' phase where he's pretty much playing Pacino and doesn't even sound or act like himself in the 1970s. He smiles and jokes way too much in this film also which doesn't exactly seem like the behaviour of a man carrying the huge weight of the horrible shit he's done.

Sin Agog

  • Dogs fucked the pope; no fault of mine
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2020, 01:44:28 PM »
I think what kills the movie for me the most (aside from it being boring as hell as looking like a cheap TV movie) is that the Michael in it bears no resemblances whatsoever to the Michael of the first 2 films. Pacino is in his croaky voice/'Hoo Ha' phase where he's pretty much playing Pacino and doesn't even sound or act like himself in the 1970s. He smiles and jokes way too much in this film also which doesn't exactly seem like the behaviour of a man carrying the huge weight of the horrible shit he's done.

Pacino himself seems to have undergone that personality overhaul.  I remember seeing an interview with him around the time of that Panic at Needle Park movie, and he was mousy and shy with a little bit of the brood about him.  I guess he tried to come out of his shell a little on Scarecrow from around that era, but he still struck you as an ultimately quiet dude.  Then a decade or two later he suddenly became this avuncular loud grandfather.  When you look at videos of real-life psychopath leaders like Idi Amin's Autoportrait and The Act of Killing, being likable and gregarious is often a survival mechanism they employ to mask themselves from the things they've done.  I get what you mean, though, and I am likely reaching a lot.  I feel like Pacino in this movie filled in the Marlon Brando-shaped void that Godfather 2 lacked.  The rat-like, emotionless deliberator portrayed by De Niro somehow growing up into Brando's heart-on-his-sleeve Don is just as big a stretch.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

  • In France we call it le bellend
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2020, 04:38:51 PM »
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

Shit Good Nose

  • Several bags of balls
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2020, 06:16:58 PM »
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

(does Kilroy share or shaft hand action)

Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2020, 11:30:43 AM »
Pacino himself seems to have undergone that personality overhaul.  I remember seeing an interview with him around the time of that Panic at Needle Park movie, and he was mousy and shy with a little bit of the brood about him.  I guess he tried to come out of his shell a little on Scarecrow from around that era, but he still struck you as an ultimately quiet dude.

There was a weird hole in Pacino's career in the 1980s after Scarface and Revolution. I'm not sure if it was the effort in trying to make a film about the American Revolution (that everybody then confused for Reds anyhow), or proximity to all that cocaine, but he took a few years off and returned as the shouty asshole he's been playing for the last 30 years. In fairness, Cruising may have had something to do with his personality transplant too. His 80s were weird.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

  • In France we call it le bellend
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2020, 11:35:34 AM »
I watched Revolution for the first time quite recently, because it kept getting repeated on Moviemax or something, so eventually I capitulated. It was the first outing of his Cockernee accent which he later perfected in The Local Stigmatic.

Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2020, 03:19:44 PM »
There was a weird hole in Pacino's career in the 1980s after Scarface and Revolution. I'm not sure if it was the effort in trying to make a film about the American Revolution (that everybody then confused for Reds anyhow), or proximity to all that cocaine, but he took a few years off and returned as the shouty asshole he's been playing for the last 30 years. In fairness, Cruising may have had something to do with his personality transplant too. His 80s were weird.

Yeah: Sea of Love come out in '89 and it was promoted as a comeback, like he had been away for decades.

Shit Good Nose

  • Several bags of balls
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2020, 04:28:49 PM »
I watched Revolution for the first time quite recently, because it kept getting repeated on Moviemax or something, so eventually I capitulated. It was the first outing of his Cockernee accent which he later perfected in The Local Stigmatic.

Best thing about Revolution, aside from that note perfect accent of course, is all the double glazing clearly seen in a lot of the buildings in the background.

Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2020, 11:54:14 AM »
There was a weird hole in Pacino's career in the 1980s after Scarface and Revolution. I'm not sure if it was the effort in trying to make a film about the American Revolution (that everybody then confused for Reds anyhow), or proximity to all that cocaine, but he took a few years off and returned as the shouty asshole he's been playing for the last 30 years. In fairness, Cruising may have had something to do with his personality transplant too. His 80s were weird.

Revolution was such a critical mauling that he just took the time off, iirc. Think he did mostly theatre.

Anyway, Revolution is OK. It's Sid Owen's finest role on celluloid.

Also, mole.


Elderly Sumo Prophecy

  • In France we call it le bellend
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2020, 12:39:52 PM »
The entire film was weird, accent wise. Pacino trying to do early colonies era English, Sid Owen doing generic American, and Donald doing some crazy Yorkshire thing. Also, I'm sure I spotted Annie Lennox at the start.

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. To the American War of Independence. In 1776.

Shit Good Nose

  • Several bags of balls
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2020, 05:16:41 PM »
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. To the American War of Independence. In 1776. In 1985.

Bad Ambassador

  • Sit down, Mario!
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2020, 05:25:31 PM »
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. To the American War of Independence. In 1776. In 1985. In England.

kalowski

  • the Zone of Zero Funkativity
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2020, 10:39:34 PM »
Pacino himself seems to have undergone that personality overhaul.  I remember seeing an interview with him around the time of that Panic at Needle Park movie, and he was mousy and shy with a little bit of the brood about him.  I guess he tried to come out of his shell a little on Scarecrow from around that era, but he still struck you as an ultimately quiet dude.  Then a decade or two later he suddenly became this avuncular loud grandfather.  When you look at videos of real-life psychopath leaders like Idi Amin's Autoportrait and The Act of Killing, being likable and gregarious is often a survival mechanism they employ to mask themselves from the things they've done.  I get what you mean, though, and I am likely reaching a lot.  I feel like Pacino in this movie filled in the Marlon Brando-shaped void that Godfather 2 lacked.  The rat-like, emotionless deliberator portrayed by De Niro somehow growing up into Brando's heart-on-his-sleeve Don is just as big a stretch.
Interesting point. I wonder when the transformation took place.
I don't remember him overacting in Sea of Love (1989) but Scent of a Woman (1992) was ΓΌber Al. Although I did enjoy Glengarry Glen Ross which was the same year. Following that, it's "Hoo Ha" all the way down, even if I could happily enjoy Carlito's Way (1993) and Donnie Brasco (1997).

Shit Good Nose

  • Several bags of balls
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2020, 10:52:43 PM »
Here's Titus Welliver on the Kevin Pollak show going along a similar line with Pacino through the ages - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S85ZEtbx2VQ

Chollis

  • Master of Codes
Re: The Godfather Part III
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2020, 01:19:05 PM »
It's absolute wank. I couldn't even finish it when I tried to re-watch recently because it was just RUINING GODFATHER

Tags: