US Elections 2020 II - Bernie Topwin: "We'll see this trashcan dream come true"

[rjd2]

No chance, in my opinion

the donor's will want a return to the supposed good old days of conservatism so having someone like Tucker hammer the likes of Hailey, Crenshaw, etc about their obsession with zombie reganism will be to much for them.

I am assuming the GOP will lose the senate and presidency, yeah Biden is crap, but any Democrat in this moment would win easily in November.

[Dog Botherer]

Tucker is insanely popular, more so than O'Reilly when he got canned, he'd have to do something insanely heinous to get turfed out.

[bgmnts]

https://aje.io/f92pv

They backed down on this piece of shit policy, thankfully.

[rjd2]

Tucker is insanely popular, more so than O'Reilly when he got canned, he'd have to do something insanely heinous to get turfed out.

Surely constantly slagging of the "free market" would qualify?

[gmoney]

I can't believe Kanye's dropped out. I just did not see this coming.

[Dewt]

I swear that the Trump campaign is trying to get Biden elected and the Biden campaign is trying to lose. Is this like the Father Ted Eurovision episode?

[Dewt]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/507928-biden-warns-of-russian-election-interference-after-receiving-intelligence

I cannot vote for this.

[ajsmith2]

Good to know that Biden has received some intelligence though. Hoping he mind melded with Chomsky.

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

Pretty clear at this point that Trump needs to be voted out of office, regardless of who is running against him.

[C_Larence]

Just seen that Biden's slogan for his jobs plan is "Build Back Better". Playing with fire there. I give it a month until he blurts out "Be Black Better".

[Dewt]

Pretty clear at this point that Trump needs to be voted out of office, regardless of who is running against him.

I am begging you to learn to think more than one move ahead

The world is burning and Biden's setting up the pins for a xenophobic cold war.

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

I am begging you to learn to think more than one move ahead

The world is burning and Biden's setting up the pins for a xenophobic cold war.

As opposed to Donald Trump, who certainly is not in the middle of an actual xenophobic cold war. Would be nice to be able protest the xenophobic cold war without being hauled into an unmarked van by a right-wing paramilitary gestapo. That seems like a helpful starting point.

[Dewt]

Oh you're the "the police state came into existence with Trump and the man who wrote the crime bill will stop it" kind of idiot

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

Oh you're the "the police state came into existence with Trump and the man who wrote the crime bill will stop it" kind of idiot

Part of actually engaging with politics is the ability to discern between different degrees of bad things.

[Dewt]

Maybe one of the leading architects of today's problems who is able to successfully market himself as a left-wing figure to a population of absolute dopes so that he can operate under the cover of respectability is a remarkably bad thing.

It's a waste of time discussing it with you because you are taken in by this shit.



Biden is signalling a racist war before he's even in office.

What do you propose is the timeline for things to get better if Biden wins? What happens, how do we end up with a good administration and when will it happen? What series of events?

[greenman]

The biggest worry is that we could see an even more senile Biden running in 4 years time  in a post Covid downturn against any even nastier successor to Trump.

[Mister Six]

Biden's not going to make it through four years. He'll get over the hump of year 2 (if that) and step down in favour of his VP.

[BlodwynPig]

He'll be assassinated in year 1

[Old Nehamkin]

Wildcard prediction: Trump loses, then pulls a Grover Cleveland and gets elected again in '24.

[The Culture Bunker]

Wildcard prediction: Trump loses, then pulls a Grover Cleveland and gets elected again in '24.

I'd certainly except a Trump to be in the running, but I think the current chief will have been sent out to pasture by then, used only as a weapon to rile up his old support on behalf of his spawn.

[peanutbutter]

Wildcard prediction: Trump loses, then pulls a Grover Cleveland and gets elected again in '24.

Holding the GOP to ransom for 4 years by telling a huge chunk of their base (now his base) that he's gonna run again would probably be quite effective.

I doubt he'll do it though, cos it'd mean acknowledging in some manner that Biden's win was legitimate.
Still not sure how they get him out of the white house willingly tbh; he'll insist on being given some new title or something at the very least, surely?

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

What do you propose is the timeline for things to get better if Biden wins? What happens, how do we end up with a good administration and when will it happen? What series of events?

There's not going to be a "good administration" in charge of the United States anytime soon. Progressive change has to happen outside the delusional framework of wishing for a magic President who will fix everything.

In terms of electoral politics, which is so irrevocably fucked that it necessarily must be a small part of advocating for progressive change, the most promising horizon in the next few years is to elect more and more progressive members of Congress. In order to do that, and given the TWO options on offer, it is critical to have a lesser-of-two-evils presidential administration that somewhat staunches the bleeding by not further decimating voting rights, by not stacking the federal judiciary with fascist lunatics, by not slipping further toward the creation of an outright federal right-wing paramilitary to enforce the whims of the Republican Party and to stop any form of public protest, etc.

There, I've offered a very brief answer to the question. What series of events do you envision in which Donald Trump being president for another four years helps things?

[Dewt]

Progressive change has to happen outside the delusional framework of wishing for a magic President who will fix everything.

You can't patronise people from your position.

You just can't grasp how it is the Democrat's primary job to block the left. Presidential-politics or local politics, them being in power and being able to give the impression that they are a competent ruling body limits progression at any level. What the hell do you think informs power structures downstream? You think state senators are independent of all of this? Or do you think it's the fucking PTA that's going to dismantle global neoliberalism?

Your best plan is to go for another cycle of the same wave that has been repeating for the last 40 years, trying to shame other people for not willingly walking into slaughter. There isn't time to entertain people like you condescendingly talking about lesser of two evils and being all "it's just common sense and also I'm a sensible adult who understands politics at all levels ahhhh oooh Supreme Court ahhhh". You haven't grasped why Trump happened and you can't see the staggeringly-obvious pattern laid out bare for you. The slide into corporate rule is not going to slow down under Biden and the "second best this time around!" strategy doesn't work. There clearly needs to be a shakeup, it clearly keeps very almost happening and you seem to think your role is to dampen it with beige clucking.

There isn't going to be good honest chipping away at the coalface work being done while Biden is in power. There will be no progress. It has never worked this way and it is not going to magically start happening. There is no scenario for things getting better that doesn't involve disgracing the establishment wing of the Democrats. Maybe that can happen with Biden in power but it's going to have to involve you not pestering people for being negative about fucking racist rapist dipshit.

I get it, Trump is igniting fascism. That's obviously true. But he's just fanning the flames of what was always there. You just want somebody to do it politely and pretend not to like it, while they're busy being as hawkish as possible.

The likes of Biden will win over and over again while the media can successfully hold its current tone because enough people don't recognise what a cunt he is. One of the most important things we can do is demolish the reputation of everybody in his gang until it's no longer profitable to publish anything in his favour.


It is going to take some very strong actions to fix this. The riots have demonstrated that changes are made when people who benefit from systematic bullshit are made uncomfortable. It's conceivable that the Democrats lose and lose and lose and the under-45s get louder and louder and louder and hmm maybe it isn't so much fun to be in servitude to the lobbyists anymore and maybe it's time for the turtles to retire and maybe Pelosi gets successfully primaried and maybe it becomes impossible to put the thumb on the scale in the next round of Democratic primaries and maybe just maybe we start cleaning the fucking house.

It's a maybe, but I'll take that over your future which is Kamala/Buttigieg 2028

[Sin Agog]

Yeah, the entire liberal establishment busted out every single play in the book to scupper Bernie's rise, while the only media outlets who ever had anything particularly positive to say about Sanders were the occasional right-wing network and paper.  It's because the southern wolves knew that he, at least, wasn't just another northern fox, which was something they could grudgingly respect.

[Danger Man]

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

There is no scenario for things getting better that doesn't involve disgracing the establishment wing of the Democrats.

So it all comes down to the notion that if Biden loses the Democrats will be so ashamed that they will let the Sanders wing take over the entire party. Well godspeed if you've convinced yourself to believe that. You have far more faith in the Democratic Party (or Democratic voters) than I do!

Since you have basically ignored the entirety of my post in order to respond to the strawman you had in mind beforehand, as usual, let me just reiterate that progressive change has to come outside electoral politics. If you actually want to do the on-the-ground work to change things, then there is no question that it is better to not have the Republican Party with sole control over the arms of the police state.

[Dewt]

So it all comes down to the notion that if Biden loses the Democrats will be so ashamed that they will let a Sanders-like candidate win the nomination in 2024. Well godspeed if you've convinced yourself to believe that. You have far more faith in the Democratic Party (or Democratic voters) than I do!

You keep saying this. It completely disregards everything that has been happening within the party for the past six years. It completely ignores that Bernie was winning. It completely ignores how Trump came to power in an uglier example of the same thing that you think is impossible. Your response is predictably and always "oh you think MAGIC will just instantly happen all at once and solve everything do you? Tsk, pshaw". The black and white thinking is entirely yours.

Since you have basically ignored the entirety of my post in order to respond to the strawman you had in mind beforehand, as usual, let me just reiterate that progressive change has to come outside electoral politics.

How is that going to work without a third party or a huge change in the Democrats, hmm? You think they're just going to stop doing politics and we'll run the country via a system of rioting? Riots only work to make people uncomfortable enough that they can't continue doing what they're doing anymore. It doesn't work independently alongside politics.

Also your main point was that we'd have to elect progressives, which you think is somehow going to happen while the corporate Democrats and their supporting media are living it up.

You can't accuse anybody of painting a strawman argument when you have consistently failed to put forward any actual vision. You just keep restating the ludicrous idea that progressives will just appear in high office despite a right-wing Democratic party without getting rid of entrenched power and money being funneled through the entire process. Or that they will suddenly be able to dominate low-level politics and change the entire system from there. And if top-level isn't the important part, then great, Trump isn't a threat (obviously not true)

Why can't you see patterns? Have you ever heard of a political party in the UK called Labour? How's that lesser of two evils doing? What does that represent, other than the gate being closed on progressive politics for a decade if not forever?

[chveik]

well this is confusing.

outside electoral politics seems pretty self-explanatory.

How is that going to work without a third party or a huge change in the Democrats, hmm? You think they're just going to stop doing politics and we'll run the country via a system of rioting? Riots only work to make people uncomfortable enough that they can't continue doing what they're doing anymore. It doesn't work independently alongside politics.

the idea that riots can't transform themselves into bigger, organized movement is false when you consider the history of socialism. I have no idea if it will happen but it's pretty much the only chance people outside the system have.

[Dewt]

Okay, I'll just hang on and wait for The Riot Party to fix everything. Obvious really

[bgmnts]

You could do something proactive while you wait.