Why is Peep Show Series 4 so Awful?

[Peru]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but I'm on a rewatch of Peep Show and I'm trying to understand the staggering drop-off in quality between series 3 and 4. In particular, the 'Conference' episode has got Jez/Johnson conspiring to pimp out Big Suze and Mark bullying his colleagues, as well as a load of gratuitous T&A in a lap-dancing scene. It's absolutely horrible and they're all written completely out of character. Weirdly, series 5, while not at the level of 1-3, is a considerable pick-up.

Did Armstrong and Bain have too much on? Was The Thick of It interfering with PS? I imagine someone here might know?

[the]

Series 4 also has the infamous 'eating a dog' episode, which might effectively be a modern take on what Oh Crikey! might be like.

Series 4 is odd anyway, as the whole series is a tunnel leading up to the wedding, whereas series 5 manages to reinstate the 'Jez and Mark in the flat just trying to live their lives' dynamic.

That said, I think there's a fair amount of good stuff in S4 despite the wonky vibe. The actual wedding episode is great.

You might be onto something with the Thick Of It point.

[Puce Moment]

Never seen it, soz.

[Old Gold Tooth]

Series 5 feels like where the wheels fell off for me. Far too grimy. Genuinely don't think I could rewatch that episode with the awful Australian who agrees to be Mark's pretend girlfriend and keeps calling him "Marko".

[BritishHobo]

Is that also the series where Mark gets raped and then gets humiliated and loses a job opportunity because of it? LOL!

[Chollis]

Yeah but it has this scene

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x32ybat

[ajsmith2]

The first and last episodes of series 4 are good. Totally agree that episode 2 is fucking rotten though. It was such a gear change/shark jump moment watching that on first run. On reflection from a distance of many years it's got some good bits (I don't think there's one entirely worthless PS episode) but (and maybe I'm just being a big snopake here since they're hardly models of admirable human behaviour in the first place) the whole bit with Jez trying to pimp Suze out to Johnson was a step too far into irrevocable cuntdom for both J-beginning characters for me. Just made them both seem totally inhuman to me. Left a really nasty taste and showed that the show which I'd previously considered spotless could have clay feet. That said, Mark bullying his colleagues seemed pretty much in character imo.

Series 5 is in the same rut but without the compelling marriage arc, just Mark's nebulously defined quest for 'the one'.Se5 e2 is a better episode than Se4 e2 but is even more depressing, with Sophie's cousin getting sexually abused by Superhans being the show's grimmest moment in my estimation.

Another annoying thing about Se4 is that they brought Nancy back and then did absolutely nothing with her. After being such a major part of S2, she doesn't even get one decent scene to herself in S4. A total pointless waste, and it takes away from the brilliantly brutal conclusion of S2 ('our relationship .. will be a husk') by bringing her back so lightly to do nowt.

[pigamus]

"Here's why episode X is shit"

*immediately thinks of the best lines in X and wants to watch it again*

That ONLY ever happens to me when CaB talks about Peep Show. Never known it before.

[ajsmith2]

"Here's why episode X is shit"

*immediately thinks of the best lines in X and wants to watch it again*

That ONLY ever happens to me when CaB talks about Peep Show. Never known it before.

There are many bad Peep Show plots, but no entirely comedically bad episodes. Every single one has some treasure in the dialogue at least.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but I'm on a rewatch of Peep Show and I'm trying to understand the staggering drop-off in quality between series 3 and 4. In particular, the 'Conference' episode has got Jez/Johnson conspiring to pimp out Big Suze and Mark bullying his colleagues, as well as a load of gratuitous T&A in a lap-dancing scene. It's absolutely horrible and they're all written completely out of character. Weirdly, series 5, while not at the level of 1-3, is a considerable pick-up.

Did Armstrong and Bain have too much on? Was The Thick of It interfering with PS? I imagine someone here might know?

I thought the lapdance scene was quite funny. I don't recall it being that gratuitous, Mark clearly didn't want to be there and it's very uncomfortable, the stripper wasn't just a prop given she was giving him reasonable advice about the points being too diffuse, which was the set up to him getting a well acted angry lapdance.

[pigamus]

There are many bad Peep Show plots, but no entirely comedically bad episodes. Every single one has some treasure in the dialogue at least.

I'm trying to think of an exception to this and the only one I can think of is the New Year's Eve episode, end of series 7. That's the only one that's so poor it's not funny imo.

[Peru]

The whole bit with Jez trying to pimp Suze out to Johnson was a step too far into irrevocable cuntdom for both J-beginning characters for me. Just made them both seem totally inhuman to me. Left a really nasty taste.

Yes, that was it for me. Jez had been depicted as feckless but never actually crossing the line-he always had a shred of decency. It's just not funny at all.

Another annoying thing about Se4 is that they brought Nancy back and then did absolutely nothing with her. After being such a major part of S2, she doesn't even get one decent scene to herself in S4. A total pointless waste, and it takes away from the brilliantly brutal conclusion of S2 ('our relationship .. will be a husk') by bringing her back so lightly to do nowt.

That's a proper bad Simpsons 'remember this character?' misfire. Though I admit I did laugh at 'I was managing the Bradford IMAX on Crystal meth'

[Retinend]

What were the golden years? S4 is apparently shit, and the last one was shit but I presume the rest were good.

edit: this infamous s04e02 is not so bad

"I'm going to be Johnson's queen."
"It's not even a proper disability"
"that is a brilliant jokette"
"fuck each other - I'm serious - fuck a chicken if that's what it takes. Watch a chicken fucking a horse. You think the guys who invented Google sat around watching Trumpton?"
"a mighty fine piece of ass"
"no one is going to give me a medal for saying no"
"tube up his nose tube up his nose he's a man with a tube up his nose"
"Big Suze came round to the office to give me a piece of her mind, and ending up giving me a piece of her Ass"
"It's fun! We eat breakfast off each other"
"He's an alpha male! And you'd be the first to admit you're a bottom feeder."
"You said she was a knucklehead and she should knuckle down or you would knuckle her fat head and then you stamped on Gerard's foot."
"let's get Wankered" "yes, absolutely Cunted hahahaha"
"Is it because he is black?" "What? No! I hadn't even noticed!"
"What's Johnson done for black people lately?"
"She's touching the tube! That can't be hygienic!"
"I'm just another cock getting wired into the global economy"
"No you go ahead you're obviously very talented but I should just get on with this."
"If you can't sum up all your aims in the first line then they're too difuse"
"this is almost definitely a terrible idea but I won't know for certain until I've actually done it."
"You stomach levels bullshit wanker!"
"I'm running away, this is brilliant"
"That study bloody hippy sold me down the river!"
"That's right I've got brain cancer."
"I'd like to confirm that Mr Corrigan will indeed be dead in a month."

[Ferris]

Peep Show worked because of the performances, the one-liners and setups, and the character interaction. Some of the continuity is undeniably wonky, but that's not what's great about it.

The Australian episode still has "still, you've done London and probably want to see the rest of England." Are you throwing me out? "There's an Anzac memorial in Huddersfield" which is one of my favourite lines in the whole series.

The "eating a dog" episode has Jez on the boat complaining that he can't waterski of the back of the barge and there's "no mad shit".

And obviously, the wedding episode which is a terrific bit of work.

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

It's actually the best season, sorry to inform you.

The rest of CaB has a deranged opinion on this matter.

[Thursday]

Series 1 and 2 are the only really great one's.

Don't remember much about Series 3, it starts off with the woman that looks a bit like Toni, but isn't Toni. It was all a bit confusing.

Series 4 is all about building up to the wedding.

Series 5 introduces Dobby

The rest is a blur.


2>1>4>3>The rest.

[lipsink]

Yep, Series 1 and 2 are just perfect. Toni was bloody great too and it's such a shame they lost her. The last series was a bit of a return to the feel of the first 2 series. Perhaps they had all that time off to come back to it refreshed.

[ajsmith2]

Peep Show is Peep Show, so why should it be
Series 4 was written so awfully?

[Large Noise]

Conference is a good episode. I agree that the Jez subplot is a bit shit, but the Project Zeus stuff is good. And mark "bullying" his colleagues is just him being a dick because he's having a meltdown under pressure, before quickly regretting it and getting his comeuppance. And I'm not sure it's *that* out of character, considering we'd already seen him piss in a colleague's drawer, try to get Jeff to punch him so he'll get sacked, carry a knife, etc.

And it's been a while since I watched it, but from what I recall the strip club scene is far from "gratuitous".

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

In my opinion

That's the worst episode of the series and the very first episode that was genuinely alarming in how crud it was. As time goes on it fits into the Series 6-8 type standard.

In my opinion

Series 4 is one of the top 4 series of Peep Show (which are all the first 4 series)

[DrGreggles]

I thought s7 was universally considered to be the shit series.

Or was that Red Dwarf...

[mr. logic]

Peep Show worked because of the performances, the one-liners and setups, and the character interaction. Some of the continuity is undeniably wonky, but that's not what's great about it.

The Australian episode still has "still, you've done London and probably want to see the rest of England." Are you throwing me out? "There's an Anzac memorial in Huddersfield" which is one of my favourite lines in the whole series.

The "eating a dog" episode has Jez on the boat complaining that he can't waterski of the back of the barge and there's "no mad shit".

And obviously, the wedding episode which is a terrific bit of work.

The barge episode also had Mark's metric chat-up line, and Jez naming his group 'Untitled artist' to fuck up people with iPods

[SteK]

The barge episode also had Mark's metric chat-up line, and Jez naming his group 'Untitled artist' to fuck up people with iPods

Various Artists!

[mr. logic]

Haha, yeah that's it- Various Artists! Should set them back a few years. Which is great, obviously.

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

The uniform wrongness of the posts in this thread (except for my previous post) is honestly blowing my mind.

[BritishHobo]

I'll defend all of series 4. I can see why it looks shark-jumpy, characters and situations going too far, but I love it all. Jez's Indecent Proposal is great, I think, because of the way he tries to erase it all as soon as he's asked. He's not a total cunt - he puts his toe over the line and then when he sees her reaction and realises he's fucked it, tries to put it back in the box. I really love the mad desperate logic when he realises things were alright before he asked it, and tries stupidly to get back to their point. And Mark and his bullying has been defended enough in here already, but I just wanted to echo love for that great knucklehead line from Sophie, quoting Mark.

Jez eats dog is the one point I can't really fault anyone for thinking is too ridiculous, but fuck it, personally I find it funny. Definitely daft, but I like the stupid inevitability of him doing it.

And the whole thing bookended by Sophie's mad family (her coming down the stairs in the princess hat is one of my favourite little looks at why the fuck Sophie is the way she is) and the wedding, which is the most stressful sitcom episode I've seen, and just perfect. I used to watch that episode at 17 and think I too would probably marry someone because I was too scared and awkward fo say I don't want to.

[Ferris]

As someone who watched Peep Show (and loved it), then years later got married and had a child, I'm amazed at how worryingly applicable some of the internal thoughts/monologues are.

[Jockice]

The Australian girl bits are great, the dog-earing bit is shit.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Big fan of the dog eating section, and probably at the time one of the loudest I've laughed at anything. The performance is just superb, as is the contrivance to pin Jez down to that position in that situation.

I'm not sure what's 'too broad' about that but yet Mark chasing kids with a metal pole while screaming, self harm, kicking a dog to death, pepper spraying, shooting someone with an airgun, open door shagging of series 1 and 2 was all part of the tighter more character driven early work yeah?

[Rolf Lundgren]

Mark was always a character who with a bit of power behind him would start to go mad. Him bullying his colleagues is exactly what he would do when he was in charge.

The dog eating is fine but it's far too forced. It doesn't make sense why they try to burn it, then why they put it in a black bin bag and why the woman is so insistent on asking Jez what's in the bag. There's so many opportunities for him to get rid of it.

But it's a great series. I love the marriage arc and the final episode is almost perfect.