What are we going to do when women realise women are just nicer

[Butchers Blind]

Still said thanks when I got off the bus obvs.

Why do people do this?  You've paid your fare, their job is to stop at the requested stop. They're not doing you a favour.

[Better Midlands]

Same. My old boss made no secret of the fact that me being male was one of the many things she hated about me.

In my case I was thinking more about how they treat each other.

[Alberon]

Mind you, a recent 999: What's Your Emergency programme on Channel 4 made a compelling case that woman are getting as violent as men.

[thenoise]

Why do people do this?  You've paid your fare, their job is to stop at the requested stop. They're not doing you a favour.

We all think if we keep being extra nice to them they'll stop being so horrible to us all the time.

Same plan as with women I suppose.

[Cerys]

*cough*Amber Heard*cough*

[Blue Jam]

Looking back at Clownbaby's dating thread reminded me that a lot of men really are just horrible. There are loads of seemingly nice woke ones who reveal themselves to be a bit misogynistic after you get to know them a bit better and you do have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince and all that.

Mr Jam is a nice man though. I met a lot of horrible men before him and still feel incredibly lucky to have found a nice one.

I don't know how men feel about horrible women though and having to search far and wide among the plenty more fish in the sea to find one who isn't horrible.

In my experience horrible women tend to be the ones who try to act like horrible men- the ones who proudly declare that they're not feminists and who tear other women down and like to claim they're Not Like Other Girls and do slut-shaming and would do a mocking laugh if you tried to explain internalised misogyny to them. The same ones who like traditional gender roles and a bit of chivalry and want a man to pay for everything...

Anyway, to answer the OP's question: sex robots.

[Blue Jam]

Talking to my sisters about bullying and their time at school. Goddam.

I am a male and went through 'some' bullying' but hearing my sisters talk about what they went through, it is alot more than what I wen't through.

ELAINE: Why do they call it a wedgie?

GEORGE: Because the underwear is pulled up from the back and ... it wedges in..

JERRY: They also have an atomic wedgie. Now the goal there is to actually get the waistband on top of the head. Very rare.

ELAINE: Boys are sick.

JERRY: Well what do girls do ?

ELAINE: We just tease some one 'til they develop an eating disorder.

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

I love women, but I couldn't eat a whole one.

[Paul Calf]

/thread

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Looking back at Clownbaby's dating thread reminded me that a lot of men really are just horrible. There are loads of seemingly nice woke ones who reveal themselves to be a bit misogynistic after you get to know them a bit better and you do have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince and all that.

Mr Jam is a nice man though. I met a lot of horrible men before him and still feel incredibly lucky to have found a nice one.

I don't know how men feel about horrible women though and having to search far and wide among the plenty more fish in the sea to find one who isn't horrible.

In my experience horrible women tend to be the ones who try to act like horrible men- the ones who proudly declare that they're not feminists and who tear other women down and like to claim they're Not Like Other Girls and do slut-shaming and would do a mocking laugh if you tried to explain internalised misogyny to them. The same ones who like traditional gender roles and a bit of chivalry and want a man to pay for everything...

Anyway, to answer the OP's question: sex robots.

Fair to summarise from that your view is that the most horrible women are the ones who behave like the worst aspects of men?

Not sure about that, true in several ways but I think the style of bullying women can indulge in when wanting to establish a social pecking order has a certain sophistication and depth, more devastating and merciless if anything.

I have observed that male friendship groups tend to allow for a wider range of people within them, both in terms of personalities and interests, though obviously that's not true in a totally uniform way.

[Cardenio I]

In my (admittedly very limited) experience men are from my Mother's birth canal whereas women are from my Grandma's birth canal.

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

In my (admittedly very limited) experience men are from my Mother's birth canal whereas women are from my Grandma's birth canal.

You've got that a bit wrong. Men are from arse, women are from penis.

[checkoutgirl]

What happened in Born in Flames?

[phantom_power]

A Slade-alike band rose to stardom before infighting and egos split them up, with a young Tom Conti looking surprisingly like a young Al Pacino playing the record exec

[Lord Mandrake]

What are we going to do when sex robots realise sex robots are better?

[Blue Jam]

Fair to summarise from that your view is that the most horrible women are the ones who behave like the worst aspects of men?

Not sure about that, true in several ways but I think the style of bullying women can indulge in when wanting to establish a social pecking order has a certain sophistication and depth, more devastating and merciless if anything.

I was being a bit flippant, but I think that's fair enough. Allow me to expand:

In that workplace where I ended up with anxiety, one of the office bullies was one of those women who are assertive, even aggressive, with other women but who flirt and play dumb whenever men talk to them. The other- her bezzie mate in the clique- used to go on about how there shouldn't be a female lead in Doctor Who "for the sake of it" and how she was glad she wasn't tall because finding a boyfriend who was taller than her would be a nightmare. They both used to go on about how much they hated feminism and it wasn't just me they had a problem with- they would make snide remarks about pretty much all the female staff behind their backs, mainly about how "stupid" they all were.

I have often wondered if "toxic femininity" is a thing in the way "toxic masculinity" is, but whenever I've thought of examples they all tie in with toxic masculinity: A woman playing dumb around men ties in with that idea that women must be submissive and appear inferior to men to avoid hurting their fragile egos; the idea that a man must be taller than his girlfriend comes from a toxic ideal of a man as a big, strong protector and that having a taller girlfriend would be humiliating and unmanly, etc.

...so then, I wouldn't say these horrible women are "adopting the worst aspects of men" exactly, but they do seem to be buying into these sexist stereotypes of masculine and feminine behaviour, a toxic ideal of masculinity and how women should adapt to play into it, by flattering men and putting other women down. Aligning themselves more with those clever, sensible, stoic men than with those stupid, irrational, emotional women, etc.

I guess "toxic humanity" would be a more useful term then, but I do think it's useful to consider toxic male behaviour, especially as so much of it hurts men more than women- ie, men not feeling able to express emotions and that leading to high male suicide rates.

As for workplace bullying, years ago I was bullied out of a job by a clique of three men who were subtle and devastating in their own ways, and I have worked with women who have been plain aggressive and confrontational rather than passive-aggressive, so I'm not really sure there are distinct male and female styles of bullying.

[Blue Jam]

What are we going to do when sex robots realise sex robots are better?

Oh my god, I hadn't considered that. They had robots breeding in Blade Runner 2049 and everything so it must be entirely feasible.

Can we apply Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics to robot sex crimes? Let's see:

1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.

Robot-on-human BDSM is out of the question, then. Kinky robots will have no choice but to fuck each other.

[Butchers Blind]

They both used to go on about how much they hated feminism and it wasn't just me they had a problem with- they would make snide remarks about pretty much all the female staff behind their backs, mainly about how "stupid" they all were.

There's an old joke that goes something like, what do men and women have in common? They both hate women.

I've seen this toxic behaviour amongst women many times on a night out.  An example being, a group of women will be sitting together complementing each other on how they look, one of the group gets up to go to the toilet and while she's absent the rest of the group will verbally rip her to shreads about how she looks until she returns, then carry on being nice to each other.
In contast when Im out with a group of male friends and one of us turns up in an awful shirt, for example, straight away it would be "Fucks sake, get dressed in the dark" or some such put down.  Maybe men are better at 'banter' than women.

[Cardenio I]

I have often wondered if "toxic femininity" is a thing in the way "toxic masculinity" is, but whenever I've thought of examples they all tie in with toxic masculinity: A woman playing dumb around men ties in with that idea that women must be submissive and appear inferior to men to avoid hurting their fragile egos; the idea that a man must be taller than his girlfriend comes from a toxic ideal of a man as a big, strong protector and that having a taller girlfriend would be humiliating and unmanly, etc.

Doesn't the whole thing work as a binary system though? You can't have masculinity without femininity, and so "toxic femininity" would just be the other side of the coin.

I'm quite surprised the MRAs and incels haven't already coined "toxic femininity" to describe mouthy sluts who wont put out.

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

Maybe men and women in general are both just a set of cunts?

[Blue Jam]

Is "Toxic Masculinity" just another way of saying "LEGEND GARY"?

Actually, female LEGEND GARYs definitely do exist.

[bgmnts]

LEGEND GERI

[thenoise]

I've worked with women like that, they only do that playing dumb/sucking up thing to men who are in authority over them. How do they treat the courier? The electrician? The IT dogsbody? How does that fit into your theory?

[Blue Jam]

The IT dogsbody? What, you think they don't flirt with Mister Big Clever Man Who Knows All About Computers? Ooooh, Mr Courier, is that for me? Oh you shouldn't have, tee-hee! ;)

I've seen plenty of women do it in non-work situations too. Like in this video which I feel is obligatory to post here:

https://youtu.be/Eye5KutA9eE

I had a friend who was like this with men, and I never worked with her. I did pull her up on it though and I hope she eventually had a proper think about her behaviour.

[Butchers Blind]

Men are hilarious...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prankster-who-promised-girlfriend-spa-21534016.amp?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar&__twitter_impression=true

[bgmnts]

Story below that:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/heartbroken-mum-posts-video-son-21536191

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I was being a bit flippant, but I think that's fair enough. Allow me to expand:

In that workplace where I ended up with anxiety, one of the office bullies was one of those women who are assertive, even aggressive, with other women but who flirt and play dumb whenever men talk to them. The other- her bezzie mate in the clique- used to go on about how there shouldn't be a female lead in Doctor Who "for the sake of it" and how she was glad she wasn't tall because finding a boyfriend who was taller than her would be a nightmare. They both used to go on about how much they hated feminism and it wasn't just me they had a problem with- they would make snide remarks about pretty much all the female staff behind their backs, mainly about how "stupid" they all were.

I have often wondered if "toxic femininity" is a thing in the way "toxic masculinity" is, but whenever I've thought of examples they all tie in with toxic masculinity: A woman playing dumb around men ties in with that idea that women must be submissive and appear inferior to men to avoid hurting their fragile egos; the idea that a man must be taller than his girlfriend comes from a toxic ideal of a man as a big, strong protector and that having a taller girlfriend would be humiliating and unmanly, etc.

...so then, I wouldn't say these horrible women are "adopting the worst aspects of men" exactly, but they do seem to be buying into these sexist stereotypes of masculine and feminine behaviour, a toxic ideal of masculinity and how women should adapt to play into it, by flattering men and putting other women down. Aligning themselves more with those clever, sensible, stoic men than with those stupid, irrational, emotional women, etc.

I guess "toxic humanity" would be a more useful term then, but I do think it's useful to consider toxic male behaviour, especially as so much of it hurts men more than women- ie, men not feeling able to express emotions and that leading to high male suicide rates.

As for workplace bullying, years ago I was bullied out of a job by a clique of three men who were subtle and devastating in their own ways, and I have worked with women who have been plain aggressive and confrontational rather than passive-aggressive, so I'm not really sure there are distinct male and female styles of bullying.

Interesting reading, and by the way thanks for actually making this thread worth a fuck to read. My opening post was a bit of a emotional reaction to a feeling of vague happiness.

The idea of toxic femininity can only be examined if there is something unhealthy about behaving in accordance with a caricature of female gender roles rather than toxic masculinity which is the male equivalent.

Is submissiveness, the tendency towards petty martyrdom, nest building etc toxic femininity? Dunno, maybe it's just not that useful to have axioms of this nature. It implies some degree of fault which is perhaps unfair.

Flipping it all back to 'well this behaviour is only down to how men have behaved forever' is obviously true (although it abdicates a degree of individual agency, ignores historical exceptions) but the crucial thing is it perhaps doesn't really credit that just as male behaviour exists because of the presence of women, so the reverse.

[Pingers]

Blue Jam's line of work seems piled high with ample twats - bad luck there.

[madhair60]

femininity presumably only a thing because of the patriarchy deciding what is and isn't """ladylike"""

[DistressedArea]

.