What are we going to do when women realise women are just nicer

[Johnny Yesno]

I was being a bit flippant, but I think that's fair enough. Allow me to expand:

In that workplace where I ended up with anxiety, one of the office bullies was one of those women who are assertive, even aggressive, with other women but who flirt and play dumb whenever men talk to them. The other- her bezzie mate in the clique- used to go on about how there shouldn't be a female lead in Doctor Who "for the sake of it" and how she was glad she wasn't tall because finding a boyfriend who was taller than her would be a nightmare. They both used to go on about how much they hated feminism and it wasn't just me they had a problem with- they would make snide remarks about pretty much all the female staff behind their backs, mainly about how "stupid" they all were.

I have often wondered if "toxic femininity" is a thing in the way "toxic masculinity" is, but whenever I've thought of examples they all tie in with toxic masculinity: A woman playing dumb around men ties in with that idea that women must be submissive and appear inferior to men to avoid hurting their fragile egos; the idea that a man must be taller than his girlfriend comes from a toxic ideal of a man as a big, strong protector and that having a taller girlfriend would be humiliating and unmanly, etc.

...so then, I wouldn't say these horrible women are "adopting the worst aspects of men" exactly, but they do seem to be buying into these sexist stereotypes of masculine and feminine behaviour, a toxic ideal of masculinity and how women should adapt to play into it, by flattering men and putting other women down. Aligning themselves more with those clever, sensible, stoic men than with those stupid, irrational, emotional women, etc.

I guess "toxic humanity" would be a more useful term then, but I do think it's useful to consider toxic male behaviour, especially as so much of it hurts men more than women- ie, men not feeling able to express emotions and that leading to high male suicide rates.

As for workplace bullying, years ago I was bullied out of a job by a clique of three men who were subtle and devastating in their own ways, and I have worked with women who have been plain aggressive and confrontational rather than passive-aggressive, so I'm not really sure there are distinct male and female styles of bullying.

Aren't you just talking about tories?

[Johnny Yesno]

Right. Well, if it helps to recalibrate I just made the thread off-hand last night for a laugh, while that tag meme you're referencing was one I created.

The meme has come home.

[thenoise]

The IT dogsbody? What, you think they don't flirt with Mister Big Clever Man Who Knows All About Computers? Ooooh, Mr Courier, is that for me? Oh you shouldn't have, tee-hee! ;)

I've seen plenty of women do it in non-work situations too. Like in this video which I feel is obligatory to post here:

https://youtu.be/Eye5KutA9eE

I had a friend who was like this with men, and I never worked with her. I did pull her up on it though and I hope she eventually had a proper think about her behaviour.

FINE ITS JUST ME THEY LOOK DOWN ON THEN :(

[Jockice]

I mentioned Pearl's Cafe by The Specials on the Chart Music thread a few days ago and it set me thinking of an incident that reminded me of it. For those who haven't heard it, the narrator has a good-looking girlfriend who sneers at an obviously lonely middle-aged woman in a cafe.

Anyway, in my late 20s I was out in the pub with a few friends. There was only one female there but we somehow ended up with a very drunk woman probably at least a decade older in our group. I for one certainly didn't mind. She was pissed but actually quite funny with it, and was joining in our conversations and laughing along.

Then the lass in our group leaned over to her and in a voice loud enough for everyone to hear said: "Are you here on your own then?'' That always struck me as incredibly bitchy. She was very obviously on her own and it's not as if it could have been much fun getting made-up and all that but having nobody to go out with. Plus I (and I guess a lot of people) have been known to just pop out to a pub or club when bored at home, especially in the days when there was no mobile phones or internet. I haven't done it for a very long time, but that's mainly cos I don't feel the urge to go out as much.

As soon as *** said that the atmosphere totally changed and became very awkward as the woman admitted she was and soon slunk off. It was just totally uncalled for but I suppose *** was satisfied as all the attention was back on her. Strange behaviour, and not by a long chalk the only time I've seen that sort of unpleasantness towards females from other females.

[Cerys]

I'm posting this to clear the edit glitch, but also to ask how long it was before you dumped the heartless bitch.

[Cerys]

Rhyme unintentional.

[pigamus]

Which?

[Cerys]

I see what you did there.

[Johnny Yesno]

Dumped? Ditched, surely.

[Cerys]

That would make the line too rich.

[Jockice]

I'm posting this to clear the edit glitch, but also to ask how long it was before you dumped the heartless bitch.

Me? I'm actually still vaguely in touch with her. We went to school together and although we rarely see each other we still swap birthday and Christmas greetings. She's not usually the bitchy type (I've met much MUCH worse) and there's also the possibility that she didn't mean it in a bitchy way, although it certainly came across as exactly that.

Anyway she got married a few years later but her husband just without warning walked out on her one day - according to her telling anyway - and as far as I know she hasn't had another relationship since. Might be a bit of karma there.

[Flatulent Fox]

Crikey!
           Would this help things or make it worse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlJbHQ8lhgc

[Jockice]

Crikey!
           Would this help things or make it worse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlJbHQ8lhgc

I'll leave that for the ladies to decide.

[Johnny Yesno]

Shame | ContraPoints: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7WvHTl_Q7I

I thought of this thread while I was watching the above video. If Natalie is right about comp-het, then all I can say is 'Oh, fuck.'