Is it worth giving a shit about the Scottish Labour Deputy Leadership election?

[machotrouts]

On the 3rd of April, as an aperitif to the actual Labour leader/deputy leader election, we (the three remaining members north of the border) will also elect the next deputy leader of Scottish Labour, Scotland's official opposition opposition opposition party.

Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard isn't going anywhere as far as I know, but Scottish Labour deputy leader for the past 2 years Lesley Laird (who I have never heard of) has stepped down.

The 2 qualifying candidates to replace her are:

• Jackie Baillie (who I have vaguely heard of), MSP for Dumbarton
• Matt Kerr (who I have never heard of), councillor for Cardonald (which I have never heard of)

While I try to keep up on the 1756 Labour threads on this forum, I didn't know this was happening until I got a text from Jackie Baillie to ask if I'm Y, N, or U, so here's a 1757th.

Does anyone know anything about either candidate? Does any of this matter at all? I mean besides "no".

[dissolute ocelot]

The most exciting thing in Jackie Baillie's Wikipedia page seems to be "In 2009 she successfully brought into being an act of the Scottish Parliament, with the unanimous support of all MSPs, to allow for greater protection of disabled parking spaces." Sadly this has completely failed.

Lesley Laird was beaten at the last election by Neale Hanvey, who stood as an independent after being suspended from the SNP for pushing anti-semitic conspiracy theories. That does pretty much sum up Labour's problems, can't even win the votes of anti-semites up north.

I'm guessing Baillie is the favourite as she's an MSP rather than a councillor and has some media profile. But it's hard to discern anything interesting about the candidates.

[Replies From View]

Unfortunately politicians are mostly boring folk and there is no way of getting around it.

[canadagoose]

I get the feeling that Scottish Labour is still pretty dull. I've known more than one perfectly nice person who is involved in it, and they never seem particularly happy about where it's going. Not sure how much the direction of the party will depend upon who's elected UK party leader. Maybe things will get interesting after that.

[Danger Man]

How I imagine Scottish Labour in a few years time.

[Cuellar]

Ghosts?!

[Danger Man]

Yes.

[Heid The Baw]

No.

[chveik]

Does anyone know anything about either candidate? Does any of this matter at all? I mean besides "no".

No.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

At this stage they would be better off turning Scottish Labour into a divisive personality cult like with Salmond/Farage. It's clear Leonard was the right person for the party at the time but it became clear quickly he wasn't going to be able to transfer relatively party unity (and I mean relative) into seats, particularly during a campaign where Brexit was involved.

[dissolute ocelot]

Realistically, Scottish Labour's only hope is that Alex Salmond is convicted of all the sex crimes, Nicola Sturgeon is brought into it, she barricades herself into the parliament building like Evita Peron, the army is called in to start shelling it, Scotland descends into civil war, and while most of the country establishes itself as an Independent SNP Kingdom under Prince Harry, SE Scotland remains a unionist rump with three or four Labour people emptying the bins. It's honestly hard to see Labour becoming relevant without every stage of that: there might be a few unionists of vaguely leftish beliefs, but they're not prepared to admit it in public.

[Mobbd]

I like Matt Kerr. He's a proper socialist but an interesting, non-nostalgic one. Into UBI and that.

[Sebastian Cobb]

At this stage they would be better off turning Scottish Labour into a divisive personality cult like with Salmond/Farage. It's clear Leonard was the right person for the party at the time but it became clear quickly he wasn't going to be able to transfer relatively party unity (and I mean relative) into seats, particularly during a campaign where Brexit was involved.

The thing about the SNP is that aside from the 'personality cult' they also have managed to run most public services better than the ones down south. It's that trick of cheating on your exams by revising all the material; I don't know how they keep getting away with it.

[Replies From View]

Scottish Labour is like one of those Beano Comic Library things where the artwork's done by some intern or work experience kid and you can see they're trying their best but it's all wonky.

[dissolute ocelot]

The thing about the SNP is that aside from the 'personality cult' they also have managed to run most public services better than the ones down south. It's that trick of cheating on your exams by revising all the material; I don't know how they keep getting away with it.

They've really not though. Especially if you factor in the advantage you get for having slightly more money per head. Scottish education is declining, now level with England on reading and worse on math and science. Scotrail is near the bottom for train services. Scotland is littered with hospitals that don't work or can't even open. Drug deaths are rising and are far higher than England. Inequality is stubbornly not being reduced. Avoidable mortality is worse than in England, and mortality rates are not improving. A lot of things like crime are counted in different ways so it's hard to give a good comparison, but things like mortality are hard to fudge. But at least Scotland has baby boxes.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Talks about standards of education, calls it 'math'.

[Blinder Data]

I chapped on doors for Matt Kerr at the last election because he's a proper socialist and, from what I hear, an all round good guy. See him here having a go at Glasgow councillors of all parties for putting forward budgets that contained cuts: https://twitter.com/MattKerrLabour/status/1230780214172684288

He would've been a good MP. Hopefully he can be elected next time. I will be voting for him.

Jackie Baillie, though commendable in some ways, is a relic from the bad ol' days of Scottish Labour, like many Labour MSPs. It's time for her ilk to give up their stranglehold on power (if only there was enough talent waiting in the wings to take over). In 2018 she got sacked from the Shadow Cabinet by Leonard with whom she has enjoyed a few ding-dongs due to being from different wings of the party. If she gets elected, expect clashes à la Corbyn-Watson but x100.

Leonard is a laughing stock so should resign but I really don't know who would do a better job. It's so bad now I almost wish Sarwar had got in instead :S

[Zetetic]

Scotland is littered with hospitals that don't work or can't even open.

One of the major differences between the SNP and Welsh Labour has been about debt and investment. Scotland has ended up taken a fair bit of private debt (via PFI schemes frequently) to fund buying stuff, such that servicing debt now takes up about 5% of their budget. By contrast, Wales has largely forgone any major government investments, avoided private finance and so perhaps only 1% of their (smaller in all sorts of ways) budget goes on serving debt.

The irony, perhaps, is that Scotland generally starts from a far better position in terms of infrastructure and other capital, while much of Wales badly needs capital investment and arguably government-led economic stimulus.

[jamiefairlie]

They've really not though. Especially if you factor in the advantage you get for having slightly more money per head. Scottish education is declining, now level with England on reading and worse on math and science. Scotrail is near the bottom for train services. Scotland is littered with hospitals that don't work or can't even open. Drug deaths are rising and are far higher than England. Inequality is stubbornly not being reduced. Avoidable mortality is worse than in England, and mortality rates are not improving. A lot of things like crime are counted in different ways so it's hard to give a good comparison, but things like mortality are hard to fudge. But at least Scotland has baby boxes.

So true. the fucking Jocks are soooooo thick to keep voting for the SNPIRA.  Blinded by their hate-filled anti-English obsession. Why can't they see how much better off they were when Labour ran the country. I just don't get why they can't see the truth.

[machotrouts]

Jackie Baillie sure sounds serious about opposing division!







"We shouldn't have another Scottish independence referendum, because it would be divisive. Nationalists and unionists must instead work together in harmony... to fight those awful divisive nationalists"

I will be voting for Matt Kerr.

[bgmnts]

Why is she on a pitch?

[Sebastian Cobb]

Another politician who seems to think overusing words like 'values' absolves you from having any.

[Garam]

So true. the fucking Jocks are soooooo thick to keep voting for the SNPIRA.  Blinded by their hate-filled anti-English obsession. Why can't they see how much better off they were when Labour ran the country. I just don't get why they can't see the truth.

You should be able to gently criticise a party without it being met with this sort of tedious bullshit

[canadagoose]

You should be able to gently criticise a party without it being met with this sort of tedious bullshit

[Danger Man]

When 'Our MP' appears on the Labour Party website in England it will be a glorious day indeed,

[machotrouts]

Well she won.