Star Trek - The Next Generation

[samadriel]

Edit bug

...new page bug.

[samadriel]

Actually, I'll post something; last week I caught pt 1 of a TNG two parter where Lore reprograms a bunch of Borg into being individuals who stoke real feelings of anger and sadism in Data. Now I'm not in a position to watch the 2nd part for another few weeks due to lockdown, but that was a fucking great cliffhanger, best episode of TNG I've seen in ages.

[purlieu]

Actually, I'll post something; last week I caught pt 1 of a TNG two parter where Lore reprograms a bunch of Borg into being individuals who stoke real feelings of anger and sadism in Data. Now I'm not in a position to watch the 2nd part for another few weeks due to lockdown, but that was a fucking great cliffhanger, best episode of TNG I've seen in ages.

The last episode of season 6. They had some incredible season end cliffhangers. The best being Best of Both Worlds, of course.

[Malcy]

If anyone uses the PlutoTV app and hasn't seen the DS9 documentary then keep an eye on the schedules. Its on right now and will no doubt be repeated loads.

[purlieu]

Just remembered this wonderful Father Ted-esque moment that I captured a few weeks ago.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I just watched "Q-Pid" which I enjoyed very much. Worf dressed as Will Scarlett looking deeply unhappy and saying "I'M NOT A MERRY MAN" made me do a laugh.

Fucking yes

[The Culture Bunker]

My own personal favourite from that one is Worf evoking John Belushi by smashing up Geordi's lute (?), then apologising.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Isn't the point of the Enterprise series that humans are still kinda ignorant assholes who haven't developed to the point we are used to in Star Trek? I know that doesn't make it any more likable but the obnoxious neocon cunts in space format seems like the show is pointing out irrational and stupid human tendencies the whole time, using them as the whipping boys. It's a long and fairly turgid critique of the tendency of humans to place arrogant act-before-thinking bone head alpha males in important positions. It doesn't work of course, it alienated a lot of core fans while picking up hardly any new ones, but I choose to make this interpretation of it.

Of course even that pile of shit is better than the recent films or Discovery. Avengers Quips with impossible levels of peril that exhaust any tension or stake in the characters or proceedings.

The original series and TNG did it right. Episodic moral dilemmas in space. I'm not a DS9 fan but I can see why that would also work.

[dr_christian_troy]

I think my favourite (unintentionally?) comedic episode is Season 4's "Devil's Due" - it's basically Picard telling an irritating pantomime villain to fuck off.

[Wonderful Butternut]

Isn't the point of the Enterprise series that humans are still kinda ignorant assholes who haven't developed to the point we are used to in Star Trek? I know that doesn't make it any more likable but the obnoxious neocon cunts in space format seems like the show is pointing out irrational and stupid human tendencies the whole time, using them as the whipping boys.  It's a long and fairly turgid critique of the tendency of humans to place arrogant act-before-thinking bone head alpha males in important positions. It doesn't work of course, it alienated a lot of core fans while picking up hardly any new ones, but I choose to make this interpretation of it.

I remember a few episodes where their inexperience in space shows up[nb]Such as the early ep where they find a derelict ship full of dead people and don't know what to do. The episode with the Elachi (CGI Mushroom headed aliens) is another one.[/nb], but those episodes are generally characterised by the crew stumbling around in dismay and confusion, and occasionally wonderment, rather than assholery or arrogance. The assholery comes from the near constant spitting of poison at T'Pol and Vulcans for the first 2 seasons and insisting that humans know better than people who've been in space for 100s of years. The framing on that, and the fact that nearly all guest Vulcans in Ent go around with sweeping brooms shoved up their arses, points to an intention that audience is supposed to identify and agree with Archer & Fucker Tucker.

So it's less a case of it not working, and more that an intention that human arrogance comes across as bad didn't really exist in the first place. Archer did pay some lip service to being careless in that awful abortion of a Finale, but T'Pol absolved him by saying the risks he took were justified.

[purlieu]

I think my favourite (unintentionally?) comedic episode is Season 4's "Devil's Due" - it's basically Picard telling an irritating pantomime villain to fuck off.

Oh, there's definitely a fair amount of intended comedy in that episode. I love that one, lots of fun.

Endured Dr. Crusher Fucks a Ghost tonight. Definitely the worst 'proper' episode (Shades of Grey doesn't count as a proper episode).

[dr_christian_troy]

Oh, there's definitely a fair amount of intended comedy in that episode. I love that one, lots of fun.

Endured Dr. Crusher Fucks a Ghost tonight. Definitely the worst 'proper' episode (Shades of Grey doesn't count as a proper episode).

Oh my, I felt deeply uncomfortable when she appeared to be consumed by the ghost and began cumming all over the house.

[purlieu]

The Lower Decks today. What a tremendous episode. It's interesting being able to see a mission from the perspective of those other than the bridge crew, and how they're unable to fully understand what happened. And what a gut punch of an ending.

[earl_sleek]

Lower Decks is a top ten TNG episode; would be good if the Lower Decks series can avoid shitting on the name...

[grainger]

Oh, there's definitely a fair amount of intended comedy in that episode. I love that one, lots of fun.

Endured Dr. Crusher Fucks a Ghost tonight. Definitely the worst 'proper' episode (Shades of Grey doesn't count as a proper episode).

The Hollywood "authentic Scotland" planet (Picard remarks how like the highlands it is). That scenery-chewing "Scottish" friend of the Crusher family, and also the planet governor saying "There's a caber toss scheduled for tomorrow"...

[grainger]

I felt that with each Berman-era Trek series the creators (maybe due to Berman, given what we know of him now?) were trying to get away from the PC-ness of TNG. I consider this a bad thing, by the way.

I am not a big fan of DS9, but I can see that it did good things by bending the formula. Voyager (as well as being totally shit) was a bit (lot?) more laissez faire with the Prime Directive and Enterprise had a set-up where they didn't have the Prime Directive at all. I think the creators wanted to go back to the Kirk era "shoot first" feel. Coincidentally or not, the Star Trek name got smaller on each logo until they dropped it entirely for Enterprise (but then had to put it back to try to reel viewers back in).

[Blumf]

... go back to the Kirk era "shoot first" feel.

A common misconception, but the TOS era was pretty close to TNG in terms of morals. Kirk may have been a pan-galactic space shagger, but he did mostly work towards peaceful solutions.

[The Culture Bunker]

Surely the most gung-ho "I recommend we kill them. Kill them all!" primary Star Trek character was Worf?

[Blumf]

Surely the most gung-ho "I recommend we kill them. Kill them all!" primary Star Trek character was Worf?

I think he was more interested in actions that would result in him being killed, just needed it to look 'honourable'.

[earl_sleek]

I don't think it's even fair to say Voyager was more laissez-faire with the PD. I haven't watched it for years but going by memory there were loads of episodes they made life a lot harder for themselves by sticking to doing things the Starfleet way. Though it was probably more to do with making things convenient for the writers more than anything else.

[The Culture Bunker]

I think he was more interested in actions that would result in him being killed, just needed it to look 'honourable'.

I'm doubtless not remembering it right, but in my mind, I can see occasions when the Enterprise would come across some strange ship or situation:

"Options?"
"I recommend a full volley of torpedoes!"
"<dismissive> Thank you, Mr Worf."

And you'd see him sulking in the back of the shot, probably thinking "you massive fanny, Picard" while Troi said some inane nonsense about vague feelings, before Data sorted it all out.

[oy vey]

I think my favourite (unintentionally?) comedic episode is Season 4's "Devil's Due" - it's basically Picard telling an irritating pantomime villain to fuck off.

It's interesting that the plot point that flattens it towards mediocrity (Picard already saw through her from the outset) is also what makes it watchable for the entertainment of it. Picard's "Who are you?" is hilarious and I have used it on many occasions in real life. Troy also proves useless for the umpteenth time "She has an incredibly focused mind. I can't sense anything." Again. Fuck sake.

[dr_christian_troy]

The Lower Decks today. What a tremendous episode. It's interesting being able to see a mission from the perspective of those other than the bridge crew, and how they're unable to fully understand what happened. And what a gut punch of an ending.

A lovely episode which further demonstrates that in any narrative, every character has a story and a motivation. Sito Jaxa played by Shannon Fill is an interesting and motivated character looking for redemption and the emotional impact of the episode is stronger from her performance.

[Famous Mortimer]

A common misconception, but the TOS era was pretty close to TNG in terms of morals. Kirk may have been a pan-galactic space shagger, but he did mostly work towards peaceful solutions.

Rewatching it, it's surprising how many meetings and discussions there are in it. It's less action-packed than I remember (but still excellent).

[JamesTC]

I am not a big fan of DS9, but I can see that it did good things by bending the formula. Voyager (as well as being totally shit) was a bit (lot?) more laissez faire with the Prime Directive and Enterprise had a set-up where they didn't have the Prime Directive at all. I think the creators wanted to go back to the Kirk era "shoot first" feel.

Enterprise Season 1 had a whole episode about how much they can fuck everything up without some overarching rule on influencing new civilisations.

[purlieu]

Masks: Well, they really took advantage of it being the last series as an opportunity to do some lunatic stories. I get a real feeling of the writer not really knowing what the fuck was going on there, but it has a memorably unique feel and Brent Spiner is superb as ever.

[oy vey]

I'd be happy to start a new thread...

Please. Make it so.

[purlieu]

Genesis. What a ludicrous episode. Managed some decent horror moments, and Patrick Stewart shines as usual, but it's definitely another 'last series, let's just go nuts' story.

[Malcy]

Genesis. What a ludicrous episode. Managed some decent horror moments, and Patrick Stewart shines as usual, but it's definitely another 'last series, let's just go nuts' story.

Worf terrified me as a child. So did Spider-Barclay as well.

[purlieu]

All Good Things... is so good, what a way to end the show. Manages to be the biggest scale threat the show's had so far, and still explores it as a character story. The end with Picard finally joining the poker game is such a lovely moment.

I've never seen any of the TNG films before, so the next four days will have some interesting stuff. Meantime, I've scored every episode out of ten and done averages for the seven series:

TNG1: 6.88
TNG2: 7.36
TNG3: 7.92307692
TNG4: 8.03846154
TNG5: 7.96153846
TNG6: 7.88461538
TNG7: 7.76

Which puts order of preference as: 4, 5, 6, 3, 7, 2, 1, with 3-7 a notable step above the first two. Feels about right to me.