Star Trek - The Next Generation

[Wonderful Butternut]

I think the D'deridex class looked imposing, but the useable volume wasn't significantly more than a Galaxy class, mostly focused on that front section. Which fits in with the Romulan political style nicely.

It's possible the D'deridex has less useable internal volume considering the massive void between the wings.

Of course, most starships in Star Trek are ginormous for their crew compliment anyway. Some bloke worked out that the Enterprise D has an internal floor area of nearly 9 million square feet.[nb]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwx5uB0pyhQ&ab_channel=ECHenry[/nb] Even if half that is uninhabitable due to machinery, anti-matter storage etc. it's still huge for a crew of 1000 and entire decks of it must be deserted most of the time.

[petril]

I think the D'deridex class looked imposing, but the useable volume wasn't significantly more than a Galaxy class, mostly focused on that front section. Which fits in with the Romulan political style nicely.

haha, aye, actually. first look is shit scary, but yeah, the big gap and the iffy propulsion system sums them up. and the green. wonder if they stuck a pointless ridge on it as well

[the hum]

Re-watched Descent recently (courtesy of the continual Horror channel re-runs). I remember being underwhelmed by it first time round, and that's not changed over time. What does stand out now is how cheap it looks, especially compared to Best of Both Worlds, which was three years earlier. A Borg/Lore crossover offered potential, but the Borg are reduced to angry henchmen carrying little real threat, meanwhile the subplot involving Beverly captaining the ship felt rushed and contrived, and phoned-in by all concerned. Definitely the weakest of the season finale two parters.

[Malcy]

Get this watched. 'All I Want For Xmas'

https://youtube.com/watch?v=3KvWwJ6sh5s

He does one every year.

https://youtube.com/user/jcworsley

[oy vey]

Re-watched Descent recently (courtesy of the continual Horror channel re-runs). I remember being underwhelmed by it first time round, and that's not changed over time. What does stand out now is how cheap it looks, especially compared to Best of Both Worlds, which was three years earlier. A Borg/Lore crossover offered potential, but the Borg are reduced to angry henchmen carrying little real threat, meanwhile the subplot involving Beverly captaining the ship felt rushed and contrived, and phoned-in by all concerned. Definitely the weakest of the season finale two parters.

Descent was total arse, as was much of season 7.

[Mobbd]

Descent was total arse, as was much of season 7.

I always think this opinion is over-the-top. It's probably the worst season of TNG but that's still probably the 8th or 9th best season of all of Star Trek. In our house, the name for Decent is 'decent'.

I'd rather watch Masks (probably the most-cited TNG clanger) than most of Voyager, half of DS9, half of TOS, four or five of the movies, or a single episode of new Trek. I'm not even knocking those things (except for new Trek obviously).

[kalowski]

We've been working through these recently. My kids love it. Next up is Q Who so I am very excited about seeing the Borg for the first time (again).

[oy vey]

I always think this opinion is over-the-top. It's probably the worst season of TNG but that's still probably the 8th or 9th best season of all of Star Trek. In our house, the name for Decent is 'decent'.

I'd rather watch Masks (probably the most-cited TNG clanger) than most of Voyager, half of DS9, half of TOS, four or five of the movies, or a single episode of new Trek. I'm not even knocking those things (except for new Trek obviously).

Hmm each to their own i suppose. Except for new trek obviously yes.

[Mobbd]

We've been working through these recently. My kids love it. Next up is Q Who so I am very excited about seeing the Borg for the first time (again).

Yeah man, now you're talkin'. That's a fave. Love the creepy music.

[Lemming]

Speaking of Season 7, I happened to catch the infamous Sub Rosa last night. Fucking love it, in spite of itself. Genuinely crippling laughter when the ghost guy dissolves into nothingness while screaming BEVERLEEEEeeeeyyyy.

The dialogue near the start nearly made me shit myself laughing as well, after Bev gets felt up by the ghost for the first time. Beverley loudly telling Troi about her boring sex dream in Ten Forward while people squeeze past the table, desperately trying to ignore them. "He knew exactly how I liked to be touched. It was the most physical dream I've ever had. The sensations were very real and extremely arousing." Don't blame Gates McFadden for just plowing through it in monotone.

Imagine if Picard had been chosen as the lead character for this one, and it was him getting ghost-molested. Imagine Patrick Stewart delivering these lines while talking with Riker. "The sensations were very real, Will, and... extremely arousing."

I wonder what the intention was with this episode. Is it a sort of gothic horror thing, is it meant to be genuinely romantic even though it's about a mind-controlling ghost, honestly can't decode it, but it's 45 minutes of laugh-out-loud fun.

[Wonderful Butternut]

Imagine if Picard had been chosen as the lead character for this one, and it was him getting ghost-molested. Imagine Patrick Stewart delivering these lines while talking with Riker. "The sensations were very real, Will, and... extremely arousing."

Isn't that how half the adult fanfics for TNG start?

[Blumf]

Imagine if Picard had been chosen as the lead character for this one, and it was him getting ghost-molested. Imagine Patrick Stewart delivering these lines while talking with Riker. "The sensations were very real, Will, and... extremely arousing."

https://youtu.be/zY3RN07MTf0?t=26

[Phil_A]

Speaking of Season 7, I happened to catch the infamous Sub Rosa last night. Fucking love it, in spite of itself. Genuinely crippling laughter when the ghost guy dissolves into nothingness while screaming BEVERLEEEEeeeeyyyy.

The dialogue near the start nearly made me shit myself laughing as well, after Bev gets felt up by the ghost for the first time. Beverley loudly telling Troi about her boring sex dream in Ten Forward while people squeeze past the table, desperately trying to ignore them. "He knew exactly how I liked to be touched. It was the most physical dream I've ever had. The sensations were very real and extremely arousing." Don't blame Gates McFadden for just plowing through it in monotone.

Imagine if Picard had been chosen as the lead character for this one, and it was him getting ghost-molested. Imagine Patrick Stewart delivering these lines while talking with Riker. "The sensations were very real, Will, and... extremely arousing."

I wonder what the intention was with this episode. Is it a sort of gothic horror thing, is it meant to be genuinely romantic even though it's about a mind-controlling ghost, honestly can't decode it, but it's 45 minutes of laugh-out-loud fun.

There was a long-standing theory that it was written by Anne Rice under a pseudonym, as the writer given "Based on material by" credit Jeanna F Gallo hasn't any other credits to her name. Turns out this wasn't the case, Gallo was a fan who submitted a script for the episode that was then heavily rewritten by two of the staff writers, as she explains in this comment on the Agony Booth article for the episode:

There is a Jeanna F. Gallo and I am she. I was not and am not a member of the WGA and therefore would not have received any credit as a writer. Trek was one of the very few series that ever invited story pitches from fans which is what I was. I did write a full script (which Jeri Taylor read) somewhat similar to what was eventually filmed, but it was the concept that was purchased and totally rewritten by both Braga and Jeri Taylor as a gothic romance. A lot of fans really like this episode by the way. I was initially diappointed with it. But it's not very like my original concept or script at all--except for the scottish colony and centering on Beverly Crusher. And in my story the Granny was very much alive and envisioned as a role for the great 40s actress Dorothy McGuire. Anne Rice has nada to do with it--in fact neither I nor Jeri Taylor (or Braga it turned out) have ever read her books. I have still not read "Lasher" to this day. We've been most amused by the speculation, but it is truly the very definition of idle. There are no new ideas under the sun and the way it was fashioned is much more due to Jeri and Braga than my input as a fan on the east coast who wanted to see a scottish theme and a Bev story.

[purlieu]

Series 7 feels a bit like they're pushing it, trying out crazy ideas that don't resolve in a satisfying way. It feels like the show's had its run. It's still more enjoyable than the first two series, simply because it's less pedestrian, but it's far from classic TNG.

We've been working through these recently. My kids love it. Next up is Q Who so I am very excited about seeing the Borg for the first time (again).

Jealous of your kids watching that for the first time. It's a real game-changer, the moment when suddenly things no longer feel so cosy. I always feel sad The Borg never quite lived up to the promise of this and the two-parter. I suppose once you've blown them up once, it's hard to do much else with them, but I enjoyed their utterly dispassionate unstoppableness and how totally at odds it is with everything in the Alpha Quadrant. "Oh shit, there's something bigger at play here" moments are always my favourites.

[oy vey]

After BOBW I honestly don't think anything good was done with the Borg until Voyager's Scorpion^*. Introducing an even cuntier species to give the Borg something to cry about. Of course the writers shat on them as well.

^{*I Borg was okay for what it was, though they painted themselves into a corner. The Queen in First Contact was sexy enough to get a D minus.}

[JamesTC]

Season 7 is the writers room desperately running out of ideas. Still tops Season 1 and 2 and matches Season 3. It does inspire a fair few really great episodes. Plus the best finale ever made as the cherry on top.

[kalowski]

Jealous of your kids watching that for the first time. It's a real game-changer, the moment when suddenly things no longer feel so cosy. I always feel sad The Borg never quite lived up to the promise of this and the two-parter. I suppose once you've blown them up once, it's hard to do much else with them, but I enjoyed their utterly dispassionate unstoppableness and how totally at odds it is with everything in the Alpha Quadrant. "Oh shit, there's something bigger at play here" moments are always my favourites.

Can't believe that just a couple of episodes later we've got the terrible "Up the long ladder" with its ludicrous Oirish travellers.

[the hum]

Season 7 is the writers room desperately running out of ideas. Still tops Season 1 and 2 and matches Season 3. It does inspire a fair few really great episodes. Plus the best finale ever made as the cherry on top.

Nah, S1 and 2 can be excused as they were finding their feet (and besides the latter has more great episodes amongst the mediocrity), and 3 is just far better in all respects. The step up in quality, visually and in the writing and directing, in season 3 really is remarkable. Feels like it was done years after season 2. The last season though... it just bumbles along aimlessly. Aside from the genuinely great finale, Worf's multiverse one, and Data's dream one I'm struggling to think of anything memorable.

EDIT: apart from Sub Rosa being memorably terrible of course.

[Wonderful Butternut]

Nah, S1 and 2 can be excused as they were finding their feet (and besides the latter has more great episodes amongst the mediocrity), and 3 is just far better in all respects. The step up in quality, visually and in the writing and directing, in season 3 really is remarkable. Feels like it was done years after season 2. The last season though... it just bumbles along aimlessly. Aside from the genuinely great finale, Worf's multiverse one, and Data's dream one I'm struggling to think of anything memorable.

EDIT: apart from Sub Rosa being memorably terrible of course.

Gambit and The Pegasus are in there too. They're both good.

[the hum]

Gambit and The Pegasus are in there too. They're both good.

Ha yep, shouldn't have omitted The Pegasus, seeing as I listed it as a favourite earlier in this very thread. Gambit is dull though.

[Nobody Soup]

Nah, S1 and 2 can be excused as they were finding their feet (and besides the latter has more great episodes amongst the mediocrity), and 3 is just far better in all respects. The step up in quality, visually and in the writing and directing, in season 3 really is remarkable. Feels like it was done years after season 2. The last season though... it just bumbles along aimlessly. Aside from the genuinely great finale, Worf's multiverse one, and Data's dream one I'm struggling to think of anything memorable.

EDIT: apart from Sub Rosa being memorably terrible of course.

I've been rewatching season 7 in the background and I'd say the one with "moussaka" or whatever, an alien artefact beams loads of mythological personalities into data and transforms the ship into temples and swamps, was actually worse than sub rosa. And I'm Scottish and so on top of sub rosa being shit it was also personally offensive.

There's some really shit writing in season 7.

"its not like Dan to commit suicide."

[Malcy]

It's quite well known that Rasmussen in S5's 'A Matter Of Time' was written for and supposed to star Robin Williams, but on a recent VOY panel Ethan Phillips who played Neelix had this to say about him.

It was about the third season. They finished my makeup around 7. I was going over to Stage 16 where we shot the cave scenes. I walked down the long alley between the stages. As I turned the corner I could see way up the other end of the alley another person walking towards me. It was just sunrise. We got closer and closer. We're about 10 feet from each other, and I realize it's Robin Williams, who was on the lot doing The Birdcage. He sees me and goes, 'Oh my God, Mr. Neelix!' Then he does this whole routine about what it's like to be a chef in outer space. 'The eggs are floating, the pancakes are getting too big!', a Robin Williams schtick. I had a private performance for like a minute and it was really funny. Then he came up, gave me a big hug and said, 'I love your character, sir.' Such a sweet, sweet man. I'll never forget that.

Such a shame we never got Williams in Trek, he was a big fan.

https://trekmovie.com/2021/01/27/deforest-kelley-and-robin-williams-the-star-trek-voyager-cast-on-the-guest-stars-who-got-away/

[Ambient Sheep]

That's lovely.  I've never understood the hate for Neelix.

[Malcy]

Bit early for a Prodigy thread so thought I'd bung this in here. Okona from the TNG ep The Outrageous Okona is coming back in Prodigy.

https://trekmovie.com/2021/02/17/billy-campbell-talks-reprising-and-redeeming-his-okona-character-on-star-trek-prodigy/

[dr_christian_troy]

Bit early for a Prodigy thread so thought I'd bung this in here. Okona from the TNG ep The Outrageous Okona is coming back in Prodigy.

https://trekmovie.com/2021/02/17/billy-campbell-talks-reprising-and-redeeming-his-okona-character-on-star-trek-prodigy/

I like this idea a lot. Essentially it seems like they're creating a "Captain Jack"-style character for a (potential) younger generation of Star Trek fans, and rather than creating a new character they've been able to go back to the very large mythology well and find both an original character (and the original actor) to proceed. Nice to see.

[kalowski]

My watch through with the kids has reached Best of Both Worlds, which I hope we get to watch tonight. I'm properly excited.

[Blumf]

Bit early for a Prodigy thread so thought I'd bung this in here. Okona from the TNG ep The Outrageous Okona is coming back in Prodigy.

Did think he'd be a good basis for a look outside the Federation/Star Fleet. You could have a lot of fun with that character whilst still being able to hit some sombre notes.

[Mr Trumpet]

I've been rewatching season 7 in the background and I'd say the one with "moussaka" or whatever, an alien artefact beams loads of mythological personalities into data and transforms the ship into temples and swamps, was actually worse than sub rosa. And I'm Scottish and so on top of sub rosa being shit it was also personally offensive.

There's some really shit writing in season 7.

"its not like Dan to commit suicide."

Masks is a fantastic episode, resolving a crisis using the soft sciences rather than made-up STEM. My favourite stories are the ones where they make contact with some sort of alien intelligence and it's all just as weird and mental as it would be IRL

[Mobbd]

Masks is a fantastic episode, resolving a crisis using the soft sciences rather than made-up STEM. My favourite stories are the ones where they make contact with some sort of alien intelligence and it's all just as weird and mental as it would be IRL

Nicely put. I love a defense of Masks and this is a good one. I like Spiner getting to do his Spinering, and what you said is on the money too. I don't love Masks but I wish people wouldn't wheel it out automatically as a 'worst episode'. It's more imaginative and eventful and interesting to look at than almost half of Voyager. And I like Voyager!

[Mr Trumpet]

It's a Joe Menosky episode. Easily my favourite Trek writer. Wrote for TNG, a little bit of DS9, a whole lot of Voyager and one episode of Discovery. Always good for high concept or bizarre storylines.