Author Topic: Star Trek - The Next Generation  (Read 8010 times)

Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #90 on: March 09, 2020, 01:26:45 PM »
I think for now I'm going to continue exclusively with TNG, then go back to Voyager. Is it an issue if I watch DS9 after Voyager?
Later Voyager refers to something Maquis-related that happens in DS9. There's also a throwaway mention of DS9's overarching plot at some point. It's not an issue unless you're majorly invested in the Maquis and know nothing at all about DS9. Other than that, the Voyager pilot spends about five minutes aboard DS9 and features a cameo by a DS9 character but not in a way that will jar.

dr_christian_troy

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #91 on: July 04, 2020, 09:09:39 PM »
I’m now on Season 7 of TNG. To a point, it’s a very different beast from the early seasons - and mostly in a good way. Riker seems to be keeping his space cock in his onesie a lot more these days, Picard continues to have some good meaty episodes, not too many Troi episodes (and the one with her mum and the dead sister wasn’t too bad), Worf remains mostly confused but I enjoy the passion behind the Klingon mythology, LaForge still a bit underused, Data gradually losing (or finding?) his mind, etc.

The Cardassian episode with David Warner was a good’un. I was hoping he would pop up again but apparently he doesn’t.

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #92 on: July 04, 2020, 09:20:55 PM »
Also a lot of the aliens have sideburns

Malcy

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #93 on: July 04, 2020, 11:01:43 PM »
Series 7 gave every main character a good story I felt. The  series was about family stories which is fitting because that's what they had all become.

David Warner's guest appearance is one of the best in the whole series. Stewart said he done a lot of research into prisoners of war to prepare for the role. It's a great performance.

I'm up to the Animated series on my rewatch. Will be starting a TNG rewatch next month. Looking forward to it as there's some episodes I haven't watched in years.

This channel has been uploading Intakes. Outtakes edited back into the episodes. Some really good ones.

https://youtube.com/user/powellr711

purlieu

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #94 on: July 05, 2020, 12:03:24 AM »
The tiny glimpse of knackered Riker in the Borg overrun universe is ace.
Staggeringly bleak and yet somehow hilarious at the same time. Really a peak TNG moment.

My girlfriend and I have been doing an episode a day (ish), starting with TOS, for just over a year now, and are currently midway through TNG season seven. There's a definite shift away from classic-style stories (of which they've evidently run out) to just really weird psychedelic stuff: Worf shifting through universes, Data's nightmares, Picard and the Pirates, Dr. Crusher fucks a ghost. It's an entertainingly odd series, but absolutely the right time to bow out. And of course it ends on one of the show's best stories.

The first two seasons get a bad rep, and the stories are frequently pretty anonymous Trek-by-numbers fare a lot of the time (not to mention the uniforms looking terrible), but they still have some really top moments. I like The Measure of a Man a lot, and Q Who is possibly my favourite episode: the way it all just goes to shit as soon as they're shot across space and Picard has to beg Q to send them back to Federation territory. Incredible TV.

Picard is probably the best character in any TV show ever. Patrick Stewart just owns the screen whenever he's on, be it his astonishing tortured performance in Chain of Command or the wonderful way you gradually see the less stuffy side of his character in the later seasons, when he's trying his hardest to get out of an Admiralty dinner and such.

Data is generally brilliant, although the varied writing does sometimes make his character and overall arc a bit all over the place. An episode like Data's Day, though, is superb.

Troi's character is really butchered as it goes along, she starts off well but becomes a chocolate-loving damsel in distress far too many times in the later seasons. Her psychological advice is almost always really terrible Freudian shite as well. That said, I always love when Lwxana appears. Majel Barrett and Patrick Stewart's chemistry is worth it alone.

Ro Laren should have become a regular, at least as regular as someone like O'Brien (who I haven't seen in ages, thinking about it, have him and his family fucked off to DS9 already?). Michelle Forbes is great and she added a much-needed touch of tension to an otherwise very chummy show.

Worf starts as a fairly uninteresting character, but has the most interesting growth of anyone on the show I think. By season four he's really one of the most enjoyable characters, and in some ways his fish-out-of-water humour is better than Data's. His and Troi's budding romance is one of my favourite inter-crew relationships.

LaForge is likeable generally, but they don't do much with his character other than making him a mild incel at times.

It's also one of the funniest programmes I've ever seen. I laugh more often than a lot of sitcoms.

Favourite 25 episodes, in broadcast order:
The Measure of a Man
Time Squared
Q Who
Deja Q
Yesterday's Enterprise
The Offspring
Sins of the Father
Best of Both Worlds
Family
Data's Day
The Nth Degree
The Drumhead
Darmok
Disaster
Cause and Effect
I Borg
The Next Phase
The Inner Light
Schisms
Chain of Command
Tapestry
Lessons
Phantasms
Parallels
All Good Things


Next month we'll be starting on DS9. I remember hating it as a kid, but I'm looking forward to it now - not only as I've heard many good things of its story as it develops, but also because it'll be nice to have some unfamiliar '90s Trek to watch. Then Voyager, Enterprise, the Kelvin Timeline films and the recent series. I'll probably push on to the end, although I don't doubt my girlfriend will give up at some point (probably Voyager).

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #95 on: July 05, 2020, 12:34:41 AM »
Ro Laren should have become a regular, at least as regular as someone like O'Brien (who I haven't seen in ages, thinking about it, have him and his family fucked off to DS9 already?). Michelle Forbes is great and she added a much-needed touch of tension to an otherwise very chummy show.

DS9 started around season 5 of TNG, I think, so O'Brien left the Enterprise-D at some point that season. Forbes decided against becoming a Star Trek regular. They approached her to reprise Ro Laren in DS9 (she'd have been there instead of Kira), but she turned it down.

LaForge is likeable generally, but they don't do much with his character other than making him a mild incel at times.

He also gets a secondary role as 'everyone's friend'. The android that doesn't need to socialise? Geordi becomes his friend. The Borg separated from the collective? Geordi becomes his friend. The shy engineer who spends most of his time jacking off[1] in the holodeck? Picard practically orders Geordi to become his friend.
 1. Possibly literally

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #96 on: July 05, 2020, 12:35:22 AM »
...at least as regular as someone like O'Brien (who I haven't seen in ages, thinking about it, have him and his family fucked off to DS9 already?).

Yeah, ages before, during S5 I think, not sure though.


Next month we'll be starting on DS9...

The first season is pretty dry & ropey (like early TNG but less so), but it soon becomes really good.

There are some vague attempts at crossover eps between TNG S5 and DS9 S1 and so on, but none of them are really important.  The BBC were actually kind enough to arrange their scheduling so that they showed them (in their 90s BBC2 6pm Weds & Thurs slots) with the overlap correctly matched up.

The best crossover, of course, is the DS9/TOS one. :-)

Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #97 on: July 05, 2020, 01:23:17 AM »
Have been watching TNG repeats on Horror channel.  Realised I dislike nearly all of the main characters (!!!) especially the totally unbelievable Worf (ridiculous clown), nice guy Geordi (clearly an omega rather than alpha male), Troy (where does one begin?), and totally pointless intergalactic bartender Guinan.  Q is an absolute pain in the arse too, won't watch any episodes with him in - it just descends into pantomime.  If it wasn't for Riker, Data (when he's not trying to develop a sense of humour), Lieutenant Reginald Barclay (brilliant!) and some good storylines I'm not sure I'd bother.  Ensign Ro Laren (sereis 5, 6, 7) is probably my overall favourite character of TNG.

Standout TNG episodes for me included: 11001001 (Series 1/Ep. 15); Night Terrors (4/17); Schisms (6/5); Frame of Mind (6/21); Eye of the Beholder (7/18).

Out of curiosity I had planned to watch only the first epsiode of Star Trek: Enterprise when repeated on Horror in 2018, but immediately got hooked for the wrong reason... the lovely, ice cool vulcan T'Pol played by the (then) stunning Jolene Blalock.


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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #98 on: July 05, 2020, 08:37:18 AM »
Maybe you just don't like TNG.

dr_christian_troy

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #99 on: July 05, 2020, 10:55:55 AM »
Dr. Crusher fucks a ghost.

I’m on this episode now. Bloody hell.

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #100 on: July 05, 2020, 11:14:53 AM »
I’m on this episode now. Bloody hell.

"Dinnae light that candle"!

dr_christian_troy

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #101 on: July 05, 2020, 02:03:04 PM »
After the Lower Decks episode, I decided to pop back into the Enterprise pilot. What’s up with all the sweaty greasy nude close-up shots in that scene with T’Pol and Tripp? Also, what the fuck is up with that Bryan Adams-90s-guitar-cheese theme?

I like Phlox though - his optimism is mostly creepy and sinister, which makes him far more interesting than I expected. Still undecided if he is less or more tolerable than Voyager’s Neelix.

Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #102 on: July 05, 2020, 03:43:16 PM »
There was a T'Pol/Tripp shower scene too.  Attempted ratings boosters?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRRE9zA1C5Q

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #103 on: July 05, 2020, 04:20:10 PM »
Berman had a big thing for big tits, apparently (see also, Seven of Nine)

https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/525q85/terry_farrells_departure_has_anybody_else_heard/.

Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #104 on: July 05, 2020, 04:33:18 PM »
Wow I didn't actually know Berman was such a dick.  Even Wil Wheaton posted in the comments there confirming that he left TNG because of him.

Kind of sours the history knowing why those who left did so.

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #105 on: July 05, 2020, 04:42:31 PM »
Seen people wanting him back, though.

Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #106 on: July 05, 2020, 04:52:11 PM »
Count me as one of the "never understood the hate for Wesley" crowd tbh.  But I was (am) about Wil's age.

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #107 on: July 05, 2020, 05:01:13 PM »
It was nice to see Wesley pop up in the TNG Season 7 episode Parallels (the one which also includes the funny/disturbing moment mentioned above, where alt-Riker declares WE'RE FUCKED and gets blown up in the process).

dr_christian_troy

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #108 on: July 05, 2020, 05:02:45 PM »
Also, is Tripp the shagger of Enterprise in the same way that Riker is in TNG? I'm getting that impression pretty quickly.

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #109 on: July 05, 2020, 05:05:02 PM »
Also, is Tripp the shagger of Enterprise in the same way that Riker is in TNG? I'm getting that impression pretty quickly.

Not as far as I can remember.

Apart from the mPreg episode he just shags T'Pol in one of the most cringeworthy bits of writing ever in Star Trek

Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #110 on: July 05, 2020, 06:02:34 PM »
Wow I didn't actually know Berman was such a dick.  Even Wil Wheaton posted in the comments there confirming that he left TNG because of him.

Kind of sours the history knowing why those who left did so.

If we're naming Star Trek creeps, Maurice Hurley on TNG is another prime offender. It's not a coincidence that Gates McFadden was fired after Season 1 and then re-hired after he'd left.

Berman's excessive influence over Enterprise(the one series he had a large degree of creative input on) is widely regarded as the reason for that show being such a dog's dinner.

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #111 on: July 05, 2020, 10:52:47 PM »
During the first two seasons, Gene Roddenberry had alienated most of the old guard from TOS with whom he had kept in touch to develop Phase II then TNG. After The Motion Picture went over budget and turned out to be a miserable experience for everybody involved (he had also developed a coke habit), he lost control of the film franchise, and he was obsessed with staying in charge of the new show. So, he got rid of anybody who could take the showrunner's helm. His writing skills had also taken a massive dive, and then, he got a series of mini strokes that left him much weakened.

As he couldn't visit the writing room and the sets frequently, people like Maurice Hurley had more opportunities to take decisions. And Roddenberry would also ask his personal lawyer, Leonard Maizlish to spend time there, and to take some initiatives in his name, which turned out to be a creative disaster, as the guy was no writer. He would also spy on people like DC Fontana and report to Roddenberry.

By the end of the second season, Maizlish was already banned from studio lot, and Paramount confronted Roddenberry about his health, asked him to take a backseat and anointed Rick Berman to be the new showrunner. Berman was a rather consensual choice, a Paramount guy that Roddenberry didn't hate.

Regardless of his many flaws that you have mentioned here, Berman was smart enough to pick guys such as Michael Piller, let outside writers send spec scripts to them, which ultimately allowed them to build a new writing room filled with good writers. Then, he didn't really have a proper vision for the franchise, and never had a ton of ideas, especially bold ideas, something that was obvious on the four TNG films or Voyager, and he doesn't seem to be somebody you'd like to spend much time with. But I also have to admit that he was skilled enough to continually keep the franchise in production during 16 years, making him responsible for most of the Star Trek material we have.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #112 on: July 05, 2020, 11:18:23 PM »
Has anyone linked Renegade Cut's video essay "Berman Trek" yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeSz2gW8IsE

Malcy

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #113 on: July 05, 2020, 11:23:37 PM »
Shatner's Chaos On The Bridge is a great watch for the early era of TNG. Madness behind the scenes.

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #114 on: July 06, 2020, 05:59:08 PM »
I found this through an older CaB thread, but having now read through the entire strip to date, it's lovely and very silly - Chief O'Brien At Work.


dr_christian_troy

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #115 on: July 06, 2020, 09:11:15 PM »
A few recent Season 7 notes:

- Thine Own Self: If anyone could take the scene where Data lifts the anvil and then when he’s told to put it down can then make it looks like he just puts it back down on the foot of the guy it fell on and end it abruptly with the guy going ARGH, I’d be eternally grateful.

- Masks: Apart from displaying further range of Spiner’s talents, is it me or was the plot utter bollocks?

- Eye Of The Beholder: there’s a massive indication that the creepy bloke is the murderer and then they do nothing with it?

- Genesis: Who knocked up Spot? Edit: Oh, someone asks that. Also: nice to know that Riker is back to his shagging ways, opening the episode with a sex injury. Plus most of the cast in this episode seem drunk.

purlieu

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #116 on: July 06, 2020, 09:46:19 PM »
Force of Nature today - I do enjoy a good weird space/time thing in space story, but crikey the first ten minutes of this were evidently written because the main story ran short, weren't they? Almost nothing happens for ages, I was beginning to think it was going to be a Data & Geordi character episode. Slightly heavy handed message in it, but it's quite bleak that it's more relevant than ever. I loved the way Picard said "warp 5" with utter disbelief at the stupidity of Starfleet bureaucracy.

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #117 on: July 07, 2020, 11:47:56 AM »
Who knocked up Spot?

nice to know that Riker is back to his shagging ways, opening the episode with a sex injury

I like it when the mystery is solved right away

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #118 on: July 07, 2020, 07:22:50 PM »
Picard is probably the best character in any TV show ever.
Agreed. It doesn't get the credit it deserves because it's in an episodic sci-fi show.

Ro Laren should have become a regular, at least as regular as someone like O'Brien (who I haven't seen in ages, thinking about it, have him and his family fucked off to DS9 already?). Michelle Forbes is great and she added a much-needed touch of tension to an otherwise very chummy show.
I wish Michelle Forbes would have stuck around. She'd have made DS9 more interesting, I think.

But feel free to take these opinions with a pinch of salt as I wish they'd kept Dr Pulaski in the show past season 2.

dr_christian_troy

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Re: Star Trek - The Next Generation
« Reply #119 on: July 08, 2020, 12:57:15 AM »
Why is it that in “All Good Things” when Picard is in the vineyard and he shouts “I want to see Data” it made me well up a bit?

Oh actually...any moments in the final episode in which Picard looks at Data in any scene is making me feel strangely emotional.

Additional edit: Crikey. The final episode, all in all, left me in a variation of bits. I’m vaguely pleased to have now seen the entire series. Weighing the options, I think I’ll crack on with DS9, then Voyager. Enterprise, Discovery and the original series (which I have seen before but a very long time ago) can wait for now.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 02:24:23 AM by dr_christian_troy »