Doctor Who Series 12B: The Timeless Chibnall (Xmas special & pre-Series 13 chat)

[pigamus]

I thought having the Doctor who Christmas special be based around a prison break wasn't a bad idea. Sort of an allusion to that idea that we all watch The Great Escape on Christmas.

Disappointed in Chibbers but I guess it's really a "fool me x times, shame on him. Fool me x+1 times, shame on me" situation.

Well it is a good idea, it was called Heaven Sent wasn't it

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Well it is a good idea, it was called Heaven Sent wasn't it

that wasn't a Christmas Special, but yeah


there was also a bank heist episode that wasn't a Christmas one.  it was called bank heist non-Christmas ep

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there has never been a Christmas episode with a frog on or near a chair



get on it, chibborine

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They should have all or at least most Christmas episodes set near a chair, in a bank or prison, with a frog to hand


I'm not talking about just doctor who.  I'm talking also about royle family, one foot in the grave, the snowman - all Christmas episodes of otherwise non-Christmas shows


when it gets dull:  show the frog

[Mister Six]

Has anyone encountered anyone praising Chibnall%u2019s writing and showrunning since he took over Doctor Who?  Either on the internet or real life?


I%u2019m trying to imagine someone reading this thread and finding it disagreeable, but I can%u2019t really manage.  I just picture them thinking %u201Cwell, he%u2019s not that bad really%u201D until they read something like %u201CChibnall is an objectively shit human being who should have been aborted%u201D and their face does a kind of %u201Cyeah, fair enough%u201D shrug.

The Doctor Who Facebook groups I'm in have people who enthuse about the Timeless Child "twist" and get very annoyed with the chorus of moans after each new episode, bit it's hard to tell what's just delusional passion for the show and what's them being a bit thick/easily entertained by colourful lights and interesting sounds.

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Chibnall%u2019s

fuckin covids

[Deanjam]

there has never been a Christmas episode with a frog on or near a chair

Yes.

[Deanjam]

The Doctor Who Facebook groups I'm in have people who enthuse about the Timeless Child "twist" and get very annoyed with the chorus of moans after each new episode, bit it's hard to tell what's just delusional passion for the show and what's them being a bit thick/easily entertained by colourful lights and interesting sounds.

I don't do facebook as I'm not entirely mental, but the Who discussion on Twitter has dropped off massively over the last few years. Now, if I'm honest, I'd say it started to slip before Chibbers took over, but after a brief boost of lady-Who discussion, it's back to no one seems to care one way or the other. What's the saying about things ending with a whimper not a bang?

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Yes.

yeah but one of its eyes is covered up so how does it count


only odd numbers i suspect

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What's the saying about things ending with a whimper not a bang?

"Don't put your hands down the front of your panks
unless you expect to be doing some wanks."

[Spoon of Ploff]

Has anyone encountered anyone praising Chibnall's writing and showrunning since he took over Doctor Who?  Either on the internet or real life?

The Verity podcast say lots of nice things about it... I think they have an underlying ethos to be positive about the show come what may, but I do think they're genuinely in favour of what he's been doing.

[Mister Six]

Blimey. Do they talk specifics in terms of stories and characters, or is it broadly supporting the wider social/political awareness?

[daf]

Probably a bit of overcompensating going on - as there are a few repulsive youtube channels dedicated to gleefully slagging it off on the spurious grounds that it's become too 'woke' - rather than any legitimate criticism of the half-arsed storytelling.

[Spoon of Ploff]

Blimey. Do they talk specifics in terms of stories and characters, or is it broadly supporting the wider social/political awareness?

They're just Dr Who fans chatting about the episodes. They don't go full on Elizabeth Sandifer or anything.

[Thomas]

Has anyone encountered anyone praising Chibnall's writing and showrunning since he took over Doctor Who?  Either on the internet or real life?

I've seen a handful of comments praising the Timeless Child reveal, but usually from a defensive position, in response to criticism.

Even if you liked the bare plot mechanics of Chibnall's storytelling (the Master is back; Yaz asked a question; the Doctor is the Timeless Child), I don't know how you could actually praise their execution. The characters don't react to plot points. Themes have not materialised.

Throughout series 11, not one of the three new companions seemed to care about who the Doctor was or where she was from. Graham finally pondered it for five seconds in series 12. The Doctor herself just went from A to B to C without any reflection - only a few placeholder speeches that text-to-transformer could probably improve. And then we suddenly get a Big Plot Point about the Doctor's identity.

In series 4, 9, and 10, the very concept of 'memory wiping' receives brilliant ethical and emotional development. In Spyfall, it makes a random return with zero resonance (rather like the Master, returning too soon and reset to Evil).

Then the Doctor met Ruth, a brand new secret Doctor, and opted not to ask any questions. For the next few filler episodes, the matter went unmentioned until it was required to briefly service a Big Plot Point again. It didn't touch the mood of the series at all.

When Gallifrey was re-destroyed, the Doctor did admittedly look sad for one minute, a Chibnallian redux of the arcs and character development that RTD and Moffat filled nine series with.

The huge Timeless Child revelation barely rippled the show's emotional countenance.[nb]Looking back at the reveal, it was so poorly executed that I'm wondering if Chibnall intends to pull the rug again, and reveal that the Master is actually the Timeless Child. I feel like I'm unfairly criticising him purely by taking The Timeless Children at face value. You couldn't write something that badly for real, surely?[/nb]

She was faced with genociding Gallifrey (again), and - in a morally flat moment of plotting - managed to get out of it by handing the job to an old man whose name no one (not even the people who liked the episode) can remember. Not exactly this, was it?

Maybe somebody out there enjoys these tweaks to the Doctor Who Wiki on a world-building level, but I'm not sure how you could get much emotional or thematic juice out of them.

[Thomas]

Double posting to add something positive without prompting the wrath of the Glitch.

One idea I do like is the Division (previously characterised as the CIA [Celestial Invasion Agency] in spin-off media). A secret department with a licence to interfere, plucking Time Lords from their own timestreams to conduct Season 6B-style missions.

Just a shame its onscreen canonization has been spawned from a story so flat.

[daf]

I'll give him this - that bit with the buried TARDIS was great! Also the fact it was a proper classic console room.

(Still waiting for 'The Dr Ruth Adventures' spinoff on BBC3 - give it to RTD!)

[frajer]

I'll give him this - that bit with the buried TARDIS was great! Also the fact it was a proper classic console room.

(Still waiting for 'The Dr Ruth Adventures' spinoff on BBC3 - give it to RTD!)

It was a lovely idea with some striking imagery (the TARDIS being excavated like a coffin was glorious) but it utterly fell apart minutes later once the dialogue kicked in. That's what I find most frustrating about the Chibnall stint - a lot of the ideas he is playing with could be done well, but he consistently fails to pull them off.

[M-CORP]

I like to imagine a version of that scene with a different outcome, where Ruth reveals herself to be a different Time Lord, before explaining the box is a TARDIS and that it used to belong to another Time Lord called the Doctor, but she died in a freak yachting accident, at which point said other Time Lord won the TARDIS in a galactic auction. The Doctor pulls a face and says 'What?' again because that's how people react to finding out they're going to die in freak yachting accidents. Probably. I haven't researched that, but I'm sure they do.

[Deanjam]

Forget all this talk of how shit everything is now. Has anyone made their Christmas tree look like a Dalek?

[daf]

finding out they're going to die in freak yachting accidents.

"Ooh, I love freak yachting accidents, I do! I remember getting stuck under one with Simon Le Bon . . . or was it Noah? [pulls scrunchie face] Always mixing those two up. Anyway, had to survive for 40 days chewing on a Unicorn's cock and balls until we rocked up on top of this mountain . . . Custard cream, anyone?"

[M-CORP]

Forget all this talk of how shit everything is now. Has anyone made their Christmas tree look like a Dalek?

Those are great. I feel very sorry for anyone who went to that effort only for the special to pushed back to Christmas Day AGAIN because The BBC DO NOT CARE ABOUT THEIR BIGGEST- Oh dear, that's probably not helping with the light relief from Chibnall, is it? Sorry.

[Mister Six]

Looking back at the reveal, it was so poorly executed that I'm wondering if Chibnall intends to pull the rug again, and reveal that the Master is actually the Timeless Child. I feel like I'm unfairly criticising him purely by taking The Timeless Children at face value. You couldn't write something that badly for real, surely?

I'm hoping Jo Martin is actually the next Doctor, and this convoluted load of old shite is Chibnall's idea of elegant misdirection.

[Mister Six]

Also that the Timeless Child shit is just a lie from The Master and will be thrown in the bin posthaste.

[lipsink]

Just realised Jo Martin was the prison official who talks to Scarecrow in 'Batman Begins'..



The Nolan Dark Knight trilogy is full of random Brits popping up (the guy from James, the date/rape Hollyoaks guy)

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Is she any good as an actor?  Her Doctor Who appearance couldn't show it.

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Forget all this talk of how shit everything is now. Has anyone made their Christmas tree look like a Dalek?

if you look very closely you can see that someone has done it there in that photo!  twice i think!

[Deanjam]

if you look very closely you can see that someone has done it there in that photo!  twice i think!

I feel a fool.

[Ambient Sheep]

Crossposted from General Bullshit, for those who don't go there much:

Just belatedly seen this.  Obvious yes, but beautifully done.

https://twitter.com/TheCraggus/status/1333519288238477322

(I really wish modern Who would use more of the sound effect than they do.  I love it so much.)

[Malcy]

It was stated a long time ago that all the Timeless Child stuff was going to be more complicated than first appeared and would be around for a while so I reckon there's still a few twists and turns to come from it.

Have to say this thread has become a bit boring with its constant Chibnall bashing. It's the same for any show runner mind you and I was usually at the front of the queue when it came to criticising Moffat. My interest in the show hasn't really dropped since Chibnall took over. It dropped massively during Moffat's era of shite arcs that he wrote himself into a corner with.

For me that whole era was boring crap with the odd moments of brilliance. I see praise being heaped on so many of his episodes like Listen which I thought was utter fucking shite. I think the Moffat ep I enjoyed that I remember most fondly is The Husbands Of River Song. The first time River seemed like a proper character and not just a smarmy know it all.

New Who has been on 15 years now. Of course it's going to be suffering a bit. And all this chat about Chibnall can't be arsed to get the episode on Xmas day. Give it a fucking rest for fuck sake. Who's to say that's his decision? Elsewhere I saw things like Chibnall is so useless he can't even give us a trailer yet. The thing was shot last year! I don't think Chibnall is the one in the editing suite and telling the BBC when a trailer should be released.

Who fandom is shit. It really is. Fugitive Of The Judoon is the most excited I've been watching an episode probably since Utopia. The surprises and twists making it enjoyable rather than 10 minutes into the episode wishing it would go by quicker so I could get a 20 second look at the next weeks.

I dunno, just really fed up with the constant misery and negativity in this thread. I post about Who in one other place and it is the polar opposite to here. People taking it for what it is and taking the positives from it.

This thread is getting more and more like a reject from that fucking awful Gallifrey Base or whatever it is these days.