Doctor Who Series 12B: The Timeless Chibnall (Xmas special & pre-Series 13 chat)

[Replies From View]

Based on both's Big Finish work, Sylv has pretty much stayed consistent (for better or worse) with his TV portrayal, whereas Colin has transformed his take on the Doctor to such an extent that they were able write a story 'The Wrong Doctors' which highlights both contrasting versions.

Yes I agree - the photos on that CD cover thoroughly convey the entire range of Colin Baker's acting talent.

"A fart smell over there."

"Oh and a fart smell over there as well."


All facets of his Doctor covered.  Tick.

[pigamus]

I genuinely like Colin's TV interpretation, especially now we've got so much time between it and the current show. He's not a likeable character, but he does give a fairly electric performance in every scene, and I think it's interesting to see a version of The Doctor that's a principled asshole. I liked Capaldi's version in his first year, for a similar reason. The Doctor doesn't always have to be especially likeable, just engaging. 

In any case, I personally prefer Colin's Doctor to Davidson, Whittaker, and McCoy, maybe even a couple of others.

I stand with Colin.

Oh, well if you like Colin that's fair enough - what tends to happen is that people think they were both shit but Sylv was worse, which always annoys me because he wasn't.

[Replies From View]

I stand with Colin.

Oh there's enough space is there?

[Replies From View]

I tend to agree with Eric Saward when he says that yes Peter Davison wasn't especially Doctory, but he was a sufficiently good character actor for there to be at least something there during his tenure.

Whereas what do you get with Colin Baker?  You'd get more expression by flexing the dried skin of an old rice pudding up and down like an anaemic trampoline.  Eric Saward didn't say this but he'd be correct if he had.

Colin Baker was lucky to have such a shit costume, as he always gets to blame everything on what he was wearing.  Mate you were just bellowing and stomping around, and occasionally you strained a crease into your forehead.  Unless your costume contained vast quantities of starch that constantly leached into your body and voice you have no excuse.

[pigamus]

And you'd think all that would get mentioned when people talk about the show going shit, but it's always Sylv that seems to cop it.

[Registering to lurk]

Sylvester McCoy is great. The "I wish I'd blown it up/Wicked" exchange at the end of Ghost Light is perfect.

Anyone who disagrees can die in a cellar full of rats. No offense.

[Replies From View]

And you'd think all that would get mentioned when people talk about the show going shit, but it's always Sylv that seems to cop it.

There's no contest.  I've seen Colin Baker's interviews of the time, and he comes across as both charming and eccentric, but he was never a good enough actor to embody his Doctor with these qualities.  People always fight to say the agreed characterisation, the direction and so on are to blame, but nobody in their right mind can sincerely argue that if his Doctor had ever presented a cheeky grin or air of mystery the directors would have stepped in and ordered retakes in order to render his Doctor more consistently shit.

By contrast there are many moments in McCoy's time where you see his Doctor having silly asides with Ace, and they are nearly always delightful.  They come across as being great friends whereas I never understood why Peri stayed with the sixth Doctor.

[Poison To The Mind]

Stockholm syndrome.

McCoy would have been my pick for worst prior to Whittaker. ...McCoy might be pretty panto at times, but at least he feels eccentric, alien, multi-faceted, and has a bit of gravitas.

McCoy is a charming loon who is almost entirely useless as a dramatic actor. Luckily, he was cast as a massive weirdo who doesn't behave in recognisable human ways, given seven of the best stories in the history of the show, and had the most compelling rapport with a companion since Jamie and The Trout were gay married in space.

(Aldred is far worse than Sylv at acting. Luckily, she was in six of the best stories in the history of the show, had the second-most compelling rapport with a Doctor ever, and played a character who was genuinely thrilling for nerdy children to watch onscreen. Hurrah!)

I find it hard to understand when people think that Sylv was worse than Colin. I think it's just that Sylv sticks in the mind more than Colin did.

I think it's mostly people who didn't watch and think "well it just got worse through the 80s right? They cancelled it in McCoy's first year, he must have really sucked," or who watched Time & The Rani and bailed out with their impressions set.

Or they were getting teenaged enough to think Colin's sneering and Saward's guns were juuust cool enough to keep watching, then were too embarrassed to see past Sylv's impishiness to latch onto his Machiavellian scumbum beneath.


(I'm a very casual listener but ime Sylv is v low value in Big Finish, audibly reading the script for the first time in the booth and pausing mid-sentence to flip pages, and Colin's rep as the Best Audio Doctor is well-earned. It helps that he's had loads of their best scripts (by Shearman and Fountain), but he really commits even on lesser material, and has determined the emotional and dramatic beats of a story before he arrives at the studio.

[frajer]

(I'm a very casual listener but ime Sylv is v low value in Big Finish, audibly reading the script for the first time in the booth and pausing mid-sentence to flip pages, and Colin's rep as the Best Audio Doctor is well-earned. It helps that he's had loads of their best scripts (by Shearman and Fountain), but he really commits even on lesser material, and has determined the emotional and dramatic beats of a story before he arrives at the studio.

I remember an interview with Baker on a Big Finish extra where he said he takes time to read all the scripts thoroughly prior to arriving at studio as he felt it was what any script deserved, although he was aware not all Doctors did the same. I think we all know who he was talking about.

Such a shame as McCoy can sometimes deliver the goods but it seems utterly random as to whether he'll deliver a decent or shocking performance. As you say, you can often tell he has no real idea what he's saying because he's reading it for the first time. Inflection and pacing all over the shop.

[The Roofdog]

That immersive theatre/escape room 'Doctor Who: Time Fracture'-thing will feature filmed segments from

Spoiler alert

David Bradley

[close]

and

Spoiler alert

John Barrowman

[close]

, I bet the kids will go FUCKING mental

[pigamus]

I didn't know that about Sylv and Big Finish. Sounds downright unprofessional to me, what a shame.

[frajer]

I didn't know that about Sylv and Big Finish. Sounds downright unprofessional to me, what a shame.

From what I've heard in the Big Finish extras, I think in the audio drama world there's different opinions as to how much prep should go into a role. Some actors seem to think it's entirely fine to read it "live" off the page without having given it a read beforehand. In the interviews a few Big Finish supporting actors have cheerily said that it's great not having to learn their lines.

Unfortunately I think in McCoy's case it does show, as he often completely misjudges the tone of a scene and does feel a bit unprofessional. If you're getting paid surely you'd at least give it a once-through to learn what emotional beats are required, even if you don't learn the lines.

[Replies From View]

(I'm a very casual listener but ime Sylv is v low value in Big Finish, audibly reading the script for the first time in the booth and pausing mid-sentence to flip pages, and Colin's rep as the Best Audio Doctor is well-earned. It helps that he's had loads of their best scripts (by Shearman and Fountain), but he really commits even on lesser material, and has determined the emotional and dramatic beats of a story before he arrives at the studio.

It's just a crying shame that he "determines" that his Doctor should be audibly wanking in all his spoken scenes.  I mean it's professional of him to reach this conclusion in advance (every single time), but still a bit of a distraction when you can tell the engineers are doing all they can to reduce the clipping.

[notjosh]

If we're discounting Big Finish work, then McCoy easily ranks above both Baker (C) and McGann, unfair a comparison as that may be. I'd take him over Davison too to be honest, for the aforementioned reasons of his natural eccentricity and charmingly theatrical demeanour.

[Replies From View]

Plus McCoy is a short man.  Not enough love is given to short men anyway, in any context, and for a short man it's harder work to command a room like the Doctor needs to.  Anyone who can tower over everyone, scratch their balls and calmly gain adoration whilst breezing through their lyrics frankly isn't putting the same amount of effort in.


Here you are - apparently Jodie Whittaker is the shortest of all, but I said short men anyway because I am sexist, so I am still correct:

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls072719656/

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

This is awful. Fucking hell.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/apr/29/actor-noel-clarke-accused-of-groping-harassment-and-bullying-by-20-women

[Alberon]

Ah bollocks.

Beyond the terrible allegations I always hate it when someone I like turns out to be a sexual predator.

[JamesTC]

Big Finish Mickey spinoff definitely not happening now.

Get in burping bin.

[Malcy]

This is awful. Fucking hell.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/apr/29/actor-noel-clarke-accused-of-groping-harassment-and-bullying-by-20-women

Only read a bit so far but fucking hell is right.

[VelourSpirit]

This is devastating. Sounds like a terrifying guy to be around.

[M-CORP]

Mickey the idiot.

Normally all for innocent until proven guilty but the sheer number of witnesses and the vague defences from lawyers are not encouraging signs.  Plus Noel's BAFTA speech did come across slightly.... for want of a better word, smug?

Fucking hell. And I liked Mickey Smith. I still do.

[Norton Canes]

Oof. If there was one prominent actor from the first season of the relaunched Doctor Who I'd have thought might end up on sexual misconduct charges...

[vainsharpdad]

Oof. If there was one prominent actor from the first season of the relaunched Doctor Who I'd have thought might end up on sexual misconduct charges...

[lipsink]

Yeah, that article makes pretty horrific reading. I watched both his Bafta speeches (2021 and 2009) and he's incredibly cocky/bordering on smug. After  reading the article though he just comes across as fucking demented. Hard to believe that people still get away with so much crazy shit even after MeToo.

[Alberon]

Oof. If there was one prominent actor from the first season of the relaunched Doctor Who I'd have thought might end up on sexual misconduct charges...

This is the second one accused from that first season. Bruno Langley[nb][/nb] was actually convicted of two counts of sexual assault back in 2017.

[Replies From View]

This is the second one accused from that first season. Bruno Langley[nb][/nb] was actually convicted of two counts of sexual assault back in 2017.

You know what, I had him down as a bit dodgy when I first listened to the DVD commentary for The Long Game.  To my ears he was being quite creepy towards Christine Adams - I can't place exactly why anymore, or anything he specifically said, but he stands out in my memory as being very unpleasant.

If you can get hold of it, listen to it again and see if you agree.

[daf]

I always hate it when someone I like turns out to be a sexual predator.

And if they're northern, that makes it even wo-o-o-o-o-rse

[Replies From View]

And if they're northern, that makes it even wo-o-o-o-o-rse

Good Alexi Sayle impression.

[vainsharpdad]

Not the main thing to take from this - but as a side issue, that's a fair whack of the Eccleston/Tennant Era never to be shown on TV again then.

[Ambient Sheep]

Yup.  Horrible news.