Doctor Who Series 12B: The Timeless Chibnall (Xmas special & pre-Series 13 chat)

[Replies From View]

She looks like someone Larry David would opt not to hold a door open for




Not that he should, obviously!!

[Johnny Yesno]

Little Miss Thirteen

She looked older, m'lud.

[Norton Canes]

Meanwhile, here's what The Doctor thinks when falling and being scripted by a competent writer

Meanwhile, here's what The Doctor thinks when falling and being scripted by another competent writer

Doctor Who and the Time War

[Thomas]

Lovely idea for the format, the

Spoiler alert

final pages of a Target novel

[close]

. Great title, too. I always love 'Doctor Who and -'. And some thematic similarities in there with Moffat's version (

Spoiler alert

the Moment condemning the War Doctor to survive, and the brass and oak of the device, as RTD notes

[close]

).

Interesting that RTD chooses to include his original protestations about depicting the end of the Time War:

I said well, yeah, no, but, isn't that best left to the imagination? If I write a script, it would be too real, too fixed, too canonical.

I think he must still feel that that the Time War was better left imagined and abstract, even if he ultimately enjoyed and admired Moffat's onscreen episode.

[Norton Canes]

Was The Moment mentioned in RTD's era then? Or is it just coincidence that he and Moffatt came up with the same name?

[Thomas]

It was mentioned in The End of Time - a High Council bloke says that 'the Doctor has the Moment'.

[Norton Canes]

Ah, right. Ta.

[Mango Chimes]

Bloody hell. That's a lot more hard sci-fi than I was expecting, but it's a contrast to Chibnall's, isn't it? Some lovely abstract stuff about the Time War. Always annoyed me that Moffat turned showed it as being just A War With Daleks, so the nonsense in there

Spoiler alert

about duplicate Earths used as bullets, shards of Gallifrey and Skaro, years being used as a weapon

[close]

was fantastic.

The line about the age of the Doctor is purely Davies voice and his own process for choosing the figure and it made me smile.

[Huxleys Babkins]

Spoiler alert

A volcano of thick, viscous energy cannons from his neck

[close]

I bet it does, Russ, you dirty old bollocks, I bet it fucking does.

[Ambient Sheep]

Hah, my first thought was also "Wait, what, RTD's Who mentioned The Moment?!" so it was nice to see that asked and answered so promptly.  Thanks, both. :-)

And yes, refreshingly hard SF.  Nice to see

Spoiler alert

The Nightmare Child

[close]

once more being something so inconceivable that you have to

Spoiler alert

shoot planet-sized bullets at it

[close]

, rather than just being

Spoiler alert

Davros' pet Dalek

[close]

.


EDIT: I'm usually the last person to ask this, but why are we using spoiler tags?  I guess Thomas' first post would have been visible to fast readers like myself before the link in the previous post could be clicked, so that's fair enough, but the rest of them? :-)

[Thomas]

Spoiler tags generate a subconscious sense of excitement. Fresh! New! Original content! Spoilers within!

Spoiler alert

Exclamation marks!

[close]

[Ambient Sheep]

Spoiler alert

:-D

[close]

[Thomas]

Bloody hell. That's a lot more hard sci-fi than I was expecting, but it's a contrast to Chibnall's, isn't it? Some lovely abstract stuff about the Time War. Always annoyed me that Moffat turned showed it as being just A War With Daleks, so the nonsense in there

Spoiler alert

about duplicate Earths used as bullets, shards of Gallifrey and Skaro, years being used as a weapon

[close]

was fantastic.

I love RTD's mad, impossible-to-visualise Time War, but I also think that Moffat's barn in the middle of the Gallifreyan outback is an elegantly simple, theatrical setting. It allows for some fantastic, touching performances. It's possible - and fun - to imagine the two visions into the same world.¹

RTD has expressed jocular confusion about the mechanics of 'disappearing' Gallifrey before. He laughed at the idea that the Daleks would all happen to shoot each other.

_{[1]
Nerd thought: the very grounded version of events we see in The Day of the Doctor might be metaphorical; the phantasmagorical real events translated into something visual and understandable. The barn scenes might actually have taken place somewhere more epic and weird than a quiet expanse of desert under a blue sky. We - and Clara, perhaps - just witness a simple, peaceful, stage-like version. The show allows for meta-technobabble like that, and the Moment is zipping them in and out of visions the whole time. We can excuse shoddy 1980s effects in the same way.}

[Malcy]

Sequel at 7.45 as well.

https://mobile.twitter.com/russelldavies63/status/1243153907339218945

[Thomas]

I wonder if it'll be set during that bit where the Doctor vanishes briefly, before reappearing to add that the TARDIS 'also travels in time'.

[Replies From View]

I think he must still feel that that the Time War was better left imagined and abstract, even if he ultimately enjoyed and admired Moffat's onscreen episode.

I don't think that enough was shown of the Time War for us to feel it was ruined in its depiction.  Everything in your imagination should still be there.


Edit:  just caught up with the thread and your follow-up post here sums up what I think, so cheers!

I love RTD's mad, impossible-to-visualise Time War, but I also think that Moffat's barn in the middle of the Gallifreyan outback is an elegantly simple, theatrical setting. It allows for some fantastic, touching performances. It's possible - and fun - to imagine the two visions into the same world.¹

RTD has expressed jocular confusion about the mechanics of 'disappearing' Gallifrey before. He laughed at the idea that the Daleks would all happen to shoot each other.

_{[1]
Nerd thought: the very grounded version of events we see in The Day of the Doctor might be metaphorical; the phantasmagorical real events translated into something visual and understandable. The barn scenes might actually have taken place somewhere more epic and weird than a quiet expanse of desert under a blue sky. We - and Clara, perhaps - just witness a simple, peaceful, stage-like version. The show allows for meta-technobabble like that, and the Moment is zipping them in and out of visions the whole time. We can excuse shoddy 1980s effects in the same way.}

[Thomas]

I agree, but it seems from his own comments that he liked the McGann-Eccleston transition when it was mysterious and unseen, rather than 'too real, too fixed, too canonical.'

Edit - cheers to your cheers

[mjwilson]

I don't think that enough was shown of the Time War for us to feel it was ruined in its depiction.  Everything in your imagination should still be there.

Except for the fall of Arcadia which was a bit crap.

Hadn't actually realised the watchalong was tonight, I assumed it would be Saturday again.

[Mango Chimes]

I love RTD's mad, impossible-to-visualise Time War, but I also think that Moffat's barn in the middle of the Gallifreyan outback is an elegantly simple, theatrical setting. It allows for some fantastic, touching performances. It's possible - and fun - to imagine the two visions into the same world.

Definitely. The barn I don't think I had a problem with, because that does feel ethereal and metaphorical as you say. It was more the stuff in the streets and the Doctor shooting his gun at a wall and Daleks exploding and the general bloke saying "oh no, they're approaching the citadel" that felt far too pedestrian and grounded for the last days of the Time War.

I suppose your approach still works, but it takes a bit more effort.

[Norton Canes]

So where's this Rose screening then?

Streaming. Not screening.

[Thomas]

Hafta find it yerself. Netflix or iPlayer if you can access them. I can't recommend any free streams, but get onto a chap by the name of Vimeo, he might be able to direct you.

[Ambient Sheep]

You find your own copy, in my case, Netflix.

[Thomas]

Every book on How To Write says don't start with the hero in bed, waking up. Hah! Write what you want!

I love little writerly tidbits like that from RTD, especially among the many prescriptive creatives demanding that you can only successfully create if you follow the Important and Proper Canonical Rules.

Hilariously he's also retweeted Graham Norton promoting Eurovision.

[daf]

For anyone wanting to follow along, here's Rusty's Twitter : https://twitter.com/russelldavies63

13m
I'm on the http://time.is website, pressing play at 19.00.00 exactly! #TripOfALifetime #DoctorWho #godhelpme
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5m
Ready..??? #TripOfALifetime
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5m
I CONFESS: some of these tweets are pre-typed and pasted in - though pasted in live, right now! - so I can tweet more.  Yes, MORE! It's Steven Moffat's advice, blame him. #TripOfALifetime
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4m
Best theme tune EVER
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4m
Every book on How To Write says don't start with the hero in bed, waking up. Hah! Write what you want! 
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3m
NOEL! I first met him on this London shoot, cos we'd offered the part while he was filming Auf Wiedersehen. First thing he said to me, 'I'm coming back in Season 2?' And I thought, oh, Season 2. Better start thinking about it!
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3m
Then, funny thing is, when I wrote Mickey out in Season 2, he was by the banks of the Thames. I must've made a link in my head.  Not consciously. I never realised that until TODAY!
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3m
Would I still use the lottery money today? Has its time come and gone? Handy though 
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2m
The French dub is very funny, they kept the name Wilson. "Weeelsonne!"  #TripOfALifetime #DoctorWho
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1m
This is where Graham Norton interrupted. We laugh now but that night, we DIED. WE DIED. And I spent the whole episode waiting for it to happen again
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1m
And truly, professionally, for BBC One, that is a disaster. Years later, GN met the man in a party. "It was me!" Graham said, astonished: "And you weren't SACKED??" #TripOfALifetime
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39s
Oooh
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7s
Rose and the Doctor failing to self-distance
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[Malcy]

I love the face Eccleston makes when Rose asks who he is when they're walking past the garages. Looks delighted to be speaking those lines.

[daf]

14m
Long sequence, attack in the lift shaft, cut here
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13m
BEANS ON TOAST in the French dub is BOEUF BOURGUIGNON!
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13m
That bomb is concept designer Matt Savage's first design for TV
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13m
They flew me to Paris for 24 hrs for the French premiere. Got my ticket wrong. Stranded in Paris at midnight. Flew into Bristol at 4am. The BBC said, don't worry, we've got you a driver. It was a one-armed man 
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7m
No offence to one-armed men, but THAT was the trip of a lifetime #enoughaboutfrance  #TripOfALifetime
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6m
CAMILLE!!! I love Camille. My nickname for her is Kippers
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5m
Rose is in lockdown. I foresee EVERYTHING #MysticRuss  #TripOfALifetime
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4m
We rarely saw the Tylers' Flat in studio, it was too big, and our studio was too small. I often had to write it out. It was meant to appear in Parting of the Ways, but I had to sit Rose, Jackie, Mickey in that cafe instead.
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4m
Arianna is my favourite biit of dialogue
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4m
That backdrop behind Chris! We had to blur that in post-production  #
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3m
Everyone following? Say YES! #TripOfALifetime
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3m
HEAT magazine! we had to ask their permission. they were DELIGHTED!
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3m
This is pure Doctor Who. Mad and funny and about to be murdered
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2m
This sequence lasted a lot longer - they got trapped in the kitchen and realised that the Auton hand was attracted by sound. As it crept towards the sound of Jackie's hairdryer!! Cut, damn it!
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2m
When I wrote the novel, Jackie walked in and found them both on the floor and said "Rose Tyler... you tart!' WHY didn't I think of that in 2004?
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1m
Different flats, Cardiff. We worried so much about that... but you can.t tell, can you?
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1m
This scene shot in Block 2, when we realised we were underunning.  Do you know who can guess the length of a TV script? NO ONE.
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35s
WHAT ACTING, what a performance from these two 

[Norton Canes]

Hafta find it yerself. Netflix or iPlayer if you can access them. I can't recommend any free streams, but get onto a chap by the name of Vimeo, he might be able to direct you

Sorry, forgot, it's not everyone watching the same stream is it.

[daf]

8m
What's on Mickey's computer?!
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7m
Next 10 minutes or so... Jane Tranter was dying for more of the Doctor around here. Just a cutaway. Overlooking London. I said no, that's not the grammar of the episode. Now... sod grammar, she was right 
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7m
Jane tranter: the hero of Doctor Who. She decided it should come back. We owe her EVERYTHING.
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7m
LOVE Mark Benton. My old mate. He's watching!  #TripOfALifetime
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6m
Ahhh CLIVE.  Clive now appears in Big Finish audios, the Clive from the parallel world. 
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6m
So tempting to have Clive surrounded by photos of all 9 Doctors... but that's not the point of the scene. Too big a history for new viewers? I wonder. I think we were right. But... What d'you think?! #
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5m
I photoshopped that. Me.
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4m
OKAY.  Everyone burp when the bin burps. OUT LOUD.
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4m
I mean it. A great big burp worldwide. The bin burps, you burp.
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4m
Or what is a livestream FOR??  Burp with the bin!
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3m
Ready....
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3m
Any second now.......
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3m
BRAAAAP  #TripOfALifetime #DoctorWho #braap
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3m
The burp that went round the world
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2m
I'm laffin out loud now
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2m
I always wondered, how Real Mickey got from the bin to the Lair. The first draft had Auton bin men. Did that bin trundle slowly and secretly across London?! No, warp shunt technology zapped him there 
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[daf]

13m
My favourite thing? The table behind Rose. The man screams in this scene. The man, not the woman. 21st C Doctor Who!  Watch him, any second now...
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11m
Again, what acting. never mind the beautiful Tardis. Moments like the, we knew we had a good show.
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10m
For a long while, I thought: what if they run inside the tardis and it's just the size of a box? Me and my boyfriend laughed at that for weeks. Then I realised 2 middle-aged gays laughing wasn't necessarily a good idea
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10m
Dimension singular, like in Hatrnell's day
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9m
Coming up.... LONDON EYE. Key moment in deciding the tone of the script. I sat there for a long time thinking: too funny? Too daft? Too unbelievable?
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8m
LONDON EYE: I rarely discuss things before handing in a script but i asked Julie about the Eye. She said it made her husband laugh. So it was in! (The idea lasted longer the the husband.)
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7m
I wonder if the script says they held hands? Cant remember. I love it
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6m
I always wonder, who's on that bus? Do they know they were in Doctor who?!
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5m
THE LAIR! Big cut from this sequence. They find Mickey... but Rose whispers to him about the anti-plastic, and it turns out he's Auton Mickey. He tells the Nestene their anti-plastic plan, dissolves, real Mickey tumbles out of a cage
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5m
Shame to lose that. the only proper loss, i think.  Now the Nestene just sits there. Hero and villain should always be equals. And their confrontation should have surprises, reversals, tricks
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4m
BUT.  as a result, the entire thing has to fall on the Doctor's shoulders, and he's magnificent 
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4m
The SIZE of that location was very rare in  TV show back then. I was astonished. Everything is huge these days!
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3m
This location was filthy, Health & Safety nightmare!
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2m
First mention of the Time War
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2m
KIPPERS
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1m
Poor Clive!  This is my favourite tweet since joining Twitter...
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58s
I needed to kill Clive cos this show is daft and fun and larky... but, but, but underneath, steeped in death. The stakes are high in Doctor Who! New viewers needed to see that
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[Malcy]

Revenge Of The Nestene

https://youtube.com/watch?v=CpFoOkSDgnc&

Don't know why he couldn't have just gave us it to read ourselves.