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Doctor Who Series 12B: The Timeless Chibnall (Xmas special & pre-Series 13 chat)

Started by Blinder Data, March 03, 2020, 03:28:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

olliebean

Another Moffat short story (although it's pretty much just a statement of things we already know): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Hk9Va3ul8

Read by the no-longer-quite-so-young Amelia Pond.

C_Larence

Reading these retrospective watchalongs (thank you daf) inspired me to watch The Girl Who Waited, the first full episode I've seen since The Woman Who Fell To Earth (felt like a good time to stop watching, nothing to do with the doctor now being a woman, if that is still controversial). I chose that one because it always stood out in my memory as a great episode, even though all I could remember about it was the title and that it was sad. Happy to report that it is a great episode and is sad. The quarantine aspect of it was an added bonus. Is it thought of as a classic?

Thomas

I think it is. Series 6 gives us several standalone modern classics, even if its arc is ultimately underwhelming. The parts are bigger than the sum.

A Christmas Carol, my favourite festive ep. The opening two-parter is Doctor Who in its stride. The Doctor's Wife, A Good Man Goes to War, The God Complex. Great, assured stories, and all of them look brilliant, too. There's some filler in there as well, of course, but Series 6 always feel fresh and inventive to me, even if I find its overarching story inferior to Series 5.

daf

Quote from: olliebean on April 04, 2020, 07:57:34 AM
Read by the no-longer-quite-so-young Amelia Pond.

Yes that was lovely.

Here's a funny coincidence, I recently bought a box of Joni Mitchell albums, and have been listening to one each morning on headphones while I browse and sluice the web before I get up. This morning's album was Hejira from 1976.

Settling down to re-read the twitter thread, this floated into my nut : Amelia

Some of the lyrics sort of fit as well -
QuoteThe drone of flying engines
Is a song so wild and blue [!!]
It scrambles time and seasons [!!!]
If it gets through to you
Then your life becomes a travelogue
Of picture postcard charms
Oh, Amelia, it was just a false alarm
- - - - - - - - - -
I wish that he was here tonight
It's so hard to obey
His sad request of me to kindly stay away
So this is how I hide the hurt
As the road leads cursed and charmed
I tell Amelia, it was just a false alarm
- - - - - - - - - -
I pulled into the Cactus Tree Motel
To shower off the dust
And I slept on the strange pillows of my wanderlust
I dreamed of 747s
Over geometric farms
Dreams, Amelia, dreams and false alarms

H-O-W-L


Replies From View

Quote from: H-O-W-L on April 04, 2020, 07:47:26 PM
Did no-one think to shut the door?

If the current permeability of the TARDIS is anything to go by:  no.

Deyv

I am another who thinks Series 6 is really good even though the resolution of the arc is underwhelming. I've always loved the opening two-parter and even the pirate ship one isn't as awful as everyone says it is (the hotel one is worse than most people will admit, though). It's just the last episode that I felt actively frustrated with, and even then it had crazy ideas that I like and emotional beats that I recognised. It was just the last bit where they mention Trenzalore and The Eleventhbach Fall, it really pissed me off at the time. Seemed to me like they were saying, "this series' arc was underwhelming on purpose and there is a better one coming."

This is my passionate defence of series 6.

Mango Chimes

I'd be interested to watch those first three Moffat series again, because at the time I found the long plot threads really confusing in a boring way. When the final reveal happened, of the Silence being actually good (right?) blowing up the TARDIS (did they?) because of something (I don't remember) rather than the woman with the eyepatch (still not sure who she was) because something (I have no idea), it was just a huge shrug. I doubt it'll be more satisfying a second time through, but maybe Amy turning out to be a ganger might make more sense.

Malcy

Thought series 6 was shite. Every week I was disappointed and hoping for something better the next week. Never happened.

Replies From View

Quote from: Mango Chimes on April 05, 2020, 05:51:46 PM
I'd be interested to watch those first three Moffat series again, because at the time I found the long plot threads really confusing in a boring way. When the final reveal happened, of the Silence being actually good (right?) blowing up the TARDIS (did they?) because of something (I don't remember) rather than the woman with the eyepatch (still not sure who she was) because something (I have no idea), it was just a huge shrug. I doubt it'll be more satisfying a second time through, but maybe Amy turning out to be a ganger might make more sense.

I'm fairly sure that with the convolution undone, series 6 makes no sense.  Somebody must surely have done a youtube video showing fragments of that arc in their correct sequential order and I bet it's all just an incoherent madcap scheme really.  But I don't mind because apart from the revelations about River's origins, which I experienced as an attempt to bring the open-ended potential of that character to a swift end, I enjoyed it.

My sense is that everything in series 6 is quite without logical motive and is driven instead by the dramatic nature of endlessly deferring the reveal of the cause for any given effect.  It worked for me at the time, but I never bothered trying to work it out.  I enjoyed the ride while it happened, let's say.  Mostly.

H-O-W-L

Always super appreciated how Vale Decem ends on a triumphant, male-choir version of The Doctor's Theme (previously known to fans as the Time War Theme), after four seasons of it being sung by a solo female artist in heavy echo. You know what I mean -- whenever Nine reminisced about the death of Gallifrey it was a sombre, distant female solo vocalist, even during his regeneration but now circa End of Time it's this triumphant, bombastic, all-choir rendition that says he's really, fully, properly beginning to conquer it.

Absolute magic. Still makes me tingle.

daf

Next one will be The Doctor's Wife at 8pm on Saturday 11 April.

Tweeters pencilled in so far - Neil Gaiman & director Richard Clark


Thomas


Norton Canes

It's brilliant (should that go without saying?). Interestingly he writes the 13th Doctor in the same way as Chibnall, with the same personality, even using some of the same catchphrases. I didn't come away from it thinking of the character as any deeper or more complex. Of course by comparison to Chibnall's stuff, the plot and prose are light-years ahead. 

Norton Canes

Although when he mentioned
Spoiler alert
'Woo Hoo!'
[close]
the first thing I thought of was the Gatiss and Walliams 'Doctor Who pitch' sketch. 

Replies From View

Quote from: Norton Canes on April 08, 2020, 09:36:09 AM
It's brilliant (should that go without saying?). Interestingly he writes the 13th Doctor in the same way as Chibnall, with the same personality, even using some of the same catchphrases. I didn't come away from it thinking of the character as any deeper or more complex. Of course by comparison to Chibnall's stuff, the plot and prose are light-years ahead.

There must surely be a kind of rule book for writing any particular Doctor that has been put together by Chibnall and other writers have to carefully follow.  It's bound to exist.


What the fuck could it say??

Mango Chimes

I don't like him
Spoiler alert
giving the kid a specific disorder
[close]
, but otherwise it does seem he read
Spoiler alert
the current teams' two shite efforts at short stories
[close]
and thought he should show them how it's done.

One of Moffat's most blatant lies when he was running the show was that you don't write for a specific Doctor, you just write the Doctor. I assume this was whilst he was writing Capaldi and getting criticised for changing the character so much. Here he's nailed Whittaker's Doctor, in such a way as you think, ah that's really good, but something feels a bit... strange? What is it? Something not quite right, I can't put me finger on it... Come on, think! Woah, hold on... It can't be, can it? Is it a hint of sarcasm? Oh, brilliant: I love sarcasm, me.

Spoiler alert
"this strange, prattling woman"
[close]

Replies From View

It was during the audition process for one of them - must have been Matt Smith as I don't think Capaldi auditioned - when the theory was that you could pick any speech from any given Doctor and they would work for any incarnation, with unique twists coming mainly from the actor's own approach.

But yeah it's pretty much nonsense.

Mister Six

Dunno if there's a proper "Bible" for writing Doc 13 (probably, but I doubt Moffat was sent it), but I can imagine Moffat was very careful not to add anything that wasn't there originally. Which is a challenge in of itself.

VelourSpirit

Implying a child with DID would be a murderer if not for watching Doctor Who is quite a tactless Chibnallian blunder too


olliebean

Quote from: Norton Canes on April 08, 2020, 09:36:09 AM
It's brilliant (should that go without saying?). Interestingly he writes the 13th Doctor in the same way as Chibnall, with the same personality, even using some of the same catchphrases. I didn't come away from it thinking of the character as any deeper or more complex. Of course by comparison to Chibnall's stuff, the plot and prose are light-years ahead.

Yes, I reckon the reason the character is no deeper or more complex than she has been on-screen is because
Spoiler alert
he's deliberately writing her as nothing more than the character that has been seen on-screen. That's the plot. Within the context of this story, she's not a real person, she's literally just the TV character as realised by Chibnall and Whittaker.
[close]

Norton Canes


mjwilson

The Doctor's Wife at 8pm.
Ahead of that, a video message from Suranne Jones: http://youtu.be/4q9J2Y40HCU

Something else being released at 7.

Malcy

I was watching Save Me Too last week and Suranne Jones is on the phone to Lennie James's character.

He says something along the lines of "there's so much more to you, like there's more of you on the inside".

She says "Like the TARDIS".

Thought that was a nice little reference to the episode!

daf

Rory's Story - written by Neil Gaiman
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
MICHAEL SHEEN : @michaelsheen
NEIL GAIMAN : @neilhimself
RICHARD CLARK : @rclarkie
Twitter feeds combined link : #BiggerOnTheInside
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mjwilson


Malcy


daf

Part 1
Quote from:  The Doctor's WifeNEIL GAIMAN : I'm so grateful to @RattyBurvil for doing this. And to our special guest, too. I hadn't realised how much I missed Rory until I saw Arthur bringing him to life again...
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[director] RICHARD CLARK : Right. Kids to feed. Snake to feed. Dog to feed. Then I'll attempt to cast my mind back 10ys for ‪#BiggerOnTheInside
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NEIL GAIMAN : I spent a couple of hours last night rummaging through ancient drafts of The Doctor's Wife finding scenes that nobody's ever seen. The Beatles at Shea Stadium opening. The Zero Room. Things like that. And then screenshotting them.
- - - - - - - - - -
RICHARD CLARK : Right. Snake fed. Morning @neilhimself
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RICHARD CLARK : I haven't seen this in 10yrs. Interested to see what I'll remember.
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RICHARD CLARK : Feel strangely nervous. Trying to resist eating all the kids mini Easter eggs.
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MICHAEL SHEEN : Evening all!‪ #BiggerOnTheInside
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RICHARD CLARK : Great set.
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NEIL GAIMAN : This is so exciting! I remember describing the junkyard planet as The Totters Lane at the End of the Universe in the script...
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RICHARD CLARK : Loving seeing these guys again.
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[Chantelle] : Were you tempted to keep The Doctor's Wife in human form and have her as another character? @neilhimself
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NEIL GAIMAN : Not even for a moment. The episode only worked if it was just this once. The only time...
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NEIL GAIMAN : Right. So there were several versions of the opening scene with the Doctor receiving the Time Lord Message Box. When the episode was first written it was just The Doctor and Amy (no Rory) and here's the original. Never before seen scene: enjoy!




- - - - - - - - - -
NEIL GAIMAN : "Scrumptious little beauty" -- I'd been awed as a boy by the time lord message box thing in THE WAR GAMES...
- - - - - - - - - -
RICHARD CLARK : Biggest initial challenge was working out how to play The Tardis.
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MICHAEL SHEEN : That first bit of the theme gives me a thrill every time!
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NEIL GAIMAN : The idea that the Corsair had regenerated as men and women was something that turned up in a draft and I expected Steven Moffat to strikethrough. I was so glad he left it in, and look how it grew?



- - - - - - - - - -
NEIL GAIMAN : I just liked the idea that it eventually would double the number of potential people who could play the Doctor...
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RICHARD CLARK : It's fair to say that Suranne hadn't quite realised what a big deal it was playing the Tardis. Hours spent experimenting with how to captured the madness of living in all times at once.
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NEIL GAIMAN : Her first word is "Goodbye". That should have been a clue...
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[Laura Elliot] : 'biting's excellent, it's like kissing only there's a winner!' one of my favourite lines in anything ever @neilhimself
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NEIL GAIMAN : That's Steven Moffat's line! I loved that he put it in.
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RICHARD CLARK : Realising the world a big deal.
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RICHARD CLARK : The only clues in the script was that it was a junkyard at the end of the universe and the only scripted details was domestic rubbish.
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RICHARD CLARK : Decided that the planet should made up entirely of crashed space ships that had been sucked through from our universe - one layered on top of another.
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MICHAEL SHEEN : The brilliant Elisabeth Berrington played Cherie Blair first time I played Tony B in The Deal.
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NEIL GAIMAN : Elizabeth Berrington, who plays Auntie, is the only person in ‪#BiggerOnTheInside‬  who is in Good Omens, where she plays Dagon.
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MICHAEL SHEEN : Ahem....
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NEIL GAIMAN : No, Michael. She was definitely the ONLY character in both shows. I wouldn't just forget something like that, if there was someone else in both shows.
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NEIL GAIMAN : Nephew as an Ood was a budget decision. He was meant to be a patchwork creature, but we didn't have the money to make it. So I was offered anything we already had in stock. It had to be an Ood.
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MICHAEL SHEEN : Oooh it's me!!! ‪#BiggerOnTheInside
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