Doctor Who Series 12B: The Timeless Chibnall (Xmas special & pre-Series 13 chat)

[Small Man Big Horse]

Phone not letting me post pic but here's a better look at the new Dalek design.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaukLeXXkAAWTz9?format=jpg&name=large

Yeesh, that's beyond horrible, even worse than the Resolution Dalek.

[Old Gold Tooth]

Yeah I couldn't stand the spindly Dalek in Resolution but still least that was supposed to look like a scrapheap challenge.

They're mobile tanks driven by insane mutants, I don't know why anyone would think making it look like a stiff breeze would blow them over is a good idea.

[Kelvin]

From bean to cup, Chris fucks up.

[Blinder Data]

I wonder if you can get decent odds on Chibbers being the last showrunner of this run of Doctor Who, before it's put in cold storage for a decade or two. Everything about it screams fin de siècle.

[The Roofdog]

I wonder if you can get decent odds on Chibbers being the last showrunner of this run of Doctor Who, before it's put in cold storage for a decade or two. Everything about it screams fin de siècle.

A year ago I would've thought this was impossible but I'm beginning to think it might happen. The problem is there isn't anyone involved now who seems remotely able to take over, not even a beige choice like Whithouse or Gatiss, at the same time that Chibnall is driving the profile of the show into the ground, meaning no one external to it will want to touch it either.

[Thomas]

Yeah I couldn't stand the spindly Dalek in Resolution but still least that was supposed to look like a scrapheap challenge.

I liked the Resolution Dalek, but on the understanding that it was a one-off cobbled-together job, a rough attempt by a desperate, stranded octopus. I never thought it actually perfectly reflected the original design of the 'Reconnaissance Dalek' back on Skaro.

[Mister Six]

Phone not letting me post pic but here's a better look at the new Dalek design.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaukLeXXkAAWTz9?format=jpg&name=large

Has it been ill?

The skirt is too fiddly as well. Why bother? Were people crying out for a new, shit Dalek design?

A year ago I would've thought this was impossible but I'm beginning to think it might happen. The problem is there isn't anyone involved now who seems remotely able to take over, not even a beige choice like Whithouse or Gatiss, at the same time that Chibnall is driving the profile of the show into the ground, meaning no one external to it will want to touch it either.

I reckon the reason people didn't want to follow Moffat is because he's so fucking good, and they'd be worried about looking shit by comparison. If Chibnall leaves after the next series (and the show isn't cancelled after that), maybe the standards will have dropped low enough that everyone who previously turned it down will feel confident enough to give it a go.

As for if he'd go... I don't know if the BBC execs actually understand what good telly is - they let him do a second series of Torchwood, after all - so maybe they think this disastrous couple of seasons has been ace. Or maybe they know Whittaker is only there because of Chibnall, and they don't want to lose the first female Doctor before she's done her regulation three seasons. Really hope it's the latter, and they'll boot out Chibnall at the end of this one.

[Replies From View]

A year ago I would've thought this was impossible but I'm beginning to think it might happen. The problem is there isn't anyone involved now who seems remotely able to take over, not even a beige choice like Whithouse or Gatiss, at the same time that Chibnall is driving the profile of the show into the ground, meaning no one external to it will want to touch it either.

Furthermore - and I never thought I'd say this either - I would actually prefer for it to be cancelled now rather than further ruined in such fundamental and historical ways by Chibnall.


It's like trying to stop your home succumbing to dry rot by selling it and moving on, but I'd rather have that than watch it decay so interminably before my eyes.

[mjwilson]

I have to admit that when I first saw that picture I assumed that you were just joking. It's a real thing?

I guess maybe there's a plot reason for it, like there was in Resolution...

[Mango Chimes]

Dalek looks fine.

[Malcy]

I have to admit that when I first saw that picture I assumed that you were just joking. It's a real thing?

I guess maybe there's a plot reason for it, like there was in Resolution...

Apparently so. Rumour is that the special is about

Spoiler alert

a Dalek civil war. A black Dalek like Sec was seen at the Clifton Suspension Bridge filming so it could be that this redesign is another faction

[close]

.

[Ambient Sheep]

Someone on Twitter responded to that photo by posting a picture of one of those spiral-spring door-stoppers, and the words:

Looks like it's head will go *twang* if you flick it.

Good analysis.

[Replies From View]

They think it's incredibly groundbreaking to have a Dalek that doesn't have a person inside controlling it, and its spindly nature is all about emphasising and milking that fact.


If, in-universe, it is the same scrapyard Dalek from Resolution with tweaks, then it's acceptable.  If its improvised design has somehow led to a load of other Daleks digging around for scrap to compose themselves and they all look identical, then it's daft.



But to be honest I hated the conceit of it managing to pull itself together from earth scrap that uncannily happened to resemble Dalek fragments.  Like the sonic screwdriver being made of earthly materials that could be found in the vicinity of a 2017 shed, part of the point of these things is their alien technological nature.  Made from Dalekanium, that's why they are so impermeable!  ...Or some lead roofing, either is fine.

[Phil_A]

Furthermore - and I never thought I'd say this either - I would actually prefer for it to be cancelled now rather than further ruined in such fundamental and historical ways by Chibnall.


It's like trying to stop your home succumbing to dry rot by selling it and moving on, but I'd rather have that than watch it decay so interminably before my eyes.

I'm inclined to agree...put it on hiatus until such time as a someone with a lot of energy and fresh ideas is in a position to take it on. Don't just keep making Dr Who for the sake of more Dr Who, as we've seen the results of that.

To be honest I'd welcome another Wilderness Years era at this point, if it meant we got the equivalent of the New Adventures Mk 2 out of it (I realise this is highly unlikely, though).

[Replies From View]

Exactly.  He's giving the Doctor some expositional superhero backstory for absolutely no reason in only his second year on the show.  It feels like he's only just beginning with his clod-headed fuckery.

Everyone else running the show has avoided demystifying 'prequel' territory stuff like showing the face of a young first Doctor, and showing the Doctor and the Master in college together, so I reckon those are coming up in Chibnall's third and fourth years, amongst other things.

Just axe it before he can, please.

[Mango Chimes]

I'd be up for seeing Chibnall's boring vision of a Time Lord sixth form. Bring it on.

[Mister Six]

I'd be up for seeing Chibnall's boring vision of a Time Lord sixth form. Bring it on.

I reckon the next Xmas special, if the series makes it that far, will be about The Doctor silently watching her own past as a child at the Time Academy, in a kind of Harry Potter riff. There'll be a character who really wants to regenerate from a boy into a girl but some bullies are mean about it. Nothing much of note happens until a monster a bit like the troll in the first Harry Potter appears and young Doctor defeats it, then hitherto unmentioned Space Voldemort appears and vows vengeance by possessing The Master, kind of - but not really - explaining why he hates The Doctor so much. At the end The Doctor will talk to camera for four solid minutes about the importance of letting trans people be, while also saying that all views are valid, and maybe it's okay to buy books from people we disagree with.

Audience approval ratings plummet, but The Mary Sue publishes a review calling it "the most important and beautifully written TV episode since the finale of Steven Universe".

[Replies From View]

And as well as those things the episode features eight more random incarnations of the Doctor for absolutely no reason.


They won't add anything, they'll say a few words of exposition each and they will have the same written voice, like they could be anyone.  They will all have a police box but one of them will have POLICE BOX written in Chinese because they will be Chinese:  the Chinese Doctor, they will be known as.  And played by someone who isn't Chinese because Chibnall wants to assure us that The Talons of Weng Chiang follows a careful casting logic of some kind.

[Malcy]

Thought this was funny. Doctor Who cosplay on the Late Late Show with Tennant & Whitaker.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=65FUgIcuLTI&t=606s

[Malcy]

Not sure if I had heard this before but Tennant said when he appeared on the SJA that Nicholas Courtney was supposed to be in the episode as well until he took ill.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=HkXIRLSE48Q&t=0s

Such a shame that the Brig never got to meet any new Doctors.

Full HBO interview with Tennant, Smith & Whittaker.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=8kmyLeVOzp4

[Alberon]

Just saw that Dalek photo. Very first thought was that it's the daleK from Resolution in its proper armour. Doesn't look right though.

[The Roofdog]

Not sure if I had heard this before but Tennant said when he appeared on the SJA that Nicholas Courtney was supposed to be in the episode as well until he took ill.

Ah man. That particular dynamic would've been brilliant as well.

[Thomas]

That is such a shame.

I wish they'd been able to include William Russell in the fiftieth in some way; perhaps a gentle, touching scene like the Curator's. Ian is still connected to Coal Hill School, after all. Would've been great to see him enter the TARDIS again. Russell did at least appear in An Adventure in Space and Time.

[Malcy]

That is such a shame.

I wish they'd been able to include William Russell in the fiftieth in some way; perhaps a gentle, touching scene like the Curator's. Ian is still connected to Coal Hill School, after all. Would've been great to see him enter the TARDIS again. Russell did at least appear in An Adventure in Space and Time.

Yeah it's a shame they've never had him appear properly. If not in Who then SJA was a great place to have the Brigadier and if they weren't going to have Ian in the main show then Class, a show I forgot existed until yesterday, being set at Coal Hill could have had him appear.

Think Moffat dropped the ball in not having Ian appear when Clara was teaching at the school. The very first companion and the current. Both teachers at the same school 50+ years apart.

[daf]

He's been well served by the Big Finish Companion Chronicles / Early Adventures , and also appeared in their 50th Anniversay set The Light At The End - playing both Ian Chesterton and the First Doctor.

[Replies From View]

Think Moffat dropped the ball in not having Ian appear when Clara was teaching at the school. The very first companion and the current. Both teachers at the same school 50+ years apart.

Me too.

A cameo in the 50th anniversary story could have easily fitted, as it's the first story I think to show Clara working at Coal Hill.  Although I suppose Clara suddenly working there and having an Ian cameo at the same time could have appeared a bit contrived.  A few episodes later though in series 8 would have been equally lovely.  In fact I assumed it was in the bag right up until the end of Clara's time on the show.  It just seemed so obvious that it would happen.  And then it didn't.  And then when Class was announced I thought surely he's going to appear in this.  But he didn't.  :(

Definitely a missed opportunity for a loving nod to those first ever episodes.

[Thomas]

Although I suppose Clara suddenly working there and having an Ian cameo at the same time could have appeared a bit contrived.

If An Unearthly Child and The Day of the Doctor are both actually set on the 23rd November, Ian could've mused that he always makes an effort to visit the school on this particular date, just in case he spots a blue box. Apt enough anniversary fan service. Remembrance of the Daleks had a much cheekier nod (the TV announcement).

The special wouldn't have suffered with five minutes extra runtime to allow for Ian. It was shorter than your average two-parter, and I'm sure Moffat managed to write in bigger contrivances elsewhere without sapping flow or storyline.

Perhaps it wasn't a given that William Russell would be available, and so it was safer not to write him in. He was 88 at the time, after all, and preparing the anniversary special sounded like a chaotic job for Moffat (at one point having to waste time planning a story with no Doctors in it, due to contract complexities). Russell's appearance in An Adventure in Space in Time is only brief, and it wasn't necessary that the character be played by him.

On the other hand, SJA apparently managed to work around Nicholas Courtney's last-minute absence.

[Malcy]

Doctor Who & Star Trek both suffer from having planned episodes that in the end didn't happen for numerous reasons. It's especially annoying when you look at episodes that you didn't enjoy that much and realise something far better could have happened instead.

Even just small details that didn't happen. The Writer's Tale is a great book full of almosts and ideas. Would love to read a Trek version.

[BritishHobo]

I was proper gutted that they didn't get Ian back. It really did seem like such a no-brainer at the school. As has been said - even just ten seconds or so where they bumped into each other, although obviously I would have preferred forty-five minutes at the stsrt of them just chatting. Would have been so lovely.

[The Roofdog]

We're heading into Jodie Whittaker's third season without any media or fan speculation as to who's going to take over. At all. Is that because no-one gives a shit anymore or because she's going to be the first since Tom Baker to do more than three?