Daniel Kitson 2020

[notjosh]

Picking on someone in crowd of 500 is bullying, clear and simple.

Or it's having a bit of fun with people who have paid to do exactly that. It's pretty routine for comedians to make fun of audience members, and it's one of the things that makes live comedy exciting. Obviously there are nuances to it. If people have paid specifically to see one comedian, they may already be onboard with that comic's persona, and can adjust their expectations accordingly. I wouldn't be upset if Jerry Sadowitz called me a cunt, for example, but if Tim Vine did it with the same amount of vitriol I'd be seriously worried that I was indeed a cunt. [Ron Howard: "He was"]

As Poison to the Mind mentioned, Kitson frequently goes massively over the top with his reactions to audience members, but it's generally understood that it's all just a bit of cheeky fun, and he's mocking his own inadequacies as much as anyone else's. One of my favourite bits of crowd work I've seen him do was a brilliant riff on marathon times, which ended with him accusing someone in the audience of being a paedophile because they'd run it in less than 3 hours. I doubt anyone would have considered it bullying.

Again, I can't speak for the interaction you had, but from the way you've told the story it seems to me that had you engaged with him he would have been quite open about the fact that he has a childish curiosity about minor things going on in the room, which is entirely his own fault. Is it possible you just misread his tone?

[sutin]

To be honest, I think his tone was irrelevent. In fact, his tone was relatively friendly. He was needling me to interact with him when I made it very clear that I can't speak in front of a big crowd of people. The very thought of it fills with with the most terrifying anxiety, even though the room was practically in pitch black darkness (something I can't emphasize enough, it was weird as fuck). And I would never purposely go see a comedian that would make fun of audience members (just in case it might be me). On the little I knew about Kitson, I (wrongly) assumed he was not that kind of performer.

Look, some people might like that, but it's the lowest form of stand up comedy as far as i'm concerned. Unless you're responding to a heckle, leave the audience out of it, they're not the performers. Just my opinion on what I enjoy.

[sutin]

One of my favourite bits of crowd work I've seen him do was a brilliant riff on marathon times, which ended with him accusing someone in the audience of being a paedophile because they'd run it in less than 3 hours. I doubt anyone would have considered it bullying.

You're really turning me against Kitson with this stuff. I mean, seriously fuck that. If he called me a paedophile, i'd be out the door and wanting my money back.

[notjosh]

Yeah, his stand-up's not for you then. His theatre shows are very different beasts, so worth a listen/watch.

I'm sorry he made you anxious, but I guess we have fundamentally different ideas of what live comedy should be. For me it always comes with the possibility of audience interaction like that. In smaller clubs I think it would be weird not to do it, and it gives the whole event a frisson and a feeling that this is something unique and in the moment, rather than a scripted monologue. A lot of people sit in the front row with the hope that they'll get 'picked on' because they relish the idea of a conversation with the performer. Obviously it's down to the performer to judge when an audience member is comfortable engaging with them, but if it was pitch black as you say then he could easily have misjudged. Just seems like bad luck to me rather than evidence that it's 'the lowest form of comedy'.

[lankyguy95]

One of my favourite bits of crowd work I've seen him do was a brilliant riff on marathon times, which ended with him accusing someone in the audience of being a paedophile because they'd run it in less than 3 hours.

Properly guffawed.

[sutin]

Just seems like bad luck to me rather than evidence that it's 'the lowest form of comedy'.

I was very clear that I consider that my personal opinion and preference. I've never found comedians berating the audience funny, it's just anxiety-inducing (even when not directed at me) and mean-spirited. Before seeing Kitson I never considered for even a minute that he'd do that. The shows of his i'd listened to beforehand suggested a smart, thoughtful performer, not a Jerry Sadowitz call-an-audience-member-a-paedophile type.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I guess part of the problem is your sutins may struggle to gauge he isn't for them because he's built a reputation as a 'must see' comedian through maintaining a bit of scarcity - relatively few gigs that always sell out quick, quite in control of the work he puts out there (if at all, and often pulls it) and although not militant in the way Sadowitz is regarding recordings, is able to politely ask people don't make them freely available in a way that most people are at least respectful enough to share them out of sight.

[notjosh]

The shows of his i'd listened to beforehand suggested a smart, thoughtful performer, not a Jerry Sadowitz call-an-audience-member-a-paedophile type.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Kitson's ability to shift gears between eloquent melancholy and juvenile shenanigans is one of the things I enjoy most about his work.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I have to admit that I really struggle with comedians who do crowd work as a large part of their routine, some are amazing at it but sometimes it can be hideous (Lewis Schaffer being an example of both, one time I saw him he was on fantastic form, on another occasion it was the worst gig I've ever attended) and I prefer in general to see a comic perform tried and tested material rather than interacting with the audience. That's just me though, and I know many do enjoy it a huge deal, but one of my favourite gigs is Quantum Leopard in London where beforehand audience members are asked if they mind interacting with the comedians and if they don't they get a green sticker, but if they do they get a red one, and it's a system that works really well.

[sutin]

one of my favourite gigs is Quantum Leopard in London where beforehand audience members are asked if they mind interacting with the comedians and if they don't they get a green sticker, but if they do they get a red one, and it's a system that works really well.

I love that, what a great idea. It would be great if that was the norm!

[Wayman C. McCreery]

You're really turning me against Kitson with this stuff. I mean, seriously fuck that. If he called me a paedophile, i'd be out the door and wanting my money back.

I really don't think anyone in the room would have thought the person who'd run a marathon in less than three hours was actually a paedophile. That's what I love about live standup - you're going on a journey with the audience as well as the performer. If it weren't for interactions like that then I feel like I may as well be watching someone delivering a monologue on the TV.

You have my sympathy that it causes you so much anxiety though. Daniel Kitson often does relaxed performances of his theatre shows, which might appeal to you. There's something on the Tourettes Hero website about them here: https://www.touretteshero.com/2014/12/09/a-relaxed-ending. Sounds like Mark Thomas has done them too.

[sutin]

I really don't think anyone in the room would have thought the person who'd run a marathon in less than three hours was actually a paedophile. That's what I love about live standup - you're going on a journey with the audience as well as the performer. If it weren't for interactions like that then I feel like I may as well be watching someone delivering a monologue on the TV.

I don't think anyone in the room would have thought the person was a paedophile either, it's more the singling one person out and humiliating them in front of hundreds of people. I just can't see the funny side of that (If I was in that position, i'd probably be in tears). If a heckler shouted abuse at him, fair enough, but if it's just someone answering a question, fuck that. Not comedy, just twattery IMO. And I have to be honest, the idea of someone purposely sitting in the front row so the comedian might pick on them is amongst the most baffling human behaviour i've heard of. Imagine getting off on that, some people are fucking weird.

I don't wanna dismiss Kitson on these issues though. The show I did see was very interesting, if not hillarious. I reckon I could be a fan, but i'll probably leave my phone at home next time out of paranoia.

[sutin]

Talking this out has made me feel better about that incident, so thanks for that folks. Any time Kitson has come up in conversation with friends in the 8 years since that show, i've been instantly 'yeah, that guy was a dick to me in front of 100s of people'.

[Famous Mortimer]

Okay, you've posted about it twenty times or so now. The thread is fully and completely about you. Shall we move on?

[sutin]

Okay, you've posted about it twenty times or so now. The thread is fully and completely about you. Shall we move on?

I'm really sorry, that sincerely was not my intention. I've been enjoying people's takes on crowd work and maybe derailed the thread a bit. I think we can all move on now, yes.

[Wayman C. McCreery]

I'm really sorry, that sincerely was not my intention. I've been enjoying people's takes on crowd work and maybe derailed the thread a bit. I think we can all move on now, yes.

I don't think there's any need to apologise. I couldn't really disagree with you more about crowd work, but it's been interesting to read a wildly different take.

I've sat on lots of front rows so that there's room for my abnormally long legs. Obviously that comes with a risk and I've been part of several shows as a result. But I've never once felt like I've been picked on. Even when Nick Helm spent the best part of two hours calling me a cunt during his last tour. It's just a 'bit'. Unless you're being disruptive, there's nothing in it for the performer to ruin your night.

[notjosh]

Verging on new thread territory now, but the only time crowd work really crosses a line for me is when there's an invasion of physical space. The infamous Johnny Vegas incident sounds particularly horrible for example. And I've seen plenty of 'comedy' shows at the fringe which are really just theatre shows specifically built around making audience members feel physically uncomfortable. One that I particularly hated was Kraken - I was building up to punch the lycra-clad pervert when I thought he might be about to clamber all over me. When audience participation is involved I think the comic has to be particularly smart in working out who's game for it, and building in mini-consent checks as part of their patter. Adam Riches tends to have a good instinct for it I think.

To bring it back to Kitson, I think it's something he's sensitive to usually. I remember seeing a work in progress of that theatre show which ended up being a conversation between him and some cassette recordings in the audience, only he initially did it with audience members reading from scripts. He announced at the start that he was going to hand them out to anyone who made confident eye-contact with him. I really wanted to try it, but was also shitting it a bit, and he correctly read the fear in my eyes when he looked at me and moved on to someone else.

On the other hand, I was once picked to go and do a bit on stage by Steen Raskopoulos when I was similarly terrified, and had a great time, culminating in me storming the stage at the end (on his instruction) to lead the audience in a dance after he'd been "shot". It was pretty fun, and he was really gracious to me on the way out. I ended up glad that he'd taken me out of my comfort zone - an experience I wouldn't have had if there'd been a sticker-type-system as I'd probably have chosen red to be safe.

[Bobloblawslawbomb]

You are definitely right about Adam Riches. Have seen him numerous times and even been pulled up onstage on two occasions. He really has an incredible knack for asking people to do pretty outrageous (sometimes disgusting) things, but never veers into humiliating participants. Get the feeling he's in control with all types of people as well, builds up introverts, gently ribs extroverts, always making whoever it is the 'hero' of the sketch. Big fan.

Yeah this probably needs a new thread.

[peanutbutter]

In my experience Kitson has been drastically more talkative in the WIP shows, to the point that you're basically signing up for something that will be 75% crowdwork and 25% standup. Even with that being said I've never found him particularly bad and never ever degrading towards the audience. He powers on pretty quickly and it's a very friendly crowd.

The combo of such a free form show in a very packed smaller room mightn't be very nice for someone who isn't expecting it, and maybe he attracts people who never go to any other comedy other than bigger things?

[Small Man Big Horse]

On the other hand, I was once picked to go and do a bit on stage by Steen Raskopoulos when I was similarly terrified, and had a great time, culminating in me storming the stage at the end (on his instruction) to lead the audience in a dance after he'd been "shot". It was pretty fun, and he was really gracious to me on the way out. I ended up glad that he'd taken me out of my comfort zone - an experience I wouldn't have had if there'd been a sticker-type-system as I'd probably have chosen red to be safe.

Despite what I said about crowd work before, Steen Raskopoulos is a rare example of someone I'd happily see doing only that, but only because whenever I've seen him (which is only about three times, admittedly) it's been incredibly warm natured, and he's a superb improvisor in general.

[mjwilson]

I think my only Kitson anecdote is when someone knocked over a glass bottle and he stopped to ask what had happened. There was an awkward pause and then he clarified that he was just checking whether everyone was okay. Not a very good story really.

[notjosh]

I'd fucking deck the cunt if he asked me that.

[up_the_hampipe]

I saw Kitson do a WIP once, to me he's at his best when he's just dicking around and trying things out. At one point, he was talking about that Elton John biopic and he had this exchange with an audience member:

Kitson: Have you seen Rocket Man?
Man: No.
Kitson: Oh... homophobe?

All in a jovial tone. Was very funny. He also spotted a kid in the audience and gave him a fiver just for sitting through the show.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I think my only Kitson anecdote is when someone knocked over a glass bottle and he stopped to ask what had happened. There was an awkward pause and then he clarified that he was just checking whether everyone was okay. Not a very good story really.

He noticed some guy in the front row had an SLR camera sat by them and asked them if it had film in it (meaning, 'is it film or digital?'), the owner replied but someone tittered and he asked why and they explained they were laughing at the idea of someone wandering about with a filmless camera.

A lesser comedian would've pulled at that thread, but he went 'mmph, yeah' and carried on with more Kitson stuff.

[pk1yen]

I took a sneaky photo of Kitson at the opening of a gig he did with Gavin Osborn years ago, and he spotted and sang a jaunty little song about how I was a pervert taking seedy snaps of him. Completely deserved.

[holyzombiejesus]

I saw him at a WIP and he compared me to Hitler and made me move seats so my "judgmental face" wasn't in his eyeline.

[mostbutnotall]

I've been told I should sit at the back in his shows because I've seen him so many times he finds me distracting. I don't think he trusts my objectivity as an audience member in gauging if material is good or not - especially if he's on a deadline.
WIPS are my favourite thing to go and see though, he did over 90 minutes about building a wall and it ended up being pretty much a few seconds of the finished show. It was brilliant.

[Mr Faineant]

A few weeks ago I finally listened to the last installment of the August Resonance series of recordings. I'd been sort of randomly grazing on them...I like these resonance shows for that, essentially just interesting playlists. Anyway, the last one sort of blew my mind, so I had to go back and relisten to the whole thing. Good stuff, that.

[CaledonianGonzo]

https://danielkitson.bandcamp.com/album/we-are-gathered-here-2009

[notjosh]

Oh great! Remember really enjoying that one.