Tiger King: Murder, Mayhem and Madness

[Hank Venture]

On its face it's a show about deeply narcissistic people that (ab)use poor animals as props to get money, attention, and an ego boost. Where it shines is in the details: the amputee who just went back to work as if nothing had happened, the fact the other amputee actually lost his legs in a zipline accident, the discarded Walmart meat pizzeria, the condoms with Joe Exotic on them, the snakes in the mail, Joe Exotic suggesting Carole should be shot with a crossbow, putting cologne on your shoes to deliberately be attacked by a tiger for your online reality show, Joe's campaign manager being recruited from the Walmart gun section, Joe wearing a padlock on his Prince Albert ... It's like a real-life Jon Wurster call from Best Show cranked up to 11.

The big cat backdrop and the blatant animal abuse by all these cunts is just depressing. A happy ending would be all of them being mauled by their animals and exotic zoos being outlawed. The most vile thing in the whole show is when Joe burns down his own studio with some alligators still inside. Hope he's shanked in jail. I don't get the hate for Carole, yes, she quite clearly killed her husband but he was a prick, so. And also, I read something that said that she was portrayed very unfair with regards to the people she had working at the farm, and that the footage used of the animals in their cages were very selective (not showing footage of their acres of space for the saved animals, for instance).

[Puce Moment]

The first two episodes are shit because you think it's going to be about tigers and the idea of Netflix giving these horrible tiger people a platform to justify their cruelty is piss boiling. But then that twist comes at the end of episode 2 and I rattled through the series in one sitting.

Fair enough, I will persevere until the end of the third episode. It could be all the edibles.

[Clownbaby]

I've been seeing the disproportionate vitriol for Carole vs Joe as the old Walter White effect, where the most bombastic and entertaining figure (blossoming murderous criminal Walter White) is the one that people tend to automatically root for, and the one with the moral outrage who disapproves and folds their arms and tuts and questions is the one people automatically hate and dismiss as the ''fun-killer'' (Skyler). I adore both Joe Exotic and Carole Baskin for their sheer bizarreness. I haven't loved a documentary as much as this in a while. It's deranged.

Joe, though, is so obviously the most antagonistic and childish of the pair. There's much, much more on-the-surface evidence and reason to take issue with the way he goes about things than Carole, but there's something low-key off about her. I've got 2 episodes left to watch though. Don't suppose things will be resolved.

Also I do fucking not want to see a comedy series/movie about this unless the absolute best people are involved in it. I saw something about one of the current SNL people working on something. Doesn't really need to be done, does it. I don't see how they could make this story any more entertaining than it is

[a peepee tipi]

Spoilery long post, skip if you're not done with this yet-

Was hooked on this, thought that since everyone was talking about it that it'd be sfc but I have yet to see a description of this that matches how batshit it is. It's probably impossible to accurately convey. I mean fuck, in just the first episode you get: doing magic professionally after being mentored by a 12-year-old boy, B-H-A-G-A-V-A-N "Doc" A-N-T-L-E, and a fucking suicide pact. Then episode 2 hits you with the polygamy and, "No, I did not take the circular saw to his head. But I was there, so what can you say?" And none of this is even close to the craziest shit in this fucking thing!

Glad they never actually show any abuse, but still had to get up and walk off the fumes every time some cunt stuck their fingers in a tiger's mouth to show off their fangs or dragged a cub across a stage for a kiddy show. And the ending left me feeling a bit empty, not that that's a criticism. For all of the laughs, this stupid series got me all across the emotional spectrum. The old footage of Joe speaking out against breeding and how the animals belong in the wild. The last remnants of his humanity peeking out when he laments about the chimpanzees. It's tragic and fascinating, he was at some point seemingly a decent person, attempted suicide as a kid, fucked himself up on drugs, then ended up an absurd cult head monster.

On Baskin - as evil as Joe is, Carole making it a point to seize his mother's assets and shutting out Lewis's kids from the will makes it hard to feel sympathy for her wrt anything other than the attempted hit. See also her career in lifestyle grifting before becoming an activist. And I may be revealing my own ignorance about conservation efforts, but as wealthy as the Baskins are, why not just send the rescues to sanctuaries closer to their natural habitats instead of making their sanctuary and the animals a spectacle like their enemies? They're doing something and it is worth something I guess, but with all of the resources they have access to, I dunno. And that Fur Ball thing made me wonder if perhaps she deserves death after all.

Think the only people who come out looking decent were the woman who left Antle's harem and two of the caretakers at Joe's, long-haired methy fella and the brainwashed one-armed trans man. Also very funny how the reality show producer, whose job it was to exploit the shit out of his subject and who basically said as much, was one of the least contemptible people featured and by a wide margin.

[C_Larence]

Think the only people who come out looking decent were the woman who left Antle's harem and two of the caretakers at Joe's, long-haired methy fella and the brainwashed one-armed trans man. Also very funny how the reality show producer, whose job it was to exploit the shit out of his subject and who basically said as much, was one of the least contemptible people featured and by a wide margin.

Agree with those picks, and want to add that Joe's campaign manager came across surprisingly well too considering what he had been through.

With regards to the Carole hate discussion, I think it comes down to her brand of "evil" is banal and is seen as punching down. There's definitely credence to the opinion that women aren't allowed to get away with the same things as men are, but that's no to say that she is innocent. As I said before, it's classic Hillary vs the deplorables.

[a peepee tipi]

Agree with those picks, and want to add that Joe's campaign manager came across surprisingly well too considering what he had been through.

With regards to the Carole hate discussion, I think it comes down to her brand of "evil" is banal and is seen as punching down. There's definitely credence to the opinion that women aren't allowed to get away with the same things as men are, but that's no to say that she is innocent. As I said before, it's classic Hillary vs the deplorables.

Ah totally forgot about him, poor guy.

Jesus that Hillary comparison is spot on too

[SteveDave]

Think the only people who come out looking decent were the woman who left Antle's harem and two of the caretakers at Joe's, long-haired methy fella

In the last episode where he's hammered, at one point he's on a bed with a stuffed tiger and I was sure he was either going punch or fuck it.

[steveh]

And I may be revealing my own ignorance about conservation efforts, but as wealthy as the Baskins are, why not just send the rescues to sanctuaries closer to their natural habitats instead of making their sanctuary and the animals a spectacle like their enemies?

If it costs $10K per year to feed an adult tiger properly and they have several hundred then it's hard to see how they could ever make the finances work without opening the place up to visitors. I don't think they properly mentioned in the show that it's a non-profit organisation - there's a breakdown of their finances at https://bigcatrescue.org/about/finances/.

One of the things I thought they should have covered is that the privately-owned animals are so inbred that they could never be returned to the wild without causing damage to the native population.

[jobotic]

Tell you one thing - guarantee that everyone you see on screen in this programme fucking stinks.

[a peepee tipi]

If it costs $10K per year to feed an adult tiger properly and they have several hundred then it's hard to see how they could ever make the finances work without opening the place up to visitors. I don't think they properly mentioned in the show that it's a non-profit organisation - there's a breakdown of their finances at https://bigcatrescue.org/about/finances/.

One of the things I thought they should have covered is that the privately-owned animals are so inbred that they could never be returned to the wild without causing damage to the native population.

Hm yeah, I don't remember it being stated that it's a non-profit in the doc either. There's a comment on that page though expressing a similar curiosity I had when I got to the audit results, which is "what exactly are the program expenses"? 501(c)(3)s typically have good intentions and can be operated cleanly but are woefully susceptible to shadiness. I also counted a little over 50 cats total on their site with ~15 of those being big cats, but there are ways to view that positively and even with the smaller number of cats, no doubt proper caretaking would add a considerable amount to that figure of $10,000/tiger. So I'll concede that from my ill-informed position it may just be nitpicking.

Yeah, one criticism of the doc is that, especially since it was the filmmakers' original intent to make it informative, it would have been appreciated if they dropped facts like that one throughout, they certainly had the space. Could have dropped em like Ron Howard's narration in Arrested Development or the gear pop ups in Jon Glaser Loves Gear and kept the tone of the thing. But I mean, fuck how do you come into that kind of world and not end up making it all about these wacky fucks

[C_Larence]

Interesting interview with the creators here. They expand on Carole's activism, making it clear they believe she is doing good work. They don't seem convinced that she didn't murder her husband though.
Joe, who is in isolation because of coronavirus precautions, wants Brad Pitt or David Spade (who he calls Joe Dirt) to play him in a biopic.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/tiger-king-directors-reveal-a-list-movie-star-joe-exotic-hopes-will-play-him-1288047

Update:

Joe has coronavirus
https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/netflixs-tiger-king-star-joe-21803242

[lankyguy95]

Tell you one thing - guarantee that everyone you see on screen in this programme fucking stinks.

Laughed out loud.

After the first episode I was wondering how they were going to stretch it out over seven. It must have been at some point during episode two where it started exploding with revelations. So many batshit details; you could have gone off on a two episode sideline of about six or seven different people. I haven't seen so many "WTF!?" moments in a documentary since Abducted In Plain Sight.

In terms of the apparent reaction to Carole Baskin - I haven't really read any stuff online so I don't know the truth of it - I think that unlike the other 'bad' characters in the documentary, she has a look of respectability, which she seems to play on. People react more harshly to the arrogance, pride, manipulation, vindictiveness etc of someone like that. Exactly what C_Larence said in relation to Hillary Clinton I guess.

That poor Travis kid though, and the whole line of young men manipulated by Joe. Plus all the women with Doc Antle come to think of it. What terrible situations to be in.

[Cuellar]

https://twitter.com/RealBobMortimer/status/1246034080531128321

This is what I'm talking about.

'haha joe exotic, what a lad, what banter'
'ugh carole is pretty sanctimonious, i wish joe exotic WOULD shoot her in the head lol'

Fucking die, idiots.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I suppose misogyny on the Internet isn't much of a surprise, but Baskin didn't seem to feature much for the majority of the series and it was only the one episode with the dead husbands family that I thought really painted her in a bad light.

[Thomas]

One of the responses:

Definitely Carol. At least the others don't pretend to be good people.

Well, except that they all unerringly do. Joe himself, 'mystical scientist' Doc, and waterjetting James definitely spend the entire time trying to appear virtuous and enlightened in their own ways. Joe is constantly pleading to camera in some dishonest appeal or self-regarding moral monologue. 'My poor alligators. My poor sound-of-mind, fully consensual husband. The poor big cats at Carol's place.'

[surreal]

Poached from Reddit:

[batwings]

(not my work). Burst out laughing at the jet ski.

[kalowski]

I loved it, but you know that if the Coen Brothers were making an ensemble film and their initial cast or characters included Joe (fucking Joe!), a doped up ex-con, a woman with her arm bitten off, a man with two false legs, Joe's two husbands, both of whom are straight, the original Scarface, a hippy tiger fanatic who's suspected of murdering her first husband, her second husband who looks like George H Bush, a fat "fixer" con, a svengali fake doctor who uses baby tigers to manipulate young women and a nasty crook who uses tigers to sleep around whilst pretending to be super rich they'd be saying things like, "Ethan, I think we're pushing it here..."

I fucking loved this show.

[Mobius]

Yeah it has sort of ruined these sorts of documentaries for me. I genuinely don't know how it can be topped for pure madness.

[Custard]

This does seem to be the peak, doesn't it. Just incredibly nuts, and wildly entertaining

[beanheadmcginty]

If I had never been to America in my life and seen the place for myself, this is exactly the sort of thing that would lead me to believe that the US was a fictional land full of ridiculous characters created for our entertainment.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Yeah it has sort of ruined these sorts of documentaries for me. I genuinely don't know how it can be topped for pure madness.

This does seem to be the peak, doesn't it. Just incredibly nuts, and wildly entertaining

Exactly. This is a pyrrhic victory for Netflix. It's the insane, addictive, 'water cooler' documentary series they've always been looking for, better even than Making a Murderer, but there's just no way they'll ever top it in terms of sheer what the fuckery.

They'll certainly try - you know we'll soon be deluged with more Netflix docs hyped as "the craziest thing since Tiger King" - but nah, this will always be regarded as an unbeatable classic.

I tried to describe it to my Mum the other day, but quickly realised that my spoiler-free precis made no sense. It is literally indescribable. Anyway, she watched it, loved it, and agreed that you're on a hiding to nothing when trying to explain what it's all about.

We will never see its like again.

[lankyguy95]

Screen Rant Pitch Meeting just about sums it up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeRmuqspqco

[Twit 2]

Ah great, the Pitch Meeting format was made for this kind of show...

[Custard]

Fancy watching the entirety of Joe Exotic's three way wedding?

Fill yer boots!

https://www.tyla.com/entertaining/tv-and-film-joe-exotic-tiger-king-wedding-polygamy-youtube-20200410

[StewartLeehaslethimselfgo]

https://twitter.com/netflix/status/1248355014570999808?s=19

There's an after show out on Sunday interviewing the people involved.. but it's hosted by the painfully unfunny guy from Community

[neveragain]

Which one?

[Small Man Big Horse]

Which one?

Ha, I was going to do a "But Chevy Chase isn't involved in this is he?" type post but yours is more succinct and funnier.

[up_the_hampipe]

Ha, I was going to do a "But Chevy Chase isn't involved in this is he?" type post but yours is more succinct and funnier.

How dare you. Chevy's a dick, but definitely funny. But yes why is Joel McHale involved in this. David Spade has actually been doing pretty good interviews with the Tiger King bunch on YouTube.

[Dex Sawash]

JM is the default guy for aftershow type aftershows