Homebrew thread

[Blue Jam]

Just started a batch of St. Peter's Golden Ale Glory Vole. Just half the kit in the fermenter. Ordered some dried bison grass off eBay which I may put in the with the second half of the kit. I'll taste the first batch of ale without it then decide if bison grass will work with the flavours. If it does, that one will be named Prairie Vole.

Got to figure out how to do the fining next!

[NattyDread 2]

I use a high tolerance yeast for ciders - the yeast cells clean up all the sugars very quickly then die pronto so my cider is dry and done quickly. Result!

Was just thinking about doing a turbo cider and a ginger beer, and this post came to mind. Can you recommend a specific yeast? I've only ever used ale yeast for the beers and champagne yeast for ginger beer and elderflower champange.
My ongoing shed clear-out has brought home to me just how many demi-johns I have sitting gathering dust that need to be put into active service. Going to try all sorts of concoctions, so a yeast that does the business quicksmart would be ideal!

[Ferris]

I use lalvin EC-1118 which is technically a champagne yeast, but does a lovely job on apple juice. Cider comes out light and crisp, and it goes like the clappers with high flocculation so you get nice clear final product. It's fairly standard so should be available most places I imagine. I keep a few sachets in the fridge in case we get nice juice and I have a demijohn spare.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Itching to try mine but also trying to savour it for the bank holiday weekend as Monday will be when it passes the 2 week point.

I compared a non-screw bottle with a screw bottle by gently turning them both upside down and then back again. They both had about the same amount of carbonation/slight froth on top of the beer so it looks like I've gotten away with using some screw-top bottles.

[Ferris]

Itching to try mine but also trying to savour it for the bank holiday weekend as Monday will be when it passes the 2 week point.

I compared a non-screw bottle with a screw bottle by gently turning them both upside down and then back again. They both had about the same amount of carbonation/slight froth on top of the beer so it looks like I've gotten away with using some screw-top bottles.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uMyCa35_mOg

[NattyDread 2]

I use lalvin EC-1118 which is technically a champagne yeast, but does a lovely job on apple juice. Cider comes out light and crisp, and it goes like the clappers with high flocculation so you get nice clear final product. It's fairly standard so should be available most places I imagine. I keep a few sachets in the fridge in case we get nice juice and I have a demijohn spare.

That stuff looks the very dab. The low temp tolerance is a bonus too. I'll get some of that gear and those demijohns can start pulling their weight.

Cheers!

[touchingcloth]

What does bison grass taste of?

[Sebastian Cobb]

buffalo poo

[touchingcloth]

Urhhhhhh you eat buffalo poo???!?!!?

[Blue Jam]

Don't be silly, you can't wash your hands in a buffalo.

Bison grass has a really complex flavour. It's got coumarin in it, so it has that same vanilla-but-bitter flavour that tonka bean has, but it also has some floral and herby notes to it. It's pretty unique and therefore hard to describe, you just have to try it.

[touchingcloth]

Interesting - I've had tonka bean but can't completely imagine it in a beer unless it's supposed to make it taste somewhere along the Vanilla Coke spectrum. I'll find a blade to champ on.

[Blue Jam]

Here's a good attempt to describe bison grass vodka- the "jasmine tea" note is a good observation but it's still hard to imagine the taste from this:

https://www.diffordsguide.com/beer-wine-spirits/348/zubrowka-bison-grass-vodka

It's pretty complex...

"Vanilla coke" is not far off describing the taste of tonka bean in beer- it works well in porters, especially if there are also chocolate notes. It's like vanilla though in that it's not sweet in itself, it's a spice that only tastes as sweet as the ingredients it's added to.

I'm not sure bison grass would work in a dark beer though. I have a feeling it would work much better in a golden ale, which is why I'm going to try it with the St. Peter's kit. A quick Google tells me bison grass ales have been done before and done well so there's a good chance this won't be a disaster. Bison grass would probably be good in a wheat beer too, because of the grassy character.

I don't drink spirits anymore but Zubrowka really is a bloody nice vodka. It works well with apple juice but to me putting anything other than ice in Zubrowka would seem a waste.

[touchingcloth]

Interesting. I drink a lot of jasmine tea so I can see how some of the notes wouldn't be a vast distance from certain hops in light beers. Be interesting to see how it turns out in homebrew - seems like it could potentially make it taste unique rather than an attempt to make the "pro" stuff. Hopefully "unique" in a good sense, rather than like a singularly pungent fart.

[Blue Jam]

Jasmine very definitely works in beer, as do many other things used to make tea!

[touchingcloth]

Are they any decent brews that can be made without a ton of specialist kit? I've made beer in the past but I don't drink it much at all any more (can't find ale here, and Sagres is plenty fine) but I might be motivated to try something if a non-beer thing exists which is light on the equipment requirements.

I suspect infusions and whatnot might be the only realistic alternative? I've made white wine into vermouths and various dark fruity spirits (blackberries, figs, that sort of thing - not a flavour of sickly sweet and burning alcohol combined) so any suggestions in that area welcome, too.

[Ferris]

Are they any decent brews that can be made without a ton of specialist kit? I've made beer in the past but I don't drink it much at all any more (can't find ale here, and Sagres is plenty fine) but I might be motivated to try something if a non-beer thing exists which is light on the equipment requirements.

I suspect infusions and whatnot might be the only realistic alternative? I've made white wine into vermouths and various dark fruity spirits (blackberries, figs, that sort of thing - not a flavour of sickly sweet and burning alcohol combined) so any suggestions in that area welcome, too.

Yah bud. 5l jug and airlock, 4.5l nice apple juice, some yeast. 10 quid for the lot maybe?

"If I want to start a little bit, and stay super cheap - is there an alternative?

Yeah, you can make cider for nothing. 1 gallon fermenting jug, 4 litres of nice apple juice (no preservatives), an airlock, some yeast. Yeast in fermenting jug, pour apple juice on top, add airlock. Wait 10 days. Your apple juice is 8 pints of uncarbonated cider now. Decant into another vessel and bottle or just drink straight from there. My advice - pour it all into a large jug (leaving as much sediment behind as you can), add a pint of unfermented apple juice for flavour, drink the lot. Yum. I use champagne yeast on mine (Lalvin EC-1118 is the strain, its pretty common and any homebrew store should have loads in packets). You can get the bits for that for about 6 quid all in, which is pretty good. You can carbonate in bottles using the steps above if you like, but flat cider is legit. I used to have a formula written down somewhere on how to work out the cider ABV based on the grams of sugar per ml, but I can't find it now. Top of my head, most apple juice ferments out to about 6% without any help, but you can add sugar/maple syrup/any other sugar source to increase the ABV if you want - EC-1118 has an alcohol tolerance up to about 18% (I think?) so fill yer boots."

[Sebastian Cobb]

Mates Polish father in-law used to make some moonshine out of a giant pickle jar, and a load of berries and sugar. Banned after one too many christmas weeks continually half-cut.

Is it normal to make cider from pre-made apple juice rather than apples? I've heard certainly in apple juice you need to be careful with lots of apples as the amounts of ricin from the seeds can add up but I dunno if fermentation sorts that out.

[Blue Jam]

Cyanide isn't it? Ricin is castor beans, cyanide is apple pips. Mind you almonds also contain cyanide and while there are many ways you could die drinking Disaronno that isn't one of them.

Ferris, if I was to put the gelatin into the keg, how long would it take for it to gather up all the sediment and clump it together and sink to the bottom? Could I wait a day or two, then add the sugar water, wait for it to disperse, then do the bottling, leaving all the sediment behind? I'm just wondering how clear I can possibly get this beer. Just as a challenge to myself, I want to fine it good and proper.

EC-1118 has an alcohol tolerance up to about 18%

This is so the hobby for me.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Yeah I think you're right. I was out on a limb there.

[Ferris]

Mates Polish father in-law used to make some moonshine out of a giant pickle jar, and a load of berries and sugar. Banned after one too many christmas weeks continually half-cut.

Is it normal to make cider from pre-made apple juice rather than apples? I've heard certainly in apple juice you need to be careful with lots of apples as the amounts of ricin from the seeds can add up but I dunno if fermentation sorts that out.

Yes, totally normal. Unless you have an apple press handy, it's the way to go. You just need to make sure there's no added sweeteners, and no preservatives ("sodium metabisulphites" is the main one I see over here, assume it's the same in the UK) as it inhibits the yeast growth. I think the yeast would still ferment, but wouldn't reproduce so it'd take ages, and the yeast cells would be knackered so the final cider would taste really off. "Ascorbic acid" is fine, it's just vitamin C (Blue Jam - is it literally just vitamin C? I've never been clear), and if it's been pasteurized that's also ok. I used to get nice apple juice from the farmers market and use that, but I've also used cheap "from concentrate" stuff and it's been fine.

Never heard anything about cyanide, suspect it's a bit of folk knowledge but pretty sure it's not the case. I'm still here and I'm an idiot. I guess if it was a risk with apple juice you get in grocery stores it'd be covered in warnings "don't drink more than XYZ at one time or you'll be dead" type of thing.

Cyanide isn't it? Ricin is castor beans, cyanide is apple pips. Mind you almonds also contain cyanide and while there are many ways you could die drinking Disaronno that isn't one of them.

Ferris, if I was to put the gelatin into the keg, how long would it take for it to gather up all the sediment and clump it together and sink to the bottom? Could I wait a day or two, then add the sugar water, wait for it to disperse, then do the bottling, leaving all the sediment behind? I'm just wondering how clear I can possibly get this beer. Just as a challenge to myself, I want to fine it good and proper.

This is so the hobby for me.

I'm not sure - I want to say that would be fine (sounds alright to me), but it may filter out some of the yeast and slow up the bottle carbing. You could add it with the priming sugar, bottle, then cold crash the lot (ie put in the fridge) after 2 weeks which means the carbing will be largely done, and the yeast fining is most effective when done at cold temperatures. That would sort of get what you want? You might get a touch of chill haze when pouring, but once it started approaching room temperature it'd be crystal clear.

I haven't tried it, so you'd have to give a go and see. Time to have a tinker about! Worst cast, you'd probably need to leave Glory Vole an extra week in the keg to carbonate.

[Blue Jam]

That makes sense, cheers Ferris. I wouldn't want to remove too much yeast, finishing it off in the fridge and just pouring carefully sounds like the way to go.

And yes, "ascorbic acid" is just the chemical name for Vitamin C.

[Cold Meat Platter]

Reckon I'll try a wee cider. I assume that I could use one of the semi-demijohns that you get 2 litres of Scrumpy in with a bung and an airlock as I could get a couple of these for the same price as a new gallon demijohn and get cider with it. Any recommended sterilisation technique for this sort of thing?

[Ferris]

Reckon I'll try a wee cider. I assume that I could use one of the semi-demijohns that you get 2 litres of Scrumpy in with a bung and an airlock as I could get a couple of these for the same price as a new gallon demijohn and get cider with it. Any recommended sterilisation technique for this sort of thing?

I use starsan, but I stand by sticking everything in the dishwasher on a hot wash.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Could easily oven a scrumpy bottle too.

Speaking of bungs, I just bought one so I can fit my airlock to the lid without my immersion heater, the immersion heater necessitated a wider hole in the lid, but in sanding the burrs off I made it slightly leaky, not enough to be a problem and the airlock will gurgle if I press the lid, but I've never actually seen it gurgle while fermenting, do you think it's worth using a bit of Vaseline on the bung to seal it a bit? I know it's sometimes used to get a good seal on pressure vessel caps etc.

[Blue Jam]

I use a bit of Vaseline around the bung* because my keg had a label on it saying "lubricate seal with petroleum jelly before use" and it made sense to use it with the primary fermentation vessel too.

^*Fnaaaarrr

[Blue Jam]

Bison grass from off eBay has arrived. Think I've overbought. I'd forgotten how pungent this stuff is. I'm also now thinking it might work better as a flavouring for wheat beer. Lovely stuff though, I'll chuck it in anyway.

[touchingcloth]

Yah bud. 5l jug and airlock, 4.5l nice apple juice, some yeast. 10 quid for the lot maybe?

"If I want to start a little bit, and stay super cheap - is there an alternative?

Yeah, you can make cider for nothing. 1 gallon fermenting jug, 4 litres of nice apple juice (no preservatives), an airlock, some yeast. Yeast in fermenting jug, pour apple juice on top, add airlock. Wait 10 days. Your apple juice is 8 pints of uncarbonated cider now. Decant into another vessel and bottle or just drink straight from there. My advice - pour it all into a large jug (leaving as much sediment behind as you can), add a pint of unfermented apple juice for flavour, drink the lot. Yum. I use champagne yeast on mine (Lalvin EC-1118 is the strain, its pretty common and any homebrew store should have loads in packets). You can get the bits for that for about 6 quid all in, which is pretty good. You can carbonate in bottles using the steps above if you like, but flat cider is legit. I used to have a formula written down somewhere on how to work out the cider ABV based on the grams of sugar per ml, but I can't find it now. Top of my head, most apple juice ferments out to about 6% without any help, but you can add sugar/maple syrup/any other sugar source to increase the ABV if you want - EC-1118 has an alcohol tolerance up to about 18% (I think?) so fill yer boots."

Thanks! I miss rough scrumpy far more than I miss festering ales, and apples (/juice) are easy to come by here, so I might give it a go.

In lieu of trying proper brewer's yeast first time around - I'm nothing if not stingy - how much of a terrible idea would it be to bung some sourdough starter in the jar?

[Blue Jam]

The St. Peter's Golden Ale Glory Vole has been an odd one. Pitched the yeast on Thursday last week, by Day 2 it had produced a good 15cm of alarmingly foamy krausen and the airlock was bubbling like a mofo. Fermentation was going like the clappers until about Day 4 when the airlock went quiet. Took a hydrometer reading last night (Day 6)- original specific gravity was 1038, and from there Glory Vole has only made it to 1020. Still smells a bit too sweet as well, not much krausen but clearly it's nowhere near ready.

Did the kit come with  a very aggressive strain of yeast that shot its load too soon, like the crap fast action baker's yeast you get in supermarkets? Did the warmer weather fuck things up? Should I try pitching a bit more yeast? Or am I just being impatient?

In other homebrew news I picked up a bottle of St. Peter's Golden Gatekeeper Ale, which at 4.7% ABV appears to be the commercially-brewed version of what I'm making with the St. Peter's kit. When the Glory Vole is finally ready I shall do a taste test to see how they compare and how well/badly I did at this.

[Blue Jam]

In lieu of trying proper brewer's yeast first time around - I'm nothing if not stingy - how uch of a terrible idea would it be to bung some sourdough starter in the jar?

My initial thought was that all the wild yeasts and bacteria which make your sourdough taste nice would just make your cider a bit funky and unfit for human consumption.

Then I went to Waitrose and saw this on the shelves:

https://www.toastale.com/about-us

Fascinating. They use bread in lieu of the fresh barley rather than the yeast, but who knows... Ferris?

[Calistan]

Reintroduction to homebrewing kit #2 is a Munton's Smuggler's Ale kit which I made last Sunday, so I'm waiting to bottle that. The gurgling is so pleasant. Reckon I'll buy a stout kit next - my local homebrew store has a Coopers stout which has good reviews. I imagine I'll be waiting a lot longer for that to taste nice out of the bottle. If I brewed it at the start of June would Christmas be a reasonable time to expect it to be ready?