BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale

[king_tubby]

Pretty much every craft beer I've had from the supermarket has got worse to some degree than its original incarnation. Vocation, Northern Monk, Beavertown, Magic Rock (recently tried cannonball and highwire) are all producing core beers that have suffered. They've raised the overall quality and variety in supermarkets but are producing beer that has lost its sparkle. And that's charitably comparing it to older keg versions of these beers. Cask may be harder to keep and less reliable but the better cask beers from these made the beers they're knocking out 8 for £8 seem a joke

Given the choice of any of these and I will opt for Sierra Nevada pale ale, Jaipur, Guinness original or the best wheat beer that they have

Yeah, seems to be a thing though I would dispute any drop in quality with Magic Rock. I have some supermarket Jaipur in currently, I'll give that a go in a bit.

[phes]

Magic Rock are still producing some really great beers, in particular some of the specials and small batch ones. But after recently trying canned Cannonball and Highwire I thought the difference between the quality of the drinks now and the quality of the drinks back around 2011 to 2015 was night and day. Not as stark as the drop in quality of BrewDog Punk IPA, which now tastes rank. Is no doubt in my mind that from a quality pov it's a justification to seek out the better beers made by independent brewers and sold in bottle shops.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I tried Ayinger Jahrhundert tonight which is a 5.5% export style beer, very nice. Quite well hopped to counteract the sweet strength, but pitched towards the bitter rather than indulgent side. It has that great thing of diving in for another mouthful to get the hit. Fortunately/unfortunately I only had the one bottle.

Have tried nearly everything in Ayinger's range and, subtracting shit like Radler, they just don't do bad beers do they? I think it must be the most consistent brewery in Germany to do such a range and stay as good across it.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Just took delivery of Trembling Madness's box of Czech beer, looking forward to 'Czech'ing it out!! My colleague is from Brno and I always let her know when I've got some Czech beer in. She's rarely impressed. Be like if I was living in Czechia and some Czech idiot kept saying here mate I've got some cracking British crisps here. Monster Munch mate, you heard of that?

[Ferris]

Got the green light from Mrs Ferris, will be brewing again this month.

Loving it, lads. Gonna be massive.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Just took delivery of Trembling Madness's box of Czech beer, looking forward to 'Czech'ing it out!! My colleague is from Brno and I always let her know when I've got some Czech beer in. She's rarely impressed. Be like if I was living in Czechia and some Czech idiot kept saying here mate I've got some cracking British crisps here. Monster Munch mate, you heard of that?

Some good ones in there, some not so good. Did you pick up some Vinohradsky cans from them too? They are currently the best Czech beers available in the UK in my opinion.

Referring to the box, I rate the ones in bold

Kutno Horska Stříbrná 11 - Pilsner // 4.5% Abv // 500ml

Kutno Horska Zlatá 12 - Pilsner // 4.9% Abv // 500ml

Kutno Horska Lorecká 14 - Marzen Lager // 6.0% Abv // 500ml

Kutno Horska 12 Chmelená - Dry Hopped Pilsner // 4.9% Abv // 500ml

Albrecht 11 - Pilsner // 4.5% Abv // 500ml

Albrecht 12 Kateřina - Dark Lager // 4.5% Abv // 500ml

Albrecht 17 Morion - Dry Stout // 6.5% Abv // 500ml

Albrecht 14 - Pale Ale // 6.4% Abv // 500ml

Albrecht 12 - Pilsner/Lager // 5.0% Abv // 500ml

Albrecht 10 - Pilsner // 4.0% Abv // 500ml

Kanec Extra chmelená 10 - Pilsner/Lager // 4.1% Abv // 500ml

Kanec 12 - Pilsner // 5.0% Abv // 500ml

Haven't had the dry stout but I imagine being Albrecht it will be competent at the very least.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Did you pick up some Vinohradsky cans from them too?

Always :-)

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The dry hopped one is a good example of how a Czech beer can be updated to fit modern craft beer leaning hop head tastes while still being a wholesome, typically Czech beer experience.

[TrenterPercenter]

I had some beers last night

A Nikel Brau (Great had it before though!)

A Schonramer Pils (Perhaps a bit "lager" i.e. fizzy but really unique and great taste)

A Kanec 12 Vienna Lager (reet nice also though I've had better in the style).

Btw; Doombar update I managed offload one keg onto a mate for his birthday (result as he was really happy with it the inferior beer drinking luddite tsk!) and the other one is accumulating dust somewhere waiting to be opened when the gardens get opened in a few weeks and I can dish it out to some other unsuspecting phliistines.  There is no going back now.  Shoulders has corrupted and enlightened me (the best combo); however I do wonder when I'm on the streets begging for change to secure a fix of Pivovar Vinoharadsky 12 whether he will be taking some responsibility.

[Chedney Honks]

There is no going back now.

Good to hear this.

Unfortunately, Brexit means that Mars aU will soon be worth its weight in gold.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Here are the best beers I've had since December time. These are beers I either haven't had before or had so long ago previously to make no reference point:

Czech Pilsner
Cvikov Klic 12°
Monopol Svetly Lezak 12°
Monopol Vidensky Lezak 12°
Olesna Malkovsky Lezak 12°
Kutna Horska 12°
Kutna Horska Dry Hopped 12°
Kutna Horska Loreta 14°
Vinohradsky Jantarova 13°
Vinohradsky Svetly Lezak 12°

Bock
Ayinger Winter Bock
Weltenburger Asam Bock
Aufsesser Bock Dunkel
Ott Bockbier aus dem Leinleitertal

Doppelbock
Weissenohe Bonator
Schlenkerla Eiche
Wieninger Impulsator
Kloster Scheyern Poculator

Weizenbock
Weiherer Weizenbock
Weissenohe Eucharius

Munich Dunkel
Utopian Dark Lager

Helles
Wieselburger Stammbrau

Export
Ayinger Jahrhundert

Vienna Lager
Donzoko Vienna Lager

Hefeweizen
Keesman Weisse
Jacob Weissbier
Schonramer Weissbier

Marzen
Weiherer Kellermarzen
Weissenohe Altfrankisch Klosterbier
Monschof Historic Marzen

Schwarzbier
North Brew Co vs Donzoko Dark Lager

Roggenbier
Schremser

Belgian Quad
Zundert 10
St Feuillien Quadrupel
Wilderen Cuvee Clarisse

Belgian Winter Ale
Vicaris Winter
Abbaye de Rocs Noel
Bernardus Christmas

Gueuze
Girardin White Label

Kellerbier
Thornbridge vs Newbarns Gelbvieh
Schremser Zwickl
Veldensteiner Zwickl
Brewdog Berlin Zwickl Helles (seriously, I preferred this to Rothaus Kellerbier)

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Ok, so I'm in position to give you all a full assessment of Bavarian (inc. Franconian) beers. I'll be providing a general order of quality, including which ones to look out for and why. I'll inevitably miss some brands out but I'll try to pop back and edit where I find them.

Tier 1: The Big Munich Brands

Whether anyone likes it or not, the 'Big 6' brewers of Munich, alongside one or two other big brands dominate most people's experience of Bavarian brewing. They produce most volume domestically and have the furthest reach into other countries. They are emblematic of Bavarian beer.

For most, these breweries' beers are the most accessible and therefore their formative experiences of Bavarian beer styles. Before we get started let's introduce these:

Bavarian Beer Styles:

Helles (bready, crisp, refreshing, occasionally gloopy pale lager, the stock option in virtually every place that sells beer)
Hefeweizen (Wheat beer, thick, pale, banana, cloves and occasionally biscuity spicyness. Spend long enough in Bavaria and it'll seem like this one is tough to mess up, but just try any number of non-Bavarians' awful, atrocious efforts)
Munich Dunkel (mellow, thick, pleasant brown nutty, chocolatey and occasionally fruity, their 'dark mild')
Dunkelweizen (Dark wheatbeer, rich, indulgent, delicious)
Bockbier/Maibock (In Bavaria, normally strong pale lager with sweetness balanced by bitter, often floral hops. These can also be dark and in some case amber)
Doppelbock (A treat for the senses. Thick, smooth, dark and very strong, with raisins, chocolate, coffee, figs, plums, other dried fruit flavours)
Weizenbock (Can be pale, can be dark. Strong, full flavoured, yet similarly, can be smooth as silk and therefore massively indulgent. In my personal opinion dark weizenbock is the most delicious beer style made in Germany)
Vienna lager (Despite the name, far more Vienna lager is produced in Bavaria and Bohemia than anywhere else in the known universe. This is amber, with some autumnal flavours but can be quite stiffly and robustly hopped)
Kellerbier/Zwickl/Landbier (Franconia/Northern Bavaria's finest. This is the most similar beer style to English bitter in that you can go from the palest bitterest creation to something quite dark and heavy. Like Bitter, Kellerbier is about local culture, individual brewers identities and as such, there are beers here that do not easily fit niches. Kellerbier is unfiltered and therefore usually cloudy or murky)
Rauchbier (Rauch tradition centres around Bamberg. This is beer brewed with smoked malt, with peaty/bacon and eggs smokeyness, that can be a delicious and delicate addition or a balls-out fuckfest of fry up remnants and stale cum)
Rotbier (Brewed around Nuremberg, the resurrection of Rotbier is really welcome. Can be hoppy, can be thick and smooth, invariably the key is letting the reddishness out)
Marzen (A style I am increasingly getting into. Pale, strong, sparklingly bitter and yet with a nice slowly developing patina of caramel, biscuits and golden crops)
Festbier (Oktoberfest is inescapable, but many Festbiers are available all year round. Most are strong, but quite crisp and hoppy, and can be very moreish. There are outliers like Hacker-Pschorr who do a superb brown Festbier)
Winter beer (Unlike Belgian beers, Bavarian winter beer tends to be pale and hoppy, and on the strong, gloopy side. This is - in theory - balanced with piney, bristly hops, but I haven't been lucky enough to have any good ones)
Leichtbier (Not much to this one, it's generally a pale lager around 2.5-3%, and the challenge is to maximise flavour and freshness and not just be insipid and watery)
Steinbier (A highly unusual beer involving hot rocks in the brewing process, making a strange but almost irresistible quality to it)

Breweries/Brand names  (in general order of quality and/or consistency among the range, best at top)

Ayinger (Aying) (A high standard across the range. Best beers: Winter Bock, Kirtabier, Weizenbock, Altbairisch Dunkel)
Schneider & Sohn (Kelheim) (Wheatbeer brewery, very good with some standouts. Best beers: Aventinus, Original)
Weihenstephaner (Freising) (Best Beers: Hefeweissbier, Vitus, Hefeweissbier Dunkel)
Schlenkerla (Bamberg) (Famous smokebeer brewery and intimidatingly robust in style. Best beers: Marzen, Fastenbier, Eiche)
Hacker-Pschorr (A consistent range of Munich style beers. Best beers: Oktoberfest Marzen, Sternweisse)
Augustiner (Overall consistent and reliable. Best beers: Augustiner Helles is a benchmark for the style, their Celebrator is a famous historical doppelbock)
Tucher (Nuremburg) (Tucher do a lot of beers aside their main range. Best beers: Rotbier, Sebaldus Dunkel)
Franziskaner* (Well known wheatbeer brand, but also offer a kellerbier. Best beer: Franzikaner Hefeweizen)
Maisel (Bayreuth) (Wheatbeer brewery with some new craft-style spinoffs. Best beers: Maisel's Dunkel)
Hofbrau (A brewery of mellow high volume beer. Best beers: Weisse Dunkel, Sommerbier)
Paulaner (A slightly declining brand, but there are still some historic highlights. Best beers: Weissbier Dunkel)
Erdinger (Erding) (Jurgen Klopp's paymasters. High volume churn of their main beer but look underneath the trunk. Best beer: Pikantus)
Spaten* (A typical Munich Helles dominates outside Oktoberfest, when their best beer is on offer: Oktoberfest Marzen)
Kaltenberg (Furstenfeldbruck) (Slightly mediocre offerings on the basic lager front, but decent wheatbeer. Best beer: Weissbier Dunkel)
ABK (One of the more mediocre brands out there but serviceable. Best beer: Dunkel)
Lowenbrau* (A slightly tattered reputation, and a not that great flagship beer. Best beer: Triumphator Doppelbock)

*_{owned by the same group}

It's very likely all of you have tried a beer from 1 of the above, and similarly likely most reading will have had a beer from 4 or 5 of these brewers. Around Bavaria they are the stock options and I would say, largely, these brands still demand a deal of respect. Even one of the weaker big beers Erdinger, is produced by a brewery who also brew the decent Urweisse and the spectacularly delicious Pikantus. As a result it is difficult to make blanket judgements.

Most people would be delighted to find these beers available locally, but, such is Bavarian brewing, it remains fair to say that most of the beers on show by the above are milder, less complex and less distinctive than the creations of many we'll come to.

This is absolutely no reason to write them off. Ayinger remains for my money the best quality high volume Bavarian brewer for the standard across its range and a standard absolutely everything out of Bavarian should be striving for at a bare minimum.

From my experience I would say these brewers offer the weakest kellerbiers, for reasons which we will come to.

Tier 2: Well-known Medium-Sized Breweries

Mahrs (Bamberg) (Renowned for good reason, their aU is among the best unfiltered lagers in existence)
Spezial (Bamberg) (My favourite Rauchbier brewery. The Marzen is ambery, medium-smokey and totally delicious, the Lager is mouthfillingly flavoursome and superdrinkable too)
Keesman (Bamberg) (A high standard across the range but their Bock singularly changed my mind about that style)
Camba Bavaria (Seeon-seebruck) (A brewery of several dozen styles inc. craft, all competently, some great)
Hopf (Miesbach) (Wheatbeer brewery, good standard but the Muospacher Bockfotzn is on a par with Schneider Aventinus)
St Georgenbrau (Buttenheim) (A venerable kellerbier producer that sets a benchmark for the style)
Monschof (Kulmbach) (Slightly more mass-manufactured and bland for the medium sized breweries out there but standards remain higher than the most industrial offerings. This brand is a very good entry level into Franconian brewing)
Kapuziner (Kulmbach) (See above. Different brand name and the same standards apply)
Schonramer (Petting) (One of the most reliable breweries in Bavarian who just don't do a bad beer. Perhaps missing out a peak or two)
Weltenburger (Schloss Weltenburg) (A relatively big name, their beers are simply a cut above the Munich brewers, while also missing out some nuances of the smaller brewers. The Asam Bock is exceptionally lovely.)
Kloster Andechs (Andechs) (The same applies here, it is a very similar standard and range to Weltenburger)
Gutmann (Titting) (Wheatbeer brewer. Very high standard, if mellow)
Kuchlbauer (Abensberg) (Wheatbeer brewer, slightly more experimental. The Alte Liebe doesn't quite work but the Turmweisse is a Top 5 wheatbeer ever.
Tegernseer (Tegernsee) (Now zeitgeisty after craftbois discovered Helles. Typical south Bavaria fare really, classical in execution, high standard. Beautiful setting.)
Riegele (Augsburg) (Another brand that are getting into craft and have about 30 different beers, most of which are good if not better. Slightly lacking some real mongrel and identity like CAMBA though)
AND UNION (Munich) (Modernised Bavarian brewing, credit for trying to widen the envelope but if I'm honest some of the stuff is ho-hum)
Allgauer (Kempten) (A reasonably good brewery whose main beers are a little bit Marmite depending on your tastes)

Why are these worth a look? Well, many of the qualities that make the Tier 1 beers tasty are accentuated. Everything is slightly less churned out, the flavours are bolder and aiming at a narrower audience. In short, these beers aren't just trading on their past reputation but seem to give a damn about maintaining it too.

Some of these like CAMBA, Riegele and AND UNION have made concerted efforts to modernise and reach out to a new audience in contrast to the Tier 1 crowd who are happy to sit on their supremacy.

The first thing to note is just how much better the kellerbiers and bockbiers start to become. Styles that require a little subtlety and trickery, delicate balancing, an individual touch and more time lagering starts to shine. And here is where the stars of the show come in:

Tier 3: The Cream of The Crop

Brauerei Kundmuller (In making their Weizenbock & Zwickerla Dunkel, they have brewed some of my favourite beers ever, with the Urstoffla and Keller Marzen having to settle for just being plain old fucking fantastic. If you see their stuff, buy it)
Klosterbrauerei Weissenohe (They have a trad and a craft range and knock it out of the park every time. The Kloster-Sud is an incredible Vienna Lager while the Bonator Doppelbock is up there with the best)
Schubel (The apricoty Bock is an astounding brew, the A Frankisch kellerbier is like the ur-typical one of the style, and the Nordeck Trunk keller is everything you want from Franconian brewing. They rule)
Aufsesser (Only a small brewery, the sheer freshness and raw authenticity of their beers leaps out. It's difficult to choose some of others as they're all so good, but I think the Zwickl and the Bock Dunkel take it over the threshold of amazingness)
Stelzer Fattigau (A delicious, almost gothic Dunkel and their Zoigl are proof they are operating near the top of a crowded field of great small brewers in Franconia)
Goller (Pastoral, soft, indulgent, beer that relies on freshness rather than any cute angle in order to impress. Deeply lovely stuff though)
Hetzel (One of the breweries to hold up if you were asked to explain what Franconian brewing is all about, they are archtypeal)
Honig Tiefenellern (Honig Posthornla is a Bavarian classic, one to try before you die)
Gradl (A small brewery in Pegnitz, their absurdly malty, bready Dunkel and fresh Bock are truly magnificent)
Wurth (The biggest legit Zoigl brewer, these beers accentuate local traditions, quirks of method and are an antidote to mass manufactured beer. It frankly makes a lot of the Munich beer look like liquified dog shit in comparison, before you realise just how high you have climbed)
Neder (To have had their Kellerbier from the barrel at their taproom in Forchheim is to have ticked off a beer bucket list item. Delicious, with the unfiltered quality a rawness and almost naked flavour that simply isn't on offer in any of the Tier 1 beers)
Puttner (A Zoigl brewer. Both the trad Kellerbier and their Basalt Dunkel are delicious. The latter is world beating)
Niklbrau (A truly delicious sharp bitter Zwickl and a beautiful more trad keller in their Michaela)
Nothaft (Believe me you are in safe hands here, their name is a watchword for quality and their beers are all masterful)
Sonne (A terrific Helles and Dunkel beer. It is an 'in-the-know' brand in Franconia, heard of and well rated)
Ott (These guys do some quite interesting spins on local beers including the Bock which is unlike anything I've drunk, in a nice way)
Hummel (The Marzen is superb, and I would like to try more of their stuff. Why oh why is it so hard to obtain?)
Binkert (These guys have an eye on the craft market and achieve a high standard. There's something quite calculating and clinical about it though which doesn't invite you to really fall in love with their stuff)
Pyraser (Order a steinkrug of the floral, raw-tasting, frothy Pyraser Kellerbier on a hot summers day and fall in love with the style)
Schroll Brau Nankendorf (A consistent range of local styles done in a traditional method to similarly great effect)
Fassla (Not quite as great as the other Bamberg brewers but nevertheless you wouldn't kick them out of bed for farting)
Reh
Rittmayer Hallerndorf (In comparison to many of the above, their beers aren't a standout, though most remain superior to the majority of Tier 1 and Tier 2 by virtue of their attempts to be distinctive)

.....and, in fact, over a 100 small breweries whose beers I am yet to try, many of whom I'm sure deserve a place among the above.

So, Tier 3 takes us beyond the safe confines of the Bavarian sphere of influence, the big companies, factories and macros pumping out high volume beer to order, distributing globally, filling cellars in pubs and restaurants, with the edges smoothed off to maximise appeal to as many palates as they can. We then graduate to those brewers trying to take the best from both worlds, before ascending to encounter the real thing: Small time, in some cases family level brewing.

There are drawbacks with some of the beers of this tier. Consistency is one. Some of these beers do taste different from year to year, and sometimes there are storage issues. Occasionally the take the brewer has applied just won't fit your own at all. The positives however, make it well worth sticking with them. Unfiltered lager with a rawness, freshness and balance you won't have ever encountered while drinking beer of any sort, non-conventional methods carried out not because they want to lose money but because they have experienced what great beer tastes like and won't settle for less.

Their stock and trade is partly about not being like the big guys, by operating in the little niches, by attracting converts like myself. They operate Gasthauses and restaurants in tiny hamlets and sideroads around the region.

Overall, as you rise through the tiers you are eventually reaching true Bavaria, where the beer is far more a product of love and human labour (as it must be at that level) and shows in the tasting.

---------------------

Hopefully this post will serve as a useful reference point for people if they are looking to explore German beer. If you have any questions ever about this, whether it's shopping for beer, the styles, or travel questions, feel free to PM me, I can perhaps point you in the right direction or make a suggestion that may suit you. Alright, cheers.

[Chedney Honks]

Brilliant post, cheers. I've said it before but one of the highlights of the last year is getting into German beer, with your knowledge and enthusiasm a major driver. This thread has been marvellous. Literally cannot wait to take a trip to Framconio for myself and gorge in a massive deep dive.

My current faves are the Klosterbrauerei, Mahrs and St. Georgenbrau but I could make a hell of a list with all the excitement I have for these beers. Also love the Puttner Zoigl, so I promise to look out for the Basalt Dunkel.

[purlieu]

I'm lucky enough to live in a small, shitty midlands town that somehow has a specialist German beer shop, so I've been able to try all sorts over the past few years. A few to add to shoulders's near-exhaustive post, a couple of my favourite German breweries and a handful of particular beers that are either excellent or unusual.

Kössel Bräu - A small guesthouse brewery near the Austrian border. Their standard range includes a delicious Mariahilfer amber lager and a wonderful hop-forward helles, but the real highlight is the Mariator weizenbock, which is like a glass of banana and chocolate pudding. One of my all-time favourite beers. Also, surprisingly, they do a very convincing Irish stout.
Flötzinger Bräu - Worth checking out their rich, brown 1543 hefeweizen, while their helles is as good an example of the style as one could hope to find. Their Export Dunkel is another firm favourite.
Klosterbrauerei Reutberg - Do a glorious maibock called Josefi-Bock which is my favourite of the style.
Winkler Bräu - Their Kupfer Spezial dunkel and helles are both very rich in flavour and highly recommended.
Brauerei Gasthof Grasser - The Huppendorfer range is worth exploring, the Vollbier is one of my favourite kellerbiers.
Klosterbrauerei Ettal - The Kloster-Hell is my favourite helles, a really sweet, floral and richly malty beer.
Meckatzer Löwenbräu - Do an unusual bitter hefeweizen which I really enjoy.
Held Bräu - I've only had the helles, but it's a very thick, almost ale-like lager that works best served cool rather than chilled. A unique and delicious beer.

[Ferris]

My stag do included a day at Andechs Monastery playing card games in the sun, so I can confidently assert it is easily the best Bavaria has to offer.

[purlieu]

Andechs is one of my favourites. I'm not a huge fan of Festbiers, but their Spezial is gorgeous, and their standard range - helles, hefeweizen, dunkel and dunkelweizen - are all among the finest examples of the style.

[thelittlemango]

Excellent post Shoulders, another convert to the cult you seem to be building here and have really enjoyed getting in to a lot of the styles/beers that you've been mentioning for the last year or two.

[poo]

Great stuff can someone inject all this knowledge into my brain then order me the beers

[phes]

Cheers S?S! a dead helpful crib sheet to stash away for a hopeful future beyond multiple fuckdown. Good for the soul as even my local bottle shop feels more and more like scrolling netflix by the day

Incidentally, not a huge selection, but this scottish craft beer shop has a couple of beers you mentioned that I don't see checking trembling madness. Notably the bonator dopplebock

https://hopshopaberdeen.com/location/germany/

[phes]

Black IPA and Imp Stout fans, Pentrich are clearing out some stock. They're doing 6 x 440ml Jetglo Moon Black IPA (8%) for £12 and 2 x 440ml Empty Horizons Imp Stout (10%) for £8. Usually steer clear of clearance beers but robustly malted, dark, high abv IPAs will probably stand a little aging and hop fade, and the imp stout will be as good as new or better. Very pleased for £26 inc postage. Nice little selection for a small brewery with also a scotch ale, smoked porter, a pale and lager festbier

https://www.pentrichbrewing.com/beer-shop

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The Pentrich beers I have tried have been decent, good call. Hop Shop's stock seems to have come off the same distribution line as with Tremblingmadness.co.uk (a tad pricier too)

If anyone's interested http://www.sausageman.co.uk stock Engel beers from Baden-Wurttemburg and some of their packs of 9 x 500ml bottles are discounted right now. They also have a discount code TAKE10% for first time buyers and free delivery over £65. They sell sausages (inc vegan options), of course. I picked up 27 beers and 2 packs of sausages for £68 which I thought was decent and should see me through to pub reopening on the 12th.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

This is a list of the of German beers I've tried sorted by region of origin.

It is skewed by the fact I've actively sought out Bavarian beers, spent more time there in person too, and is a very large area with sub sections that are almost as big as other German states, but nevertheless, it should give some impression how dominant the region is for brewing:

Bavaria: 341
Nord Rhein Westphalia: 30
Hesse: 11
Saxony: 9
Lower Saxony: 9
Saxony Anhalt: 8
Berlin: 8
Baden-Wurttemburg: 8
Rheinland-Pfalz: 4
Thuringia: 4
Schleswig-Holstein: 4
Brandenburg: 1
Bremen: 1
Mecklenburg: 1

[Norton Canes]

Ok, so I'm in position to give you all a full assessment of Bavarian (inc. Franconian) beers...

Nice post Shoulders, will be printing that out and affixing it to the corkboard fir future reference.

And I was just starting to think that, fantastic as the beers from these tier 2 and 3 breweries are, how fine I was with the dozen or so products of the tier 1 big players I can get from Booths. Now, I'm thinking back to summer days in the garden, with deliveries from Beers of Europe or hier-gibts-bier.de...

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The Engel beers arrived from Sausageman.co.uk this morning.

Glorious weather so sat outside with their Aloisius Marzen, 5.9%



It's quite a full bodied one, malt sweet and fruity with some caramel tones, then made crisp and bitter with Magnum, Perle and Spalter Select hops, which tingle on the tongue and then linger in the mouth leaving a sugary but bitter aftertaste. According to the bottle it has 5 weeks lagering in a 'classic Zwei-Tank' system.

There's quite a high risk something so burnt bitter caramel and fruity could be a bit gross but fortunately everything is fresh as a daisy, so you get full hop character and nice balance. I wouldn't care to spend all day on this but it's worth a 7/10, maybe 7.5...definitely in the margin of quality I'd expected.

I've learned that Marzen is among the most bitter hopped and high IBU of traditional German beer styles, which makes it all the more peculiar that it is one of the least picked up and mimicked by craft brewers. Surely you could make a brilliant beer that's somewhere inbetween this and Sierra Nevada pale ale, a hoppy amber.

[Ferris]

I didn't know that. I'd guess it's heavily bittered (rather than aromatic) and it'll be something to do with the long preservation time between brewing (in March, for "Marzen" which I'm sure you knew already) and consumption in October and hops having anti microbial properties but I have no idea.

I think the trendy hoppy beer has moved away from the more bitter heavy IBU stuff and more onto aromatics and dry hopping? There was an Ontario Pale Ale style in southern Ontario that was halfway between a west coast IPA and an amber ale, but it was a bit of a halfway house that pleased nobody and I don't think anywhere makes them any more. Duggan's Brewery in Parkdale[nb]side note - I've found that the shittier a brewery's graphic design, the better their beer. Not an absolute rule, but if it's too slick it's probably making up for a crappy product. There was one in Cambridge, ON that did all their labels on MS Paint which was excellent, for example.[/nb] seems to be one of the last holdouts, and that's only because the No. 9 was the granddaddy of Toronto craft beers and they're probably loath to stop making it.

Also sausageman.co.uk sounds like the homepage for Clowne Butchers.

[purlieu]

Yeah, there are definitely a fair few bitter hoppy pales out there still, but it already feels like a legacy style. It's all about DDH and NEIPAs these days. I've seen people suggest that, because they have nothing to do with IPAs at all, flavour or appearance-wise, DDH should be the name of the style. I suppose if you throw in traditional IPAs, which are basically just slightly hoppier versions of English Bitter, it's pretty much impossible to even broadly define the style now.

Here's some pics from my local offy this afternoon. Some empty-looking shelves because he's managed to turn a large number of Stella and Carling drinkers on to German stuff, despite the huge price difference:




And my favourite kellerbier, in the garden when I got home:

[phes]

Can't wait for NEIPA to be fucking gone. Infinite versions of a korma. Every single brewery is now starting to trot out a West Coast beer so presumably now they've had their hop race and pushed NEIPA to triple ipa, triple dry cryo hopped whatever they're now bored and looking backwards while they wait to glom onto the next US innovation. I'm dead pleased by this as I'm much happier with infinite versions of a madras. That said, we are shit at making excellent West Coast style beers here. Have also noticed a lot more East meets West things appearing. Happy to give that a go.

Noticed recently how common it's become for craft shops to put badges showing beers Untapped rating and links. Disaster that. Untapped is helpful to locate beer but as a quality guide it's total gubbins. Nobody ever takes the time to write tasting notes beyond JUICEBOMB or SMASHABLE so it's useless for weighing those up and making up your own mind if you want to try a drink. And stockists will inevitably chase high untappd ratings because it's profitable and easy

[purlieu]

I've had a handful of good English West Coast pales, but yes, the Americans are vastly superior at them. There are so, so many 'ok' British ones I've had - perfectly enjoyable drinking, but nothing memorable whatsoever. Looking at my Untappd, the best I've had are Stewart Brewing's Radical Road and Drygate's Crossing the Rubicon, both of which are Scottish, and have a more traditional balance of being more amber and malty, only with searingly bitter west coast hops. It's a nice contrast that I enjoy far more than the "here are some hops in a glass" style which a lot of our breweries seem to go for.


Untappd ratings are a joke. Four of the top five rated English Bitters on there are from American breweries. One is black in colour and served from a nitro tap.

[phes]

the only thing I use untapped for now is to look at photos of west coast ipa's to check they're not yellow. I have a few West Coast/ish on their way: Polly's Strip and Drift, Pentrich Blizzard in the Pines and Burnt Mill Great Bitter Lake.

I must do some research and do a Scottish beers monthly shop soon. I've had some great beers in the past but failed to make a conscious effort to follow that up 

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Noticed recently how common it's become for craft shops to put badges showing beers Untapped rating and links. Disaster that. Untapped is helpful to locate beer but as a quality guide it's total gubbins. Nobody ever takes the time to write tasting notes beyond JUICEBOMB or SMASHABLE so it's useless for weighing those up and making up your own mind if you want to try a drink. And stockists will inevitably chase high untappd ratings because it's profitable and easy

Would also counsel against anyone doing that. You have to look at who is rating something and what use that is as a general application before putting great stock in it.

Eg, Ratebeer does a best bar awards every year but invariably the best rated bars are just the bars with THE HIGHEST QUANTITY OF ANY BEERS IMAGINABLE, because for a lot of these people their idea of a bar is limited only to selection of beers, like it's just a supermarket with some seats. A lot of these venues are not terrible but they can be really drab, one note, stark, and quite off-putting for people. But they have a cult following, are good at making sure no-one who isn't into that would even dare walk in.

By contrast, bars who do try to appeal to a wide range suffer the slings and arrows of public opinion and suck it up, despite knowing their Google rating will automatically drop by 0.4 no matter how hard they try.