BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale

[Ferris]

There does seem to be a bit of fundamental misinterpretation of IPAs in general in Europe and they tend to be a lot better in North America. There's lots of boring brewing-tradition based stuff, but I've been pretty underwhelmed (although obviously that comes with a MONSTER caveat of very, very rarely drinking in the UK).

Conversely, I find the average lager or dark beer tends to be far better in Europe than the North American equivalent, and I'm convinced it is due to the operational mechanics of brewing where the trans-Atlantic old men with hairy ears are in charge and saying "oh, you don't want to do that!" on both sides of the ocean and churning out less-good beers in certain styles as a result.

If only those old men could get together and learn to get along. What a world there could be.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Conversely, I find the average lager or dark beer tends to be far better in Europe than the North American equivalent

Disappointing to read. Outside of Germany and Czechia I had North America down as next most likely given the immigrant contingent and small brewing scene. I've seen a lot of tempting looking taprooms with Schwarzbiers and 12° Svetly lezaks advertised and that's something you would not find in the UK. Perhaps outside 2 or 3 places in total, otherwise you would get funny looks and questions about the next milkshake ipa coning through locally and what chewy bar the next stout tastes of

[purlieu]

There does seem to be a bit of fundamental misinterpretation of IPAs in general in Europe and they tend to be a lot better in North America.

I think it doesn't help that the UK seems to be so heavily indebted to BrewDog when it comes to craft beer, in that I've tried so many IPAs that are clearly far more influenced by Punk IPA than even the biggest US examples like Goose Island and Sierra Nevada. Not that Punk is a terrible beer, but it's on the yellower, sicklier end of IPAs and definitely misses the mark in regards to what it's trying to be. You end up with so many copycats doing golden coloured slightly piney, fairly bitter pales with no complexity or depth at all that it just feels totally underwhelming. The overall standard - and I definitely include BrewDog in this, as they have a remarkable number of quite bland beers - ends up being similar to that of one of the hundreds of best bitters that Marstons brew these days. Ok, but forgettable, and ultimately indistinguishable from its peers.

Much as I dislike the novelty value, I'm much more likely to try a mango-infused pale or milkshake IPA from an English brewery, because there's more chance of it at least being memorable. It might end up basically being a beer alcopop, but there'll be something more there than just the same one-note flavours.

I've never tried a genuine US stout, and I'd quite like to see how they fare, because the one thing I've found with UK craft stouts and porters is how thin they are, even the milk stouts. The flavours are often really nice - and I am a sucker for nonsense like maple syrup pancake stack stouts - but they never have that "you could eat it with a fork" thickness that I'm used to from the traditional London and Irish types.

[Ferris]

I'm speaking in generalities - there are (of course!) excellent European IPAs and I'd be happy to recommend some North American stouts (anything by Founders in Michigan is likely to be terrific for example). Just if you pick any old US lager vs any old European lager, the EU one will probably be better.

[phes]

I bought a bottle of Founders maple makinac kentucky breakfast stout but found it undrinkable beyond a half bottle. Seems I just don't enjoy thick, pudding beers (though I do recall having an Amundsen 13% double glazed donut stout that was incredible as a 1/3). Unfortunate as pudding stouts alongside NEIPA makes up about 2/3 of the stock at my local bottle shop. Also noted a lot of criticism of Founders re their response to the settled, racial discrimination lawsuit. Certainly on the UK Craft Beer Forum they are considered an absolute no no, and by UKCBF definition, no longer craft beer anyway. I left the UKCBF group as it felt like a new CAMRA generation, retarded by a gender imbalance, prone to telling it like it is and ultimately - having usurped their despised CAMRA-endorsed 'twig-water' - swung right to the other end of the spectrum and replaced that with an endless stream of drinks that lack subtlety or vision and feel like an extension of a tuck shop.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Yep, I toy with joining these groups but there's an element of futility in discussing things with embedded cliques and scenes that move the terrain away from discussing beer to looking cool in front of the alphas that doesn't appeal. At least not on the subject of beer.

Ultimately, it is in every beer drinkers interests to not become too tied to notions of what 'proper' beer is, or make arbitrary cutoffs just because they dislike the branding or the typical audience.

Instead we should re-centre, and consider that the primary purpose of getting 'into' beer is to find new flavourful and/or refreshing experiences, gain a good appreciation of what's available to assist with making choices that match your tastes and consider individually why a beer does or doesn't work for you.

Sadly this generational thing which has been split between real ale/craft beer has created a lot of people who are not discussing flavour sensations, brewing methods, new ideas but just sitting in their camp viewing the other with suspicion.

Yes, the fact is a lot of the craft beer scene is irritating, sometimes unbearably arrogant nonsense, confusing hyper experimentation of niches within niches and gimmickry as being at the arrow tip of the beer universe, while completely overlooking huge swathes of global beer culture. Likewise a lot of the real ale scene is stuffy, blinkered, too obsessed with what has been and gone, and overly male dominated.

Definitely not arsed discussing beer with anyone who turns their noses up at a beer for reasons other than a) the flavour or b) the brewery's ethics.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Conversely, I find the average lager or dark beer tends to be far better in Europe than the North American equivalent, and I'm convinced it is due to the operational mechanics of brewing where the trans-Atlantic old men with hairy ears are in charge and saying "oh, you don't want to do that!" on both sides of the ocean and churning out less-good beers in certain styles as a result.

Possibly, although I found it easier to find a good range of quality milk and chocolate stouts in the US. They seem to be getting more common in the UK though.

This is one I liked when I was living in Portland, although I'd only ever have one as it's 9.5%

[phes]

The impression I get from various bottle shops on facebook, from the UKCBF and from what I see in the supermarket is that we have already reached pudding stout/porter saturation point

Have a scroll through this feed and see how they've come to dominate demand

https://m.facebook.com/BeerCentralLtd/?locale2=en_GB

[El Unicornio, mang]

The impression I get from various bottle shops on facebook, from the UKCBF and from what I see in the supermarket is that we have already reached pudding stout/porter saturation point

Have a scroll through this feed and see how they've come to dominate demand

https://m.facebook.com/BeerCentralLtd/?locale2=en_GB

Damn

14.8% Double Espresso Maple Vanilla Imperial Stout

[purlieu]

It can be easy to react against something because of the clique around it - I was very sneery about craft for a while, but recent supermarket purchases, including a number of cans from less ubiquitous breweries, have reminded me that there a number of US-style pales that I do really enjoy, and of course a lot of pudding stouts that I've always quite liked. It was a nice reminder that there are times when something with really citrusy hops really hits the spot, and I don't have to buy into the ludicrously self-aggrandising blurbs to enjoy the beers.
The main barrier I find is the can sizes. Anything that's not as strong and rich as at least a Belgian Dubbel and I find 330ml really unsatisfying, but I don't like shelling out £4+ on a larger can for a new beer that I can't guarantee I'll like.

[Chedney Honks]

Framconio or fuck the fuck off

[bgmnts]

Thinking about visiting the Rhymney Brewery when covid restrictions lessen. Have a bit of a sample.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

AND UNION, currently have 20% off everything as an Easter deal on their UK store and free delivery over £45.

Oh and there's 10% off for first time subscribers too.

https://andunion.co.uk/

Eg. 3 x mixed bavarian case is 45 x 330ml cans for £62.80 with the discount applied, and free shipping. Works out £1.44 a can. Quite a bit cheaper than the price of AND UNION at Waitrose.

[Chedney Honks]

Is it any good?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Is it any good?

They are alright, yeah, consistent across the range. Marketing is modern, but their Bavarian stuff is relatively trad tasting and legit too.

If anyone is looking for some upper crust tinnies on the porch in the sun type beers, they'll work very nicely.

[Chedney Honks]

OK cheers, will give them a whirl.

[thelittlemango]

Are you getting spanked by customs on these?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Are you getting spanked by customs on these?

On the AND UNION beers? Nah, it's a .co.uk web shop, the beers are already here.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Big fan of the Thursday Dark Lager (used to be called Neu Black)

Cracked open my Czech box and tried the Albrecht 12 - Pilsner/Lager // 5.0% Abv // 500ml. It was not bad, kind of musty(?) at first, but it grew on me.

[phes]

Tried a can of Deya's Saturated in Simcoe (8% NEIPA) last night. Shared it with two friends and that was about my limit for a strong NEIPA. Absolutely extraordinary body though and I've no idea how they do that. It was like drinking a cloud. Who has the answer to how they do this. The Polly's NEIPA I had afterwards was a similar style of drink but did not have this characteristic

[Ferris]

I'm going to a bar later (for the first time in over a year). Naturally I'm going to a beer nerd hangout.

They have an "oerbier" listed, anyone any ideas? I don't think it's a style (or at least not one I've heard of) and google only turns up a Belgian brewery I don't know.

Wondering if it's worth me going for or what.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Oerbier is fuckin'-A.

De Dolle are a more fashionable brewery than the Trappists and good Abbey ales. I don't melm over their beers like some, but they are really good and I'd say it's close to Rochefort and Bernardus in style and quality.

[TrenterPercenter]

Not beer but this made me chuckle whilst perusing the Whiskeyexchange tuther day....



There is a wonderful story in my family about how the "ladies" went out for a while whilst my old man and grandad were tasked with fixing a staircase; however they had also acquired some poteen through one of their sources.  You can guess where it is going and you wouldn't be wrong as obviously by the time  my mum and grandmother arrived back they were both  blind drunk and passed out with my dad face down and implanted through a now an even bigger hole in the staircase.

I suspect this story to be true by the fact both my dad and grandad (whilst he was alive) always denying it ever happened (the fact is they can't remember because they were off their tits on illegal booze).

[Ferris]

Oerbier is fuckin'-A.

De Dolle are a more fashionable brewery than the Trappists and good Abbey ales. I don't melm over their beers like some, but they are really good and I'd say it's close to Rochefort and Bernardus in style and quality.

So it's a specific beer from a brewery (and not it's own style)? This is outside of my sphere.

Who am I kidding, I will be guzzling pints of it anyway but it's nice to pretend innit.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

So it's a specific beer from a brewery (and not it's own style)? This is outside of my sphere.

Who am I kidding, I will be guzzling pints of it anyway but it's nice to pretend innit.

As far as I know it's just the brand name. It's a strong dark indulgent Belgian ale but with a bit of a drying quality that with the hops makes it a repeat drink.

[Ferris]

As far as I know it's just the brand name. It's a strong dark indulgent Belgian ale but with a bit of a drying quality that with the hops makes it a repeat drink.

Good to know.

9%?! When I'm posting complete shit in a few hours time you'll know why.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Good to know.

9%?! When I'm posting complete shit in a few hours time you'll know why.

9%... piss all really these days isn't it mate! 110% for the shirt.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Albrecht 12 Kateřina - Dark Lager // 4.5% Abv // 500ml

Fucking hell lads yes please. Just love this style so much.

[Ferris]

9%... piss all really these days isn't it mate! 110% for the shirt.

Bar was closed until 5pm, so had 6 Guinness at the terrible Irish bar over the road instead.

Happy Easter everyone, I am spangled.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Albrecht 12 Kateřina - Dark Lager // 4.5% Abv // 500ml

Fucking hell lads yes please. Just love this style so much.

Haha! Yes, quite Porter like, I thought. For a Tmavy.