BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I must admit after two read throughs I'm still processing it, there's quite lot to digest and consider.

Having supermarkets absolutely killing bottleshops on price clearly doesn't help create a healthy environment, but the arguments around variety are quite baffling. Most modern craft styles are quite well covered in major supermarkets and not all by Brewdog, Vocation, Northern Monk, etc. I am not sure what the umpteenth round of Hazy ipas adds, especially if the supposed premium products are actually contract brew halfway houses.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Just had a pint of Bread & Butter by Vocation at the Bridge and was actually fuck awful, hint of the first handpull of the day about it.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://twitter.com/NMBCo/status/1385885444496400388?s=19

Quite a strong twitter game here

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Hop House Lager is no more. Poor performance during Covid, apparently.

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/alcohol/guinness-spin-off-hop-house-13-to-be-axed-in-the-uk/

Brewing + marketing a quasi-premium lager while keeping happy the very sensitive palates of standard lager drinkers and the enhanced needs of continental lager fans, while making trace concessions towards quality over quantity was going to be tricky.

It was a pretty bad lager by any measure, but UK lager is so bad it had undeservedly, for a short time, developed a reputation as a superior option, and was usually 20% more expensive while being pretty cruddy.

[Ferris]

HHL was an objectively terrible beer. That hasn't stopped lagers being financially successful in the past, but it doesn't help.

A lot of crappy macro stuff gets ordered because it's peoples' "usual". To be a new entrant to that market you have to be noticeably better[nb]though tbh the macro lager market worldwide doesn't want better[/nb] or much cheaper and get into peoples' regular order that way. HHL was neither, and nothing of value has been lost.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I think the UK standard lager audience is so extraordinarily conservative and hair trigger sensitive and their choices so narrow that for a wee while it did seem to have offered and achieved a brief illusion of improvement, when all they had done is slightly tweak the malt base for a marginally fuller (though not fresher) flavour. Still had the usual crisp, slightly sharp shitey lager finish.

Obviously HHL didn't fool LAGER KING Shoulders here, and don't worry, I shall be here to crucify the next crap attempt at premium lager that edges out the remnants of actual half decent ones left in the mainstream market.

[king_tubby]

What would you say are the best of the macro lagers? I will drink Corona or Sol if they're cold enough, but Carling/Fosters/Coors etc are undrinkable.

[Jerzy Bondov]

I am going to take the major risk of being cancelled by the lager thought police and say that the new Carlsberg is alright.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Carlsberg have gone to the trouble of making their lager taste slightly better than it used to be which I suppose makes them an exception among that lot. I still think there's a very high chance if ordered on tap in a place that doesn't care, it will be nothingy shite.

What would you say are the best of the macro lagers?

I am applying a high filter so only very mainstream. I think it's mainstream enough, it's now even brewed in Burton on Trent (UK stuff anyway), I'll say it: Staropramen. For the UK, anyway. Budvar probably isn't quite widespread enough to count. Then, 2nd/3rd/4th? Too depressing to think about. Estrella? Christ, how is that even potentially in the running? Something German next? Yes, something safe and German and average, but at least notably beer. Sam Adams/Brooklyn? Not mainstream enough if Budvar isn't.

If you're talking about Europe-wide, perhaps globally, then the answer is without question Pilsner Urquell, which achieves volume and quality very well. The effortless nature of the way it slays all of this shit for quality without being much more expensive (in cans and bottles anyway) stands out.

[Pink Gregory]

Is Korev a country-wide thing, or just down here in the South West?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Is Korev a country-wide thing, or just down here in the South West?

Have seen it on tap in Leeds and it's in supermarkets. It's somewhere around Hop House standard in my view.

[phes]

If we're talking total dreck tier piss then I recall reading a blind tasting by brewers of all the American stuff a few years back and surprisingly Miller dominated the top 10.

Edit https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/best-lagers/30-of-the-best-cheap-macro-lagers-blind-tasted-and/

No comparisons with UK beers, but in this case Miller Genuine Draft performed well. It's available in some english supermarkets, though apparently much less common than in Scotland, where it's available in all major supermarket chains

[Ferris]

I am going to take the major risk of being cancelled by the lager thought police and say that the new Carlsberg is alright.

I'll always go Staropramen if it's available, after that I'd drink Stella but at that point I'd take anything else (an amber or pale ale). Lagers in pubs are usually a study in desolation.

Edit: Shoulders correctly identifies Brooklyn Lager as a decent option if available. I quite like that one.

If we're talking total dreck tier piss then I recall reading a blind tasting by brewers of all the American stuff a few years back and surprisingly Miller dominated the top 10.

Edit https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/best-lagers/30-of-the-best-cheap-macro-lagers-blind-tasted-and/

No comparisons with UK beers, but in this case Miller Genuine Draft performed well. It's available in some english supermarkets, though apparently much less common than in Scotland, where it's available in all major supermarket chains

I was briefly in a beer pong league (yeah what of it?) and even that crowd mocked the person who elected to drink Miller genuine draft. Not even horrible, just... nothing.

[purlieu]

Hop House 13 always had the dubious quality of being better in bottles than on draught. No lager should be like that, and even my mum - who quite happily bought it in bottles - found the tap stuff bland and staggeringly overpriced. It won't be a great loss.

There are a few good UK lagers - if you can find Purity's Lawless on tap, grab one without hesitation, as it's unfiltered, uses Pilsner malt and a mix of German and US hops to make a very full-flavoured drink that feels like it shouldn't be from this country. Pre-Covid it was a frequent favourite of mine as a pub in town had it for £3.50 a pint. Kent's Curious Brew is a very decent lager that's brewed in wine barrels to give it a distinctive taste. I've found it in the midlands a couple of times so it's worth keeping an eye out. ABK's Pilsner seemed popular a couple of years ago, and is another worthwhile option if you're somewhere that makes some attempt at procuring interesting beer. Craft-wise, Brooklyn is very good, although can be a touch gloopier than ideal from draught, and BrewDog's Lost Lager will probably be making its way into pubs over the next year or so, if they have their way. It's more bitter than your usual mainstream fare, but pretty drinkable.

In terms of mainstream ones, as ever Czech options will always win out - Staropramen, especially if not served ice cold, is reliable, and Pilsner Urquell, Budvar and even the UK Kozel are definitely going to be the best of your options in a more daring bar. Carlsberg's update is a noticeable improvement, but it's still far from great. Stella and Kronenbourg 1664 are probably the most palatable of the Euro lagers; the former always makes me think of how beer tasted when I first tried it, while the latter is quite sweet and pleasant but with no finish which ultimately makes it pretty bland. Estrella Galicia is a respectable attempt at a helles which is leagues above their standard, and the obvious Italian ones - Peroni Nastro Azzuro and Moretti - are pleasantly inoffensive, the lager equivalent of a Marston's or Greene King cask ale.

[phes]

I tried both Stella and Kronenberg fairly recently. Stella is now a boozeless corn drink and Kronenberg as you say is very sweet. Can't say I found it pleasant though, both of these tasted awful. Moretti and Peroni are presumably brewed to licence and are both nothing drinks. Moretti is probably the least offensive of all these drinks. I guess all are brewed with corn which explains how so many super cheap drinks manage to taste simultaneously of shit and of nothing. Obviously as mentioned a few times Pilsner Urquell, which really doesn't deserve even to be compared to these other alcohol delivery substrates

Edit: Asda has 2 x 6(330ml) of PU for £9 atm

[king_tubby]

Ah yes, Budvar. I used to enjoy Budvar Black. Staropramen I always found far too malty.

[TrenterPercenter]

Are we allowed to still drink dreck beer just to get smashed with the mates? asking for a friend.

[phes]

Yes sir but there isn't much mileage in talking about the beer

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Was at Accidental Brewery in Lancaster last night. Their range is largely strong pale ales, some good stuff though. Sorachi Ace 5% was good and DIPA v. 1 which they seem to have nailed first time of asking. They also had Thornbridge Lukas which is now so close to Bavarian helles on tap it is near indistinguishable in every single aspect, which is high praise, believe me, in a country with so little good lager.

They have a hookup with a local pizza restaurant as well so other than having 1 toilet in total, it's a good place to go.

[buttgammon]

I'm reliably informed there's now a Brewdog in Dublin. Please nuke us.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Manbaby James Watt was showing off recently about his new Vegas chain of BrewDog recently. You know underneath the outward corporate wokeness there is a dead eyed ruthlessness and cynicism to the man.

[Ferris]

He's the James Dyson for men with beards.

[purlieu]

Picked up a 440ml can of BrewDog's Elvis Juice in Asda today, what with it being about the only one of their standard range that I really enjoy. As I was pouring it out, I noticed it had been dropped to 5.1% - hardly a weak beer, but not quite the original 6.5%. Staggered to discover how watery it tastes, it really could be about 3% from the taste and texture. Even ignoring the really fucking tedious marketing bullshit that surrounds the company, I'm always amazed at just how bland their beers are. For a brewery who go out of their way to point out how anti-establishment and revolutionary they are, it's really bloody weird that their beers are so mild in flavour. I don't know how anyone manages to make a 5.1% beer that's so thin and watery. As bad as Fourpure's Citrus Session IPA which, despite being 4%, has the flavour and consistency of an alcohol free beer.

At the moment I'm mostly just on an English strong ale trip, though. Adnams Broadside (bottle version), Shepherd Neame 1698, Greene King's only genuinely great beer, Old Craft Hen. Strong, rich, malty, boozy ales.

[phes]

Last time I had Elvis Juice it had that horrible metallic flavour that shit lager gets. Two cans went down the sink.

I can see this winding a lot of people up though as it's an established beer and none of their other beers are at that % point.

[TrenterPercenter]

I just drank a Manhattan (perfect) instead of dessert.


Make of that what you will.

[Ferris]

Brew dog sounds like it's gone on a serious decline, it was basically fine last time I had it in the UK. All this watery/off flavour/reduced abv stuff is like what happens after a corporate buyout but seems to be self-inflicted.

[phes]

I haven't set foot in a Brewdog bar in several years so I couldn't say whether they are operating a bit of a two tier approach. It's entirely possible they have a lot more interesting drinks available in their bars. I've certainly had a couple of small batch sours from them that were very good.

But yeah, the supermarket offerings are now almost entirely dreck. Hazy Jane was knocked down to 5% and the original beer was rereleased as OG Hazy Jane. Punk IPA tastes shite. Lost Lager changed from a half decent pilsner to a weaker, tasteless lager. EJ has been knocked down as you noted. Hardcore IPA, a genuinely good beer was rebranded as Mr President and subsequently seems to be disappearing from shelves. The solid Jackhammer is hard to come by and you just know that'll disappear because they'll need more shelf space for core beer. The Cloudwater collab is not a great beer. They appear to be narrowing the core range to bland 4-5% beers that have wider appeal and presumably are cheaper to make and attract less taxation. I feel a little sad as Brewdog in Nottingham in 2012 gave me a formative introduction to a lot of guest and bottled craft beer from the US and even with the appalling marketing and quality dive I still have a nostalgia spot for Punk IPA.

[Ferris]

Hadn't thought of the taxation angle, that's a very good point.

I also harbour a soft spot for Punk IPA (not least because brew dog started in Edinburgh when I still lived there and I was dead excited to go to an actual beer bar like they have in that London and ooh I'm drinking a nice local beer that's different and good and supports a local brewery while you're all drinking mcewans or tenants like twats etc) but it sounds like even that has taken a bit of a nosedive.

Twas ever thus.

[Ferris]

Addendum: a quick google shows they were excited to open a bar "north of the 49th parallel" in Toronto 2 years ago, but ran into unspecified "issues" and didn't bother.

Also Toronto is ~600km south of the 49th parallel so they obviously did tons of research.

[phes]

I may be wrong on the tax, at least for domestic sales. The middle-ground appears to be 2.8-7.5%. The major factor was always going to be that they are ruthlessly ambitious and you can't take serious supermarket shelf space from macro brewers with niche beers. Their beer was always going to become a cartoon of craft beer.