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March 29, 2024, 12:52:12 AM

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BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale

Started by Shoulders?-Stomach!, March 30, 2020, 03:56:03 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

purlieu

#1740
So many people's experience of lager is Fosters / Carling / Carlsberg / etc.
So many people's experience of real ale is badly kept Hobgoblin / Doombar / anything by Greene King.
It's easy to see where the polarised opinions come from.

But yeah, it depends on weather, mood, what I'm up to. Was in Birmingham this afternoon, it was quite muggy and I had a beer with a meal, so I had a Camden Hells, which I think is the best easily available British lager around at the moment and a decent approximation of the German style. It went down nicely. If it's a colder day and I'm having a few pints in a good pub with a range of cask ales I'll be all over them. In a pub with limited range, I'll go for a mainstream bitter over a mainstream lager, because they tend to be bland rather than unpleasant. I'm totally comfortable flipping between the two, although ale tends to taste better after lager than the other way around.

Ferris

Yeah in my experience a mediocre ale will typically be better than a mediocre lager because of the way they're brewed and stored.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

#1742
6 x 330ml cans Leffe Bruin at Home Bargains for £6.99

That equates to *does sums*... Beers

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I thought I would do a small Oude Gueuze roundup for those interested in getting into the style.

This beer is a blend of 1, 2 and 3 year aged Lambic, made with open spontaneous fermentation. The liquid ferments using natural yeast in the air, usually resting in coolships, large shallow copper vessels in the rafters.

The blend of young and older lambic produces a drink that is at once complex and refreshing. Usually tartly sour, with clear dry musty oaky qualities, occasionally citrus, with a cottony texture.

From a PR perspective they traditionally marketed themselves as the champagne of beers. These are often bottled with a cork, and due to the bottling can be highly carbonated, so there is a similarity. They are now specialist drinks and priced accordingly but were the everyday drinks of Belgians, along with Saisons.

Because Gueuze is a blend, you don't even have to be a brewer to make Gueuze, and some of the finest are made by choice blenders. There is a brewers union, due to the Senne Valley being perfect for making these beers, and they happily exchange their products year on year, co-operatively keeping the product commercially alive and evolving.

The problem with the evolving nature is how to make a stable beer that tastes similar year after year. The truth is, you can't, but you can ensure your methods bring the product into a workable margin.

So:

Cantillon Gueuze (5%) - The Ur-type. A benchmark for quality and flavour. You have to bear in mind that this is now a specialist drink, highly prized and very expensive, but it was traditionally designed to be quaffable. The problem is this. Do you quaff something you paid that much for, or painstakingly savour every drop. That is the issue with this one. If you go to their brewery in Brussels it will never get cheaper. Get several glasses and you will discover it is wonderful to glug as well as savour. Thick, tart, and addictive, almost naughty.

3 Fonteinen Gueuze (6%) - This is the intro of their stellar and super pricey range but is worth a splurge. Extra booze is normally countered with extra sourness in Lambics and there is a bit more here than Cantillon's.

Gueuze Tilquin (5.3%) A major competitor to 3 Fonteinen. Tilquin's fruited Gueuze and sours are out of this world good, the Quetsche, the Mure. Wow. However, this is a must try as well balancing flavour and drinkability very carefully. The blend brings out classic Gueuze elements, tart citrus, slight apple, oak and cellar like fust, and an almost kneading mouthfeel that people describe as cottony.

Oud Beersel Gueuze (6.5%) Stronger and bracingly sour and dry. Don't try this before giving the entry level ones a go, as you may be put off. Fairly uncompromising in terms of its lack of sweetness.

Boon Geuze (7%) No prospect of downing this one. At 7% and purposefully dry and oaky, this has a lot going on but is beautiful to slowly sip and explore. It needs a bit of time and does reward with some sweetness unlike Oud Beersel.

Boon Mariage Parfait (8%) - Lipsmacking tartness to offset the strength. This is Boon's step up, and simply commands more respect to take it slow and carefully. I personally prefer their standard.

Girardin Gueuze White Label (5%) Slightly fruity, dusty, medium sourness. Always expensive but not in the same league as Cantillon, or even the relatively affordable Boon.

Timmermans Oude Gueuze (6.5%) Still available from Morrisons for £4.50. A stronger sour Gueuze with sherberty sour effervescence and a pretty satisfying tart drink overall. Almost entirely missing the cellared, dry, oak barrel qualities though.

Fond Tradition (5%) Had the other night and really enjoyed. This should be the Gueuze that goes mainstream. Approachable balance, thirst quenching yet tart, all the elements of all Gueuzes I have tried feature in there. Very low maintenance so if you are looking for a great drink this is one, but if you are looking for a super complex sip and savour, look elsewhere.

Lindemans Gueuze (5%) Apple. It really tastes of apple. Not particularly complex but sour with a pleasant flavour. Not really a helpful intro as its fairly out there from the normal Gueuze but for what it is, fine.

Lindemans Cuve Renee (5.5%) This is what most people consider Lindemans' 'proper' Gueuze. Initially dry and bracingly sour, but worth persevering with as the flavour resolves and mellows midway through. A decent and relatively affordable one.

Mort Subite Gueuze (4.5%) It's sweetened Gueuze. Originally the Belgians did drink Gueuze sweetened with a sugar cube mashed in with a Lambiekstoemper implement. This was my first ever one, and I would recommend if you want to start really slow. It is far removed from Oud Beersel but it introduces some of the dryness, tart quality and base flavour while being sparkling moreish and simply a nice drink regardless of style, brand or whatever.

Belle Vue Gueuze (5.5%) Another sweetened Gueuze. Nothing but a thirst quencher, but a nice one in the right setting. My last time was at Au Delft in Liège, a classic parquet floored old wood mirror panels Belgian café and it was just right.

Naturally there are many more unaccounted for here that I'd like to try, often these are on the higher end of the price scale which is why I haven't.

However, I commend this research to the house.

Paul Calf

Has anyone tried the Innis & Gunn bottled lager? I've heard that it's really good, but never found anywhere to buy it.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Seems to be stocked by the big supermarkets, which I am sure isn't that helpful if you've already checked. Though I often find their label goes missing somehow, doesn't stand out placed next to others.

Apparently it's also on tap somewhere called OverDraught in MCR which is modern for Manchester.

'Pretty bland sadly' seems to be a common theme on the reviews. I would anticipate the same.

purlieu

It depends how you view it. If your experience with lager is limited to the general mass market ones, then it's probably a revelation. It's an attempt a helles, and they definitely get the flavours right. Sadly it's still fairly mild in taste, nothing compared with a proper Bavarian helles.

Blinder Data

Quote from: Paul Calf on August 13, 2021, 02:18:01 PM
Has anyone tried the Innis & Gunn bottled lager? I've heard that it's really good, but never found anywhere to buy it.

Not tried bottled but their cans are everywhere in Scotland and are my go-to choice of 4x440ml drinkable lager for under £5. I wouldn't say it's worth seeking out though.

Shoulders?-Stomach!


Shoulders?-Stomach!

It's been a while since a Westmalle Tripel but very happy to be paying £2.50 in Morrisons for a bottle of this.

Also when the £8 Omnipollo Pecan Mud Pie thing is on the shelf and people are saying "ah that's what you'll pay for a 10% beer", well, I can get 3 Westmalle Tripel (9.5%) bottles for that and have change for a Twix.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Oh fuck, La Trappe become the first Trappist brewery to sell non-alcoholic beer 'Nillis'. Completely too, 0.0% they claim.


Ferris

Enjoying a few of these lads, very nicely done. Always a solid brewery here with very few misses, but you can tell this has been through a few iterations and brewed by someone who knows what they're doing.



Can is fucking hideous but what can you do

Shoulders?-Stomach!


Calistan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grodziskie

Had a few of those and many shots of vodka at a Polish wedding last night. I'm grateful that there were about ten courses of food.

Łódź tonight and then back to Warsaw. Have had some delightful honey beers during this holiday but hopeful of finding a few more interesting beers.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

In cities at least, Poland is very good for craft beers these days, in fact yes, I'll say the best by far in Eastern Europe.

Grodziskie is quite pleasant really, interesting low % style that is made more flavoursome by smoked malt. Lichtenhainer is not far off either. Prussian beer, I suppose.

You'll do fine in Warsawa unless you make an almost ridiculous set of wrong turns.

Also as far as booze intake goes, I think all those 'Highest beer consumption in the world' surveys are missing the fact half a continent gets cunted on spirits with beer just a sort of light refreshment in between.

Calistan

Yip, Poland seems to have a thriving beer industry these days. My girlfriend would argue against the "Eastern" European categorisation but she can go swivel. Every Pinta beer I've had has been either very good or decent. Opted for a Funky Fluid Damn Good Coffee DIPA last night mainly because it seemed to reference Twin Peaks. Interesting coffee notes but probably wouldn't bother with it again.

I'm told the new incarnation of Grodziskie is different to what it was like back before they closed operations in the 90s, but I enjoyed how light it tasted. Think it was roughly 3.5%. The town itself is very pleasant. We got given a tour by one of her uncles who drove us around and showed us a few of the derelict buildings where the breweries once operated and a few nice churches. Might be returning next summer and I'll try to go to a Warta Poznań game. The previous occupants went bust but beat Man City roughly twenty years ago. Aforementioned uncle is one of the nicest people I've ever met so I'll be doing my utmost to have learnt a bit more Polish before I see him again.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteMy girlfriend would argue against the "Eastern" European categorisation but she can go swivel

Heh, this again. I can agree Czechia probably deserves 'Central Europe'. It is easy to see why they and others want to shed the Eastern tag. But Poland is Eastern European, and new tower blocks, vegan restaurants and swish infrastructure isn't going to change that overnight.

Having been to Gorlitz, split in two with Zgorzelec on the Eastern Polish side, there are profound immediate differences that are pretty deep cultural ones, even with German influence in Poland. I wasn't expecting such a jarring transition.

Additionally, given that Poland used to be further east than it now is (into Lviv and Belarus) , you can't even fall back on history to justify it not being Eastern.


Shoulders?-Stomach!

A quid's worth has gone over the side there

Ferris

If you're not carrying an emergency McDonald's straw for just such an occasion, that is on you.

No sympathy.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

5 ace Czech beers on tap from Sunday at the Evening Star in Brighton if that happens to be near you.

mothman

By a Jersey-based brewery, Liberation Bitter. Rather nice! Quite a dark, creamy beer, almost a stout. Really must try to find it on the mainland.

The Mollusk

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on August 20, 2021, 09:36:09 PM
It's been a while since a Westmalle Tripel but very happy to be paying £2.50 in Morrisons for a bottle of this.

Cheers for this tip, I gotta seek out a nearby Mozza. There's a beer shop near me which stocks all sorts and I've been nipping in of a Friday to grab a few Westmalles (as well as Delirium Tremens, St Bernardus tripel and others) and they're about £4 a pop. Getting nicely toasted off 3 delicious beers for best part of £12 is acceptable but finding it cheaper is a godsend.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Pretty sure Waitrose is doing Westmalle Dubbel for £2.20, and even Boon Gueuze for £3.50, among lots of others. Tesco were doing some such as Delirium for a while but not sure if that's changed.

The Mollusk

Sounds like I need to start sacking off these independent outlets and smashing the SUPES.

Blinder Data

maybe it's just a regional thing because I don't tend to see these amazing Belgian beer deals in my local supermarkets :(

Shoulders?-Stomach!

https://shop.beerdome.cz/

Just enjoying the first 1.5L PET bottle of the latest delivery from these guys.

It's Alois 11, a pale lager from Pivovar Uhříněves. Unfiltered and unpasteurised.

Yesterday I was stuck drinking Carlsberg at Headingley Stadium, so night and day really. Only 4.5% but great full texture and everything is so alive and fresh, the hops sing, it's really bitter but all nicely grounded with a drying finish and gorgeous spice and tang. And yes, we have to stress this is pale lager I'm rhapsodical about.

Beer Dome do all the VAT paperwork so as long as you keep the shipment below 40k / 130 euros you won't get any nasty surprises, and you can get a load of absolutely fantastic beer over for average of around £2.30 / half litre.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Head to The Grove, Huddersfield today to track down super rare Vinohradsky 12° on tap to find it was closed. Dumbass not to have checked. Sportsman and West Riding Refreshment Rooms in Dewsbury were open though.

king_tubby

I've not been to the Grove for years, but I remember it had a ridiculous amount of beers on and sadly I was far too twatted to judge how they were having spent an afternoon at the Magic Rock taproom.

Had a third of the Kirkstall Brewery coffee/chocolate/stout thing today, it'd be good poured over ice cream but it's not for drinking.

phes

Abbeydale have been knocking out some small brew beers to celebrate their 25th. Last night at The Rutland Arms they had a double version of their NZ Pale Ale Deception. At 8.2% (on cask!) and just £2.70 for a half!  Very good as well, full bodied, marmaladey and vinous. Really a much better West Coast-ish beer than every single unpleasantly sharp and citric, thin bodied WCIPA attempt that craft breweries have all been knocking out. Reminded me a little of what Cannonball was like back when it was available on cask and wasn't shite. Obviously got overexcited and drunk too much, woke up this morning to find that I'd bought a bottle of red on the way home, attempted to corkscrew through a metal screw cap, given up and gone to bed.

That's the second time recently that I've had a very strong beer on cask that's been excellent, the first being a barley wine by someone from Yorkshire/Lancashire. Sometimes these beers really benefit from cellar temperature casks instead of coming out of a tap ice cold.