Author Topic: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale  (Read 23952 times)

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2020, 12:53:35 PM »
Am I weird because I don't drink beer?

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2020, 01:24:37 PM »
Am I weird because I don't drink beer?

Depends on the reason.

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chveik

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2020, 01:25:36 PM »


B A+ B- B A+ A

chouffe is no b- beer you fool

BlodwynPig

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2020, 01:40:53 PM »
I haven't tried too many mega expensive or mega rare beers but can definitely have a crack at answering this question.

I am first mindful that the craft scene has brought a lot of styles back in fashion, Gose, Porter, Stout etc, and so I will be focusing on styles that have been generally passed over.

In no order at all:

1) Rodenbach Grand Cru / Duchess de Bourgogne


You've jumped the shark, doomlord. Duchess is rank.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2020, 01:41:44 PM »
chouffe is no b- beer you fool

The Carling Black Label of fine Belgian beers, sadly. 1st rate if you've only ever drank Duvel or Leffe, otherwise...

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2020, 01:45:03 PM »
Depends on the reason.

*sharpens knife*
Never got the taste for it, I don't know how Fosters, Carling, Carlsberg get away with selling the stuff, it is vile. Prefer a nice rum or whiskey.

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2020, 02:11:47 PM »

3) Pilsner Urquell (only on tap, hladinka pour)

Easy option. There are loads of other Czech options I could mention and will do below. On their day I prefer them. But the 'mother's milk', a hladinka pour of Pilsner Urquell is the archetypal Pilsner (Urquell meaning original source, and being brewed in Plzen). The depth of flavour, and sheer smoothness matches what is a strongly hopped lager. Every mouthful provides a balanced but rich satisfying hit. It is as pleasant to sit and savour as it is to knock back. Extra points if you have a pint of their unfiltered version, difficult to come by. Germany brew some great lagers, but their standard pilsners come nowhere close to the vibrancy and richness of Czech pilsner which is poured quickly from a side pull tap with a big head on it. I have had some OK craft pilsners but none have showed a full understanding of the Czech method or the importance of the pour.

See also: Poutnik, Benedict, Bernard, Fabian


Hey, SS, have you ever had Amos Pilsner from the Bohem Brewery in  North London? It's made a bunch of Czech lads and it is as good as your description abve, IMO. When all this is over get yrself to their tap room in Bounds Green and I'll buy you a pint. They offer a choice of pour.

chveik

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2020, 02:27:19 PM »
The Carling Black Label of fine Belgian beers, sadly. 1st rate if you've only ever drank Duvel or Leffe, otherwise...

well I'm hardly a connoisseur tbh.

Cuellar

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2020, 02:33:03 PM »
chouffe is no b- beer you fool

I quite like La Chouffe - I've never had their 'IPA' version though, and going by Duvel's Citra IPA I never want to. Why on earth are these respectable Belgian houses making their perfectly fine beers taste like any other hoppy IPA generic bullshit. Utterly degrading and completely pointless.

chveik

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2020, 02:39:18 PM »
I didn't realize it was an IPA. that's indeed a stupid idea.

BlodwynPig

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2020, 02:39:50 PM »
I quite like La Chouffe - I've never had their 'IPA' version though, and going by Duvel's Citra IPA I never want to. Why on earth are these respectable Belgian houses making their perfectly fine beers taste like any other hoppy IPA generic bullshit. Utterly degrading and completely pointless.

That Delerium Argentus is apparently their introduction to IPA - it was not like the shit IPA's you get here...in fact it was like a standard Delerium but with more body and was delicious

BlodwynPig

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2020, 02:43:43 PM »
My uncle goes across to Belgian each year to visit a friend who owns a farm. The friend has been making his own beer recently and my uncle was helping out with some of the process - hops stuff I think. Anyway, each year he drives back with a car full of excellent Belgian beer and his friend's stuff (he's even named one of them after my uncle!).

It was with some mirth that my uncle told me that his friend had sent him a picture of a larder full of beer in Belgian as his own stocks are running close to zero now.

I offered to send him some Carlsberg from the Co-op ;)

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2020, 03:34:09 PM »
Blodwyn must have missed the bit where I acknowledged the style of Duchess tends to be love it or hate it. I am putting it forward so more people discover they love it.

Quote
Hey, SS, have you ever had Amos Pilsner from the Bohem Brewery in  North London

Not from the brewery tap itself but I have drunk Amos and seen their range around. They do a pretty convincing set of Czech style beers by all accounts.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2020, 03:39:49 PM »
I quite like La Chouffe - I've never had their 'IPA' version though, and going by Duvel's Citra IPA I never want to. Why on earth are these respectable Belgian houses making their perfectly fine beers taste like any other hoppy IPA generic bullshit. Utterly degrading and completely pointless.

I don't like this either, it betrays insecurities that they are falling out of fashion and makes them look trend following rather than trend setting. I guess the brewers are genuinely interested and there is a lot of commercial pressure to follow suit.

That said some Belgian pale ale is quite nice, I wouldn't say they were like a generic US craft pales as the combination of ingredients leads to a sort of hybrid end effect.

Taras Boulba by Brasserie de la Senne is the hipster choice for summer drinking currently. I have had it on tap where it was surprisingly nice, but I don't think the bottle is anything special and it is exasperating to see even Belgium with all its own weird styles being railroaded by the pale ale juggernaut. Why the fuck with 1000 blondes, dubbels, Tripel, quads, Lambic, fruits, Oud bruins, red ales, and the weird shit in between would I want to spend my time drinking a session pale in Belgium?

Like a lot of scenes, they prop up their relevance by denigrating older ones as passe... Fashion eh?

BlodwynPig

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2020, 03:48:14 PM »
Blodwyn must have missed the bit where I acknowledged the style of Duchess tends to be love it or hate it. I am putting it forward so more people discover they love it.


Such is the rate of information exchange, I skipped that bit. I apologise.

BlodwynPig

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2020, 03:50:01 PM »
I don't like this either, it betrays insecurities that they are falling out of fashion and makes them look trend following rather than trend setting. I guess the brewers are genuinely interested and there is a lot of commercial pressure to follow suit.

That said some Belgian pale ale is quite nice, I wouldn't say they were like a generic US craft pales as the combination of ingredients leads to a sort of hybrid end effect.

Taras Boulba by Brasserie de la Senne is the hipster choice for summer drinking currently. I have had it on tap where it was surprisingly nice, but I don't think the bottle is anything special and it is exasperating to see even Belgium with all its own weird styles being railroaded by the pale ale juggernaut. Why the fuck with 1000 blondes, dubbels, Tripel, quads, Lambic, fruits, Oud bruins, red ales, and the weird shit in between would I want to spend my time drinking a session pale in Belgium?

Like a lot of scenes, they prop up their relevance by denigrating older ones as passe... Fashion eh?

Blimey! De sessieman heeft de sessie afgewezen

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2020, 04:21:07 PM »
"Your driver is 10 stops away"



Oh DO hurry up, my driver!

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2020, 04:31:36 PM »
Have a drink of beer on me! (that you paid for)

Thanks Pseudo, Shoulds, Blod unt der Gang for the tips. I will try to source some of the buggers which I can have delivered my house. The Westvleteren doesn't have a cool label or any label, though, and so I'm a bit sceptical, to be honest. I will report back.

sardines

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2020, 04:58:52 PM »
Edit: fuck me this is a long post. Apologies

I normally keep to Oscillations but as a Belgian resident of many years can't help but peak my nose in.

A few observations
1. Chouffe on tap is really not a bad drink and harsh to compare it to Leffe.
2. It is true that the bigger breweries jumped heavily on the IPA bandwagon. The worst of it being (as someone who likes the style) that almost none of them offer anything remotely like an IPA (Duvel puts out a single hop every year but buggered if I can taste the difference. Chouffes IPA, labelled Houblon, isn't dreadful but it also tops 9% abv so just feels a waste of time).
3. The criticism of De La Senne is harsh as arguably they grew more out of the 'international' craft scene spirit, not a traditional Belgian one, looking to liven up things "locally" . Contextually this makes total sense as for all of the beer history, most bars (and Belgians) limit themselves to Jupiler, Stella or even Maes (and Duvel of they are looking to get smashed) . Sadly I'm not swimming in freshly poured Saisons and Geuzes, they still need hunting out. I can assure you having something of the style of a Taras or Zinnebir on tap in Brussels is still an exception and certainly was 10 years ago (You cannot get through 10 Westmalles in a night). - - a side note a lot of their beers are worth a try- - Bruxellensis is a fucking great beer, the Reserva even better.
4. If you just keep to the tradition you'll miss a really exciting scene here with Tilquin, Rulles, Fantome, l'Ermitage many other breweries not necessarily denigrating but playing with options they have available.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2020, 05:05:36 PM »
I agree with you, the difference is you're speaking from a country where those beers represent a change from the norm, whereas from a UK perspective, outside of the new fangled sours and saisons (such as those you mention, christ, I was at a Zwanze Day event last year) the best thing Belgium offers are the beers that are unlike the avalanche of pales, imperial stouts and arch-goses we are treated to.

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2020, 05:26:17 PM »
The Westvleteren doesn't have a cool label or any label, though, and so I'm a bit sceptical, to be honest. I will report back.

You'll be lucky. You can only "officially" get it from the Saint Sixtus monastery itself (and occasionally the café across the street) and isn't intended to be sold commercially. Doesn't stop sites like Beer Hawk trying to get away with charging £21 a bottle though (although they never seem to have any in stock).

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2020, 05:43:11 PM »
Mostly joking because I know the history, but yeah, 20 notes...Hmm...If I'm going to die, anyway...

This is my reasoning for everything right now, especially as I still work full time as am key cunt. I'm planning to go out with a bang.

sardines

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2020, 06:38:51 PM »
christ, I was at a Zwanze Day event last year

Ah then trying not to derail the topic. I'm leaning towards getting through the next few weeks by diving into some aged Cantillons and a couple of Drie Fonteinens. It never seems the right time...

Quote
Doesn't stop sites like Beer Hawk trying to get away with charging £21 a bottle though (although they never seem to have any in stock).

I know it is not the idea of the question but my problem with ordering Westvleteren from one of the online 'hawkers' (arf) is that I'm guessing for around the same price you could buy a St Bernadus Abt 12, De Struise Pannepot and a couple of Rocheforts. Sure you don't have the cred of having drank Westvleteren but you've probably had a much better night.

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2020, 06:48:02 PM »
I know it is not the idea of the question but my problem with ordering Westvleteren from one of the online 'hawkers' (arf) is that I'm guessing for around the same price you could buy a St Bernadus Abt 12, De Struise Pannepot and a couple of Rocheforts. Sure you don't have the cred of having drank Westvleteren but you've probably had a much better night.

Tru dat.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2020, 07:37:19 PM »
There is a lot of hype around Westvleteren that seems disproportionately based on scarcity rather. When I hear Americans loudly calling them 'Westy' I just want to murder them all. How casual.

Next time I'm in Belgium I ought to just front up and try one, even if they are usually €10-20 Euros. Only live the once. It's one of only 2 Trappist breweries I haven't tried beer from (Other is Cardena but that's not yet officially recognised)

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2020, 07:42:16 PM »
Thanks for the extra tips here. I've ordered some Rochefort, St Bernardus Tripel, Ayinger Celebrator, Westmalle Tripel, plus some rando choices Timmermans Lambicus Blanche, Lindemans Gueuze Cuvée René and a couple of Chimay Bleue for old times' sake. Used to be a Belgian bar in Wuhan where we'd go most paydays and have Carollus Tripel and Chimay Bleue to escape the local formaldehyde brew for a night. Glorious times when you're used to Snow and Harbin. I'll report back. Cheers for the advice.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2020, 07:57:16 PM »
Budvar is in my view the best of the Czech options. I think the fact it is nearer helles than pilsner in character gives it more of a chance in bottled or canned form. Staropramen fine but the stuff is brewed under license and seems to be all over the place quality wise. One day surprisingly good, the other, pure shit gloop. Pilsner Urquell...? Well... I really don't rate it unless it is tapped. The higher bitterness really works when it's on tap with the thicker smoother texture. I wouldn't choose it.
Nah, the bottle stuff is pretty good. Obviously not anywhere near the quality of the fresh version, but still a safe go-to supermarket drink that has a lot more going for its flavour than your average lager. But yes, Budvar is another great choice.

Quote
If you try M&S, Booths, Waitrose you might find stuff like Hacker Pschorr and Paulaner's helles which are always a step up.
Paulaner's helles isn't great in bottles, but beautiful on tap. Hacker Munchner Hell is superb and definitely worth picking up if you can find it - would love to stumble across one in a supermarket. But then Waitrose have their own brand dunkelweizen, so I suppose that seems like the place.

If cost and availability were no object, what five beers would you recommend someone to try?
Schneider Mein Aventinus - As previously mentioned by anyone with a tongue.
Augustiner Maximator - My choice of the doppelbocks. Maybe the most well-rounded, although the Celebrator comes close. But this is stronger, so go f'rit.
Rochefort - The best balance of their three, compared with the slightly boozy 10 and the underwhelming (by dubbel standards - it's still an amazing beer) 6.
Mariahilfer Vollbier - A beautiful nutty amber lager. I think there's only one guy who actually exports it from Germany, but he does distribute all over the UK.
Reutberger Josefi-Bock - Not had one of these in almost a year. A maibock, so the rich, malty strength of a bock but with a ligher lager texture. A nasty one because you can't identify its slightly hefty strength at all; it goes down as easily as a 4% lager would.

Do Camden make anything good? It's one of those cans of beer that I always notice in hedges or left on the grass after BBQs and so perhaps unfairly I have always assumed it is S4C
Camden Hells is fine. It's a British craft take on the German style, but not done in a 'throw a load of hops at it' type way. Not a patch on an actual helles, but better than most craft lager I've had. I've had a couple of their others and they've been totally generic modern craft stuff: drinkable but totally unexceptional and far from a first choice.


Once all this virus madness is over, the first thing I'm doing is going to a pub and having a pint of something - anything - on cask. Having a shop in town that does great German beer at comparatively low prices, and who deliver, is a lifesaver during the lockdown, but I'm really missing the texture of a proper cask ale.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2020, 08:01:33 PM »
Agreed on Camden's stuff. Very unambitious (apart from commercially) , all their offerings pass the bar quality wise but are nothing more than competent in my view.

purlieu

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2020, 08:04:18 PM »
They did do a strawberry lager last summer which was really bloody nice.

Retinend

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2020, 08:11:23 PM »
/thread

didn't read it but I bet non of you beer plebs ever tasted shit as good as this


https://imgur.com/a/kskzKUW

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