BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I kinda think these places, micropubs and bottle shops, have odd selections and fail to promote beers like that. Far too many have unsold ridiculously expensive Gueuzes taking up a fifth of the fridge. Yes, they pay you £25 if someone buys on but you can make that difference pretty easily by stocking stuff people want. Hell, keep room for a couple of wacky aged gueuzes if you care that much.

Belgian beer is the opposite of what's currently fashionable really. They are low on info about what you're getting vs craft which saturates you with factoids about its creation. The beer itself is considerably sweeter, less hop focused and you won't get any cool points unless it's one of the few that craft beer fans rate (De La Senne, the original Gueuze brewers and blenders, De Struise etc).

[Abnormal Palm]

Scum cunts

[hummingofevil]

Girlfriend bought back 2 boxes of Punk IPA for out Friday party night. Oh what a shame. I can remember my first ever can of Punk in 4 pack and it felt like the Michael Angelo's god reaching down and touching me with fruity lovelyness. Never had anything like it before. This is just a can of pure meh. Booze for booze sakes.

[phes]

Has it really changed that much since they started canning? I recall bottles in the early days being pretty fair but the punk and Elvis Juice I've tasted in the last year or so are awful. Washed out, metallic, beer flavoured drink

Best supermarket beer they did was when tesco was selling hardcore IPA (9.2%) under their own branding, 3 for £5. Around the time of the Brazilian WC. That seems to have been replaced by Mr President, which is acceptable but not quite as good. It may even be the same beer as I've just realised it's the same abv. I would buy this and top it with a lighter beer like a pilsner over drinking their canned beers. It's head and shoulders above them

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

As far as Brewdog is concerned they just need to make it taste of more than Carlsberg and a generation will be buying it from now to kingdom come. For that group it represented progress, regardless of the fact US beers had been brewing very similar beers for a decade earlier. To give it its dues, when you think of a beer that was a touchstone moment for a mass of people in the UK realising they didn't have to drink the very shittest lager all the time, it's Punk IPA. It didn't hit me with the same power as by the mid 00s I was getting into German and Belgian beer, and basically already liked a range of British ale. But for some raised on party packs of lagers it will have synchronised perfectly with their desire to have something different.

[phes]

It's happening already. I have several friends who for a reason that I don't know and isn't my business to know, find themselves at the mercy of whatever beer their (non beer drinking) partner brings back with the shopping. It's always cans of brewdog. Perfect storm of getting their marketing right and as you say, making beer that's better than all the worst beers.

[Ferris]

I liked the punk IPA I had in the UK, though that was probably 6 (?) years ago at this point. Thought it was a perfectly serviceable west coast IPA, and I've had some stinkers over the years.

Presumably since they got really big everything has turned to shit?

[phes]

Can't speak for the keg punk but both the cans I've had in the last couple of years have been very poor indeed. It just doesn't taste alive any more, like a microwave meal. Worse actually, it tastes bad. That said, a lot of water has passed under the bridge since I first tried the drink in the early 2010s, so I can't discount personal taste development.

I'd be interested to taste-test the canned beer against the kegged beer they serve at their outlets. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way supermarkets work and the quality of their equipment should enable them to serve a more consistent, tightly controlled product than in early years? If the product has got worse then it's going to be related to decisions or problems with scaling at the production end? My guess would be that they've had to change the recipe to meet the enormous production demands, to make it more accessible, or both. It's probably the hops that have changed as to meet contractual demand of brewing a beer on that scale requires a hop that's economical, secure to source and consistent in quality.

[Abnormal Palm]

I used to get a four-pack of Punk IPA and quite happily knock it back while doing something else, certainly not savouring it or thinking about tasting notes, but enjoying a bit of bite and tropical citrus. It was a good Sainsbury's Local choice for me. It actually has/had some taste, better than the standard lagers as Shoulders said and I do like a hoppy IPA.

It's simplistic and now maybe it is a bit bland, I've not had one for months, but as a (kinda) session IPA over the course of an evening, I would quite happily choose that. I would occasionally get a few bottles of English ale, Landlord or whatever, but I find them pretty bland compared to what you'd get in a good pub. I mostly stopped buying Punk because I stopped drinking at home (for several months before lockdown) and before that, I would almost always drink wine at home, anyway. Would I now choose to buy some when I'm doing the weekly/fortnightly shop? Not when I've got Barnardo in the cellar, know what I mean? I did just want to give it a little nod, though. Pour one out for Punk.

[thugler]

Girlfriend bought back 2 boxes of Punk IPA for out Friday party night. Oh what a shame. I can remember my first ever can of Punk in 4 pack and it felt like the Michael Angelo's god reaching down and touching me with fruity lovelyness. Never had anything like it before. This is just a can of pure meh. Booze for booze sakes.

This goes for all Brewdog I've had recently. Something has definitely changed in their brewing in my view. I remember punk, 5am saint, dead pony club all being pretty nice and now they all taste of nothing. Don't get me started on their 'lost lager', seemingly an attempt to create a more characterless brew than coors.

[phes]

Didn't mind the lost lager at all. Would choose bottled Urquell over it and a couple of other supermarket pilsners but Asda's selection is the worst.

brewdog meet after the lockdown then (free beer here)

https://www.brewdog.com/uk/whenallofthisisover

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It's competent in my view, certainly nowhere near Coors. It competes with and beats a few premium lagers. There's something downright funny about Lost Lager's existence though, from this arrogant seemingly fury fuelled outfit aggressively marketing heavily hopped ale in efforts to supplant macro lager producers to churning it out themselves, not to mention taking up supermarket shelf space with packs of cans.

Yes they raised the bar but now they seem content to lower it so long as they continue their growth.

They have done some nice beers over the years but the general standard, in my opinion, was only ever between two, three or four star, and even the four star stuff has gone downhill or disappeared entirely. Not a range worth getting fussed over when they're such an obnoxious set of cunts.

[DrGreggles]

Beer Hawk have had a restock.

[Ferris]

Can't speak for the keg punk but both the cans I've had in the last couple of years have been very poor indeed. It just doesn't taste alive any more, like a microwave meal. Worse actually, it tastes bad. That said, a lot of water has passed under the bridge since I first tried the drink in the early 2010s, so I can't discount personal taste development.

I'd be interested to taste-test the canned beer against the kegged beer they serve at their outlets. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way supermarkets work and the quality of their equipment should enable them to serve a more consistent, tightly controlled product than in early years? If the product has got worse then it's going to be related to decisions or problems with scaling at the production end? My guess would be that they've had to change the recipe to meet the enormous production demands, to make it more accessible, or both. It's probably the hops that have changed as to meet contractual demand of brewing a beer on that scale requires a hop that's economical, secure to source and consistent in quality.

Yeah that's my guess. I'm sure it's still fine, I'm not knocking it or anything but I see it's getting a lot of shrugs and/or dislike and my recollection was that it was alright. I'd get it again if I saw it and there wasn't much else going.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Should probably remark on the Polish stuff that's landed:

Kurna Chata (4.7% smoked stout) - ****
My partner had most of it and really enjoyed it. The low gravity works well with smoked stuff, as anyone who has touched Spezial or Schlenkerla would agree. The smoke was well infused with the beer so it had a satisfying, almost restorative character.

Nosferatu (6.7% Black IPA) - *** and a half
Emphasis on blackness rather than hops. Cascadian dark ale, Black IPA's synonym would more suitably sum it up. The bottom of the bottle was thick with sediment so once that got poured in the texture improved markedly. A good nice one.

Smietanka (5.6% Hefeweizen) - ***
Bright colour and really cloudy. Initially a trad thick, frothy, banana-clove wheat beer, but once the head disappeared I was surprised how much it changed, becoming a little sickly and insipid towards the end.

Rycerz (5.7% 'Jasne Pelne', full flavoured pale lager) - *** and a half
I tend to enjoy the stronger special lagers the Czechs do on occasion. This is how Polish lager should be really. Hearty, strong, made with local hops but also fresh and well balanced. I would take this over Tyskie/Zywiec any day. Golden, faintly honeyed, cerealy flavour propped up by some slightly different but not off-putting hops.

[phes]

Why do so many people on here have such disdain for pales and IPAs? Shoulders, you're not allowed to use the word 'gloop'.

I've been thinking more about what's caused me to be down on IPA's and some pales. It's more than the NEIPA revolution and relative obscurity of dry and bitter IPA beers, for which I can only really lay blame at the door of indies. Bgmnts and thugler mentioned the ubiquity of stupidly named and very average ipas and pales in the supermarket. It's true that it appears everyone (brewers) is jumping on the same boat and supermarkets are responding to this, but if we broke these beers into ownership or investment then we'd see a consolidation through conglomerates and investors. These investments and acquisitions have been won by independents with strong flagship IPA and Pale Ales and as we know, with the exception of a handful breweries who have managed successful partial (e.g founders) or full sell-outs (e.g Magic Rock) the endpoint of this is average or shit beer. I mentioned earlier that if you know what to look for then it's easy to disregard the rubbish, but i've realised that apart from a handful of exceptions, i've totally lost track of what is owned by who, and where it's (still) produced. Both of which are helpful indicators of the ideology behind the brewer and capacity to keep control of this.  I guess what i'm getting at is that it's become much more difficult to discern which beers are made by brewers who are fighting for their product to exist within the market and which beers are owned by conglomerates and investors looking to aggressively control the market. And IPAs and pales are at the center of that struggle. No surprise given their popularity, but it's fatiguing as a consumer.

This isn't to say the craft revolution didn't raise the bottom rung in a the macro market. I think it did.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It definitely has raised the bar. More styles available nearly everywhere which sells beer isn't a bad thing. I think IPA and keg ale is relatively novel for the mainstream and its audience is young. It has also set a precedent that beer should have a clear flavour rather than simply ''the refreshing crisp taste of X Lager''. Naturally it will take a while until the audience develops a clearer idea of the "bottom end/high end" as there is with real ale and lagers.

However, it definitely muddies the waters when you see good breweries selling out and their new big boy macro-brew owners retaining the branding. It took a while for me to persuade people that the likes of Neck Oil, High Wire and Punk were nowhere near as good as they used to be.

There are also issues where small brewers goods are utterly overrated (holds breath - I'm going to say it: Northern Monk).

[phes]

I rate Northern Monk but don't really understand the god-like status they have in independent circles. Heathen is an excellent IPA, I'm lead to believe their core stout is/was excellent and eternal and the new world IPA are both very decent supermarket fare. But I've had a number of their small batch sours and IPA and little has caught my imagination. There's a lot though, and you probably are much more familiar with their dark beers, having frequented their bar.

I haven't had high wire in the last year or two. I remember when it was available on cask and keg and when well kept and fresh the cask beer knocked the keg into a cocked hat. One of those beers where its potential has been stunted in the pursuit of consistency. Same applies to Cannonball to a lesser degree, though that's one that needed to be dispensed on the cooler side

[king_tubby]

I've said this before, but the core Northern Monk range is one of my local go to beers, New World, Eternal, Faith are all decent. But the dicking about stuff is highly unnecessary.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

don't really understand the god-like status they have in independent circles

They have done some very enjoyable dark ales, and their patrons project beers have been good.

Their pales though, perhaps over familiarity on my part as I work very close by. They are like working your way through the menu at an average indian restaurant. After a while you just start noticing the same base sauce. Gloopy tropical fruit served ice cold. Not the sort of subtlety that's needed. Really can't stand Eternal, just unpleasant bitterness shoved in your face at freezer temperature. don't see the appeal. Faith and New World are OK, wouldn't go further than that.

Their concession to average joe drinkers, the helles lager Archie is an embarrassment to the name. How they still managed to make it taste like the pale ales I have no idea.

[phes]

Agree with the base sauce analogy, but against IPA 'session' supermarket options that are available in that bracket (brew dog, vocation, fourpure, beavertown etc) they often edge drinkability for me. Much like a British Indian Curry it's exactly the kind of IPA I'd choose if I'm feeling gluttonous and don't want to somehow dishonor something like Sierra Nevada Pale Ale by pounding it down to born slippy

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Following on from the decent Hansla by Schlenkerla, there is another low alcohol range opening in Bamberg: Heinzlein

https://heinzlein.de/#top

So far offering a helles and a dunkelweizen. Some information about the heritage, which is also based on the idea that once of a day beer was the clean alternative to water, and typically low in alcohol.

Not even marked on Google yet but claims to be based at a 15th century brewery Hellerbrau.

[hummingofevil]

It just doesn't taste alive any more, like a microwave meal.

Perfect. The first ones I had were right at the beginning so probably 10 years ago but remember being blown away by the fact it has loads of nice fruity flavours that were both recognisable and blended together beautifully (and my palate is pretty shit - my I have drank plenty of ace beer in my time but my go to question is always - is this nice?) but the cans I have here are just booze. Nothing interesting about them at all. I can't remember if they still did good Punk after they moved to big production (I think they did but this is tripe).

Magic Rock is a good comparison maybe (though they are still way smaller than Brewdog). A can of supermarket Magic Rock is always fine. A 3 star beer at worst. But visiting the brewery in Huddersfield and that shit is glorious. I wonder how much brewers who have upscaled still judge their output by what they drink at source before it gets transported and stuck on shelves. Nothing beats drinking craft at source. Almasty in Tyneside, Bermondsey, Black Jack in Manchester. My fav craft drinking memories have always been at tap room openings.

[BlodwynPig]

...still in preparation...ffs

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

...still in preparation...ffs

I believe pancreas' consignment from Speciaal Bierpakket arrived promptly as did mine. I can recommend them if speed is of the essence (also they have a good range and similarly priced, if not slightly cheaper)

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Some more Polish beer to update you on

Wrezel Pszeniczne Jasne (Wheat beer, 4.9%) - ***
Nice enough, fresh, but along the Polish end of wheatbeers, ie more light and lemony than the wheatier hefty Bavarian ones.

Komes Poczworny Bursztynowy - (Belgian Quadrupel, 10%) - ****
Remarkable they sell 10% beer by the half litre, bless those Poles. Given the strength this had quite a delicate aftertaste. Boozy in the mouth but slips down delicately. Caramel, werthers original type smoothness. The nearest Quad to this would probably be La Trappe. Would drink again (slowly)

Maryensztadt Polskie Ale - (Red ale? Pale Ale? Saison? Dunno mate. 5.5%) - *****
This was chosen more out of hope than expectation - and even then not much hope. Yet it has been my favourite one so far. Reddish, unfiltered with a thick but a floaty light body. Soft, fruity, herbally to an extent and with a vague farmhousey funk which with the hoppy finish adds up to a fantastic drink. The only beer I have had similar is Jovaru at Snekutis in Lithuania

Czyste Zloto - (Czech style Pilsner,, 5%) - **** and a half
The Poles have a big soft spot for Czech beers, and this one seems to be taking the 'if you can't beat them (they can't), join them' philosophy. Unfiltered, relatively strong at 5%, a 12 or 13 degree, golden colour, so alive and vibrant, every mouthful was a fuckin' pleasure. Brewed in Torun, one of the few spots I haven't been to in Poland but would like to.

Warminskie Rewolucje - (Helles? Pale lager anyway. 5.2%) - ** and a half
Wasn't expecting marvels with this one. It met my expectations anyway. Nothing too much wrong, it hits its marks. The hop choice, albeit local, is just not my thing. It ends up being both a little too verdant and bitter yet too sickly at the same time.

Pinta Hop Pokus - (Black IPA, 6.8%) - *** and a half
A very solid black IPA, an example I would give, it was that archetypal. Probably lacking something to really make it stand out but certainly fresh, enjoyable and successful.

AleBrowar - Lady Blanche - (Witbeer, 4.5%) - ***
A bit like the common mistakes with hefeweizen, this brewery have churned out a competent wit ale but not more than that. The best ones manage this melange of almost cloudy, spicy lightness, the average ones like this taste thinner, citric, and the head disappears quickly. It was so boilerplate I wouldn't be at all surprised if it just follows a stock online brewing recipe.

Zamkowy Raciborskie - (Dark Lager - 6.3%) - ***
This is the kind of beer Poland was probably more known for 20 years ago. Aside the strong pale lagers, the even stronger dark ones. Drinks not dissimilar to a doppelbock, except for a slight lagery tang. Liquorice, very very black, a faint herbal quality, like those Halls cough sweets. This was what I expected (and slightly feared).

[Chollis]

Yes, the Dutch have come through for me. Package delivered this morning:

1 x Augustijn blond
1 x Leffe tripel
1 x Bernardus Pater 6
1 x Augustijn Grand Cru
1 x Gulden Draak Quad
1 x Gentse Tripel
1 x Floreffe Blonde
1 x Ename Pater  *
1 x Corsendonk Agnus
1 x Petrus Tripel  *
1 x Paljas Blonde *
1 x Val-Dieu Brune *
1 x Rochefort 8
1 x Ter Dolen Tripel  *
1 x Tripel Kannunik
1 x Bernardus 12
1 x Tripel D'Anvers
1 x Tongerlo Tripel *
1 x Broeder Jacob Tripel *
1 x De Meester Tripel *
1 x Weihenstephaner Vitus
1 x Deugniet Strong Blonde *
1 x Straffe Hendrick Tripel
1 x Gageleer Gruit *
1 x Gerardus Blond *
1 x Bink Blond *
1 x Hertog Jan Grand Prestige *
1 x Gerardus Tripel *
1 x Moeder Overste Tripel *

(* I haven't tried these ones before)

Where'd you get that from? I'm a complete pleb trying to order this stuff but I think Tripel is my favourite so that looks worthy

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://www.speciaalbierpakket.nl/

You're in luck with these lads, they have a really big selection of tripels.

Site is relatively easy to navigate. Keep an eye out for the really cheap ones as they may be 250ml rather than 330ml bottles.

You pay shipping costs per shipment, which in their case is 30 bottles. It makes sense to fill that, ie, to order 30 and lower the cost per bottles, but that might not suit.

That little lot you quoted above cost around £72 which I can confirm from having drunk the fuckers was well worth it and cheaper than buying them in the UK (even where available).

I really strongly recommend Ter Dolen Tripel, Kannunik Tripel and Meester Tripel if you haven't had them.

[Chollis]

Lovely, cheers. Just ordered 30x bottles of different Tripels/Blondes/Saisons/Wits I've never had before. can't wait to get cunted on the good stuff

[Abnormal Palm]

GRAVE RAPER vs. Bernardus Pater 6

Guangdong La Mer vs. Enema Pater